Elise SC brakes , what should they be like.
Discussion
So I’ve had a Porsche Boxster 968 before and never really liked the brakes on that , replace it with a 2012 S3 SC and the brakes feel even worse, just feel under powered and if I have to jam the anchors on I seem to gradually come to a stop. I have no reference point , mr other half has a little twingo and the brakes feel so much better , I have real confidence in them unlike the Elise , it’s been like it from new, I had new fluid fitted and recently new brembo pads and it feels exactly the same , are the standard brakes just crap, or am I overly used to heavily servo assisted brakes ? It has also been serviced by B&C and they picked up dropped off the car and obviously thought it was all good, any thoughts on what I should do, maybe someone who know what they should be like could try them out for me ,
They where exactly the same before I had the pads changed, the pads where recommenced bu the owner of Elise parts as good road pads that can handle a bit of track so he knows his stuff , maybe I will ask him to try the car and see what he thinks, it might just be me but I would think a light car with good brakes should pull up very quickly , pads are better when warm so I will check and see what’s fitted
You can feel the abs doing it’s thing but it feels like when it’s kicking in that the car could be braking much much harder , the twingo will put you through the windscreen the lotus just feels like brake fade when the ABS cuts in , I had a crappy mondeo for a few months that had some weird emergency braking system and that really would stop you quick, maybe I will time how long it takes to go from 60-0mph , feels like a week
matjk said:
You can feel the abs doing it’s thing but it feels like when it’s kicking in that the car could be braking much much harder , the twingo will put you through the windscreen the lotus just feels like brake fade when the ABS cuts in , I had a crappy mondeo for a few months that had some weird emergency braking system and that really would stop you quick, maybe I will time how long it takes to go from 60-0mph , feels like a week
Something doesn't sound right, my S3 stops supersharp. These are light cars and stopping quickly is one of their strengths.My 111R stops well. It always did, but subjectively it stops better since I fitted Exige wheels and wider front tyres. It is calibrated so that you can meter out the braking force, though - most cars appear to be designed with the (probably correct) assumption that if you are braking hard you are performing an emergency stop and need maximum retardation (and many react to the inputs on the pedals to guess when you are doing an emergency stop and apply full braking).
I had an Elise SC from new and thought the brakes were the best of any road car I've driven, though you do need to know how to use them.
The Elise is a car which really rewards someone with good knowledge / experience of weight transfer. Most modern cars insulate you from this so unless you've driven a similar car (or an old one) then it's quite possible you're not used to it.
If you want to brake quickly in an Elise the technique is to 'pre-load' the front tyres by lightly braking before applying maximum force. What you're doing is shifting the weight over the front wheels, effectively pressing them into the tarmac. When this weight transfer is done then apply the maximum force. Braking this way will take a surprising amount of distance off stopping distance.
If you don't brake in this manner the front wheels are light (the small amount of weight in an Elise is significantly over the rear wheels) and are likely to lock up triggering the ABS. Brake correctly and you'll likely never feel the ABS - I certainly can't remember triggering it during my 5 years with the car.
I live in Switzerland and most of my driving with the Elise was on passes. When stuck behind someone one of the best places to overtake was when the car in front started braking for a downhill hairpin. I knew at that point I could accelerate, pass and brake before the corner given how good the brakes were. For me the brakes on an Elise are one of the best things.
If you want to really learn the finer points about braking, weight transfer and how tyres react I can recommend one of Don Palmer's courses.
I have fond memories of B&C with Subarus in the 90s so can't imagine they'd return a car without good-performing brakes.
Only thing that might be worth considering is that the tyres are old. Even if they're not worn-out my experience is that tyres go hard after about 3 years. This can be an issue with a car like a Lotus which might have been used occasionally on a summer weekend.
There is always a weak-point. If you can feel the ABS then any more force on the brakes would be wasted as the weak-point is the contact between the road and the tyre which implies lack of weight and / or an issue with the tyres (or something wrong with the suspension meaning you're wheels aren't making good contact). If you can't get the ABS to kick in it means that there is an option to apply greater force at the brake.
The Elise is a car which really rewards someone with good knowledge / experience of weight transfer. Most modern cars insulate you from this so unless you've driven a similar car (or an old one) then it's quite possible you're not used to it.
If you want to brake quickly in an Elise the technique is to 'pre-load' the front tyres by lightly braking before applying maximum force. What you're doing is shifting the weight over the front wheels, effectively pressing them into the tarmac. When this weight transfer is done then apply the maximum force. Braking this way will take a surprising amount of distance off stopping distance.
If you don't brake in this manner the front wheels are light (the small amount of weight in an Elise is significantly over the rear wheels) and are likely to lock up triggering the ABS. Brake correctly and you'll likely never feel the ABS - I certainly can't remember triggering it during my 5 years with the car.
I live in Switzerland and most of my driving with the Elise was on passes. When stuck behind someone one of the best places to overtake was when the car in front started braking for a downhill hairpin. I knew at that point I could accelerate, pass and brake before the corner given how good the brakes were. For me the brakes on an Elise are one of the best things.
If you want to really learn the finer points about braking, weight transfer and how tyres react I can recommend one of Don Palmer's courses.
I have fond memories of B&C with Subarus in the 90s so can't imagine they'd return a car without good-performing brakes.
Only thing that might be worth considering is that the tyres are old. Even if they're not worn-out my experience is that tyres go hard after about 3 years. This can be an issue with a car like a Lotus which might have been used occasionally on a summer weekend.
There is always a weak-point. If you can feel the ABS then any more force on the brakes would be wasted as the weak-point is the contact between the road and the tyre which implies lack of weight and / or an issue with the tyres (or something wrong with the suspension meaning you're wheels aren't making good contact). If you can't get the ABS to kick in it means that there is an option to apply greater force at the brake.
Edited by chandrew on Tuesday 12th February 08:58
My un-servo'd brakes need a bit of heat before they perform well, and they do perform well (road use). The first junction when I haven't drove the Elise for a while catches me out! Have a go in another local Elise and see if they compare similar. They should stop the car well as there is not much to stop.
Thanks for the reply’s guys. The brakes seem to be getting much better which I’m pretty sure is me just re calibrating to a car that is not hugely servoed. They definitely need heat to get going, hopefully I can try another Elise just to be sure, any volunteers in Hertfordshire, you can try my SC to compare 
Another thing to bear in mind is that most "normal" cars will dive under braking hard, which gives the driver a greater impression of deceleration. The Lotus dives very little. There have been a couple of times when I've felt as if the brakes on my Lotus haven't worked well in hard braking but when I've considered the speed shed in the distance I've realised that they've done pretty well 
Time seems to slow down in some situations such as, in my case, when a tractor decides to turn right into a field without indicating as you're about to pass it on a long straight road.
And as others have said, lots of small hatchbacks have a high amount of brake assistant. One year when I came back from holiday, having been driving a horrid little hatchback hire car for a couple of weeks, when I used the brakes on my own car when leaving the airport car park I thought the brakes had failed - but of course it just needed a sensible amount of pressure.
Time seems to slow down in some situations such as, in my case, when a tractor decides to turn right into a field without indicating as you're about to pass it on a long straight road.And as others have said, lots of small hatchbacks have a high amount of brake assistant. One year when I came back from holiday, having been driving a horrid little hatchback hire car for a couple of weeks, when I used the brakes on my own car when leaving the airport car park I thought the brakes had failed - but of course it just needed a sensible amount of pressure.
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