S1 vs S2 - Time for a Change?
Discussion
I'm hoping someone might be able to offer some experience here.
A few years ago I had an S2 Elise SC. Loved it but sold it to move abroad for a while. Then I came back home and had an S2 Exige (supercharged version). Unfortunately that car is no longer with us for reasons I won't go into.
I'm now left looking for a replacement and can't get my mind off an S1. What I'd really love is a Sport 160, but I'm well aware these cars are pretty hard to come by.
I've never driven an S1. Can anyone offer a comparison between supercharged S2 cars and say an S1 111S or a Sport 160? I imagine there will be a sizeable performance drop but does this detract from the experience? I found an S2 111R a bit frustrating because you have to really rev them to unlock the performance. Is this an issue with any of the S1 cars?
Thanks!
A few years ago I had an S2 Elise SC. Loved it but sold it to move abroad for a while. Then I came back home and had an S2 Exige (supercharged version). Unfortunately that car is no longer with us for reasons I won't go into.
I'm now left looking for a replacement and can't get my mind off an S1. What I'd really love is a Sport 160, but I'm well aware these cars are pretty hard to come by.
I've never driven an S1. Can anyone offer a comparison between supercharged S2 cars and say an S1 111S or a Sport 160? I imagine there will be a sizeable performance drop but does this detract from the experience? I found an S2 111R a bit frustrating because you have to really rev them to unlock the performance. Is this an issue with any of the S1 cars?
Thanks!
Hey Stu,
The S2 was a big evolution forward from the S1 and a correction of all the "mistakes" made in the S1. It is a much better car. Have a look here on the documentary of the Lotus Elise. Very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YM5oAasA
The S2 was a big evolution forward from the S1 and a correction of all the "mistakes" made in the S1. It is a much better car. Have a look here on the documentary of the Lotus Elise. Very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YM5oAasA
Jodele said:
Hey Stu,
The S2 was a big evolution forward from the S1 and a correction of all the "mistakes" made in the S1. It is a much better car. Have a look here on the documentary of the Lotus Elise. Very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YM5oAasA
The S2 was a big evolution forward from the S1 and a correction of all the "mistakes" made in the S1. It is a much better car. Have a look here on the documentary of the Lotus Elise. Very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YM5oAasA
Jodele said:
Hey Stu,
The S2 was a big evolution forward from the S1 and a correction of all the "mistakes" made in the S1. It is a much better car. Have a look here on the documentary of the Lotus Elise. Very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YM5oAasA
Thanks I'll have a look at that. Build quality etc aside I'm wondering if I'd miss the performance of an SC car. The S2 was a big evolution forward from the S1 and a correction of all the "mistakes" made in the S1. It is a much better car. Have a look here on the documentary of the Lotus Elise. Very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YM5oAasA
I've just sold my 2009 Elise SC which replaced a Sport 160 (which replaced an S2 Elise S 134).
The SC was just a better car by a mile compared to the 160 but this was mainly due to the drivetrain. The 160 mapping and general driveability was terrible (even with verniers and an Emerald). Most people think this a characterful but I just found it frustrating and ultimately made the car feel slower.
Never meet your heroes and all that
If you're used to a Toyota engined car you will hate a Sport 160 BUT (and this is a big but!) an S1 can be a revelation to drive provided you choose wisely. A 111S is great and in 'the real world' will be very close to an SC, a 180bhp S1 will outrun an SC just about everywhere and a n/a Honda will walk away...
You can make the S1 and S2 very similar spec wise but the most noticeable thing is the lack of weight and the 'special' feeling of an S1.
I sold the 160 as I hated it in the end, I sold the SC as it was a good allrounder but ultimately it didn't excite, inspire or feel special (even with 3 way Nitrons, full 2bular system, uprated brakes, shear panel etc etc).
To cut a long story short I had a long drive in a good mates Honda S1 and I'm now in the final part of a ground up S1 rebuild including a K20 conversion.
For me personally it was the excitement, the noise, the visceral almost race car feeling and the razor sharp turn in of an S1 with a K20 which made it irresistible.
You probably won't need to go that far but as always go drive a few and see what you think. A 118bhp S1 is still a hoot as is a 135 or 111S so see if you can drive these too. Don't get hung up on a 160 as personally I found it to be the weakest car in the line up (awaits flaming!)
The SC was just a better car by a mile compared to the 160 but this was mainly due to the drivetrain. The 160 mapping and general driveability was terrible (even with verniers and an Emerald). Most people think this a characterful but I just found it frustrating and ultimately made the car feel slower.
Never meet your heroes and all that
If you're used to a Toyota engined car you will hate a Sport 160 BUT (and this is a big but!) an S1 can be a revelation to drive provided you choose wisely. A 111S is great and in 'the real world' will be very close to an SC, a 180bhp S1 will outrun an SC just about everywhere and a n/a Honda will walk away...
You can make the S1 and S2 very similar spec wise but the most noticeable thing is the lack of weight and the 'special' feeling of an S1.
I sold the 160 as I hated it in the end, I sold the SC as it was a good allrounder but ultimately it didn't excite, inspire or feel special (even with 3 way Nitrons, full 2bular system, uprated brakes, shear panel etc etc).
To cut a long story short I had a long drive in a good mates Honda S1 and I'm now in the final part of a ground up S1 rebuild including a K20 conversion.
For me personally it was the excitement, the noise, the visceral almost race car feeling and the razor sharp turn in of an S1 with a K20 which made it irresistible.
You probably won't need to go that far but as always go drive a few and see what you think. A 118bhp S1 is still a hoot as is a 135 or 111S so see if you can drive these too. Don't get hung up on a 160 as personally I found it to be the weakest car in the line up (awaits flaming!)
I love the drive train in my 111s, VVC and a short box is a fantastic combo. Not much in it in a straight line with a 111r... until you run out of gears! Perfect for mountain road drives.
Only way to know is drive some S1 variants. That in itself maybe tough though.
The brakes on the S1 swayed me away from a toyota car in the end.
Only way to know is drive some S1 variants. That in itself maybe tough though.
The brakes on the S1 swayed me away from a toyota car in the end.
Tickle said:
The brakes on the S1 swayed me away from a toyota car in the end.
The brakes were ultimately what make me stick with a K-series car, but K-series doesn't have to mean S1. Also worth noting that while the Elise got generally heavier over its life, the big step wasn't S1 to S2 but rather K-series to Toyota. Late S1s weigh pretty much the same as early K-series S2s.
Indeed I've wondered about a Honda conversion. Again as for the 111R though I wonder if the VTEC has to be revved to get to the power? I think I'd find this quite frustrating to drive.
Basically yes, it sounds like I need to drive a few variants. I'm up in Edinburgh and there aren't too many for sale around here at the moment! Some travelling ahead I think. I must say the more I've thought about an S1 the more it appeals (in principle anyway).
Basically yes, it sounds like I need to drive a few variants. I'm up in Edinburgh and there aren't too many for sale around here at the moment! Some travelling ahead I think. I must say the more I've thought about an S1 the more it appeals (in principle anyway).
The Bandit said:
IThe 160 mapping and general driveability was terrible (even with verniers and an Emerald). Most people think this a characterful but I just found it frustrating and ultimately made the car feel slower.
Never meet your heroes and all that
I owned a Sport 160 after a mildly modified standad S1, and I have to say that I agree with this. The 160 was great if you could keep it on the boil, but just frustrating and amateurish the rest of the time. I never bonded with it as much as I did my earlier S1. Traded it in on a '70's Elan Sprint, in the end.Never meet your heroes and all that
Had an S2 111S from new in 2002, owned for three years and rate it as one of the best cars I've had from a road driving perspective.
Fast forward 15 yrs or so and now have a S1 standard spec 118bhp, shared with a mate as our track car. Only mod is an ITG induction kit (apart from harnesses and Corbeau LM seats).
If it's slower than the 111S you don't notice it on the road. On track, the lower output is only noticable on long straights.
They are so involving, so raw, so much fun, I'd say it's the best drive of any car I've had (incl F430, 458, GT3 etc etc).
If I was buying now I'd get an S1 in as good condition I could find, maybe with a few upgrades, could be tempted by a Honda conversion, but basically, if you love driving, connection with steering / gearbox / pedal inputs....you can't go wrong if you get a well looked after car.
I doubt we'll ever sell ours, hope to drive it until I can't get in or out any more
Fast forward 15 yrs or so and now have a S1 standard spec 118bhp, shared with a mate as our track car. Only mod is an ITG induction kit (apart from harnesses and Corbeau LM seats).
If it's slower than the 111S you don't notice it on the road. On track, the lower output is only noticable on long straights.
They are so involving, so raw, so much fun, I'd say it's the best drive of any car I've had (incl F430, 458, GT3 etc etc).
If I was buying now I'd get an S1 in as good condition I could find, maybe with a few upgrades, could be tempted by a Honda conversion, but basically, if you love driving, connection with steering / gearbox / pedal inputs....you can't go wrong if you get a well looked after car.
I doubt we'll ever sell ours, hope to drive it until I can't get in or out any more
Stu-C123 said:
Indeed I've wondered about a Honda conversion. Again as for the 111R though I wonder if the VTEC has to be revved to get to the power? I think I'd find this quite frustrating to drive.
The K20 is quite a torquey engine for a naturally aspirated two litre - it's only got about 15% less than the supercharged Toyota lump in the Elise. You can always supercharge a Honda if you want more. 
Edited by kambites on Sunday 11th March 10:13
kambites said:
Stu-C123 said:
Indeed I've wondered about a Honda conversion. Again as for the 111R though I wonder if the VTEC has to be revved to get to the power? I think I'd find this quite frustrating to drive.
The K20 is quite a torquey engine for a naturally aspirated two litre - it's only got about 15% less than the supercharged Toyota lump in the Elise. You can always supercharge a Honda if you want more. Edited by kambites on Sunday 11th March 10:13
Have to offer a little defence of the 160, they can be a bit of a marmite car I think.
I had one (a WVTA one), sold it for an engine converted S1 in a quest for 'upgrading' bit missed the 160.
Bought a VX220 Turbo for something different again and, after trying the Boxster S which was just a bit boring. The Tubby was great and I could definitely recommend the experience, but again was still missing the purity of the 160 so when a full fat unmodified and lumpy SVA came up for sale I snapped it up - and I just love it.
As usual, after a few years I start eyeing up for upgrades again but I think the only way I can genuinely upgrade and not miss it would be to go V6 (Lotus) or V8 (totally different). I certainly wouldn't swap it for a 111s, 111R, Honda, Audi - I can understand people not getting them, but I can understand more those that are addicted to those bits that make it the most special S1 Elise.
I had one (a WVTA one), sold it for an engine converted S1 in a quest for 'upgrading' bit missed the 160.
Bought a VX220 Turbo for something different again and, after trying the Boxster S which was just a bit boring. The Tubby was great and I could definitely recommend the experience, but again was still missing the purity of the 160 so when a full fat unmodified and lumpy SVA came up for sale I snapped it up - and I just love it.
As usual, after a few years I start eyeing up for upgrades again but I think the only way I can genuinely upgrade and not miss it would be to go V6 (Lotus) or V8 (totally different). I certainly wouldn't swap it for a 111s, 111R, Honda, Audi - I can understand people not getting them, but I can understand more those that are addicted to those bits that make it the most special S1 Elise.
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff