Exige MOT failed - garage unable to jack the car up
Discussion
stevemcs said:
The key part is the test was abandoned which means the existing mot is still in place, however if they had completed the test and failed it then it should not leave the test centre until it had been repaired.
The result literally says "fail" in section 7 (which is the result section). It doesn't mention abandonment.Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
CraigyMc said:
The result literally says "fail" in section 7 (which is the result section). It doesn't mention abandonment.
Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
No I agree, with that piece of paper i would take that as a fail and do not drive as highlighted in the bold section. However given the test was not completed then i wouldn't have expected to be given a fail sheet either, the test wasn't completed so whatever MOT was in place should still be in effect, I would expect the MOT to confirm that to you or if in doubt ring the DVSA for clarification, it shouldn't be for the customer to deal with. I wouldn't expect you to have to pay either, it wasn't your fault the test was aborted. Given you had paid I would expect the MOT centre to carry out a free test.Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
We have seen a couple of local test stations give customer 48 hours to get repairs done or have to go through a full test which effectively forces the customer to have the repairs carried out by garage. We are 10 working days, regardless if we do the repairs, the customer does or another garage does. It makes no difference to us, its just a paper work exercise - as well as checking the repairs are done.
You really should have to be running around like you have, the garage really should have done more to complete the test.
CraigyMc said:
My first elise was an S1 in 2002, I never had a problem like this with that car even though the jacking points all look similar on the diagram.
I think the problem that may not be apparent is that the extra weight of the V6 exige makes it tip backwards on the A jacking points.
My S1 elise would tip forwards on the same jack points.
The difference is likely the extra 8" of chassis behind the doors in the V6, and the extra weight of the V6/supercharger/bigger brakes+wheels, etc, most of which is rearward of the jacking point on the V6.
What happens if you ask them to Jack up the whole side as the lotus instructions say you can?I think the problem that may not be apparent is that the extra weight of the V6 exige makes it tip backwards on the A jacking points.
My S1 elise would tip forwards on the same jack points.
The difference is likely the extra 8" of chassis behind the doors in the V6, and the extra weight of the V6/supercharger/bigger brakes+wheels, etc, most of which is rearward of the jacking point on the V6.
ash73 said:
CraigyMc said:
He offered to visit the garage and sort out the "here's how you jack up a car" issue, but ... I'll pay somewhere else for an MOT to be done safely, later in the year.
If you went back to the garage with him they could complete the test and pass it, better for the car's history, you save £50 and the next person who rocks up with a Lotus doesn't have to jump through all the same hoops.The £50 isn't nothing but the time is more valuable to me at the moment.
stevemcs said:
CraigyMc said:
The result literally says "fail" in section 7 (which is the result section). It doesn't mention abandonment.
Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
No I agree, with that piece of paper i would take that as a fail and do not drive as highlighted in the bold section. However given the test was not completed then i wouldn't have expected to be given a fail sheet either, the test wasn't completed so whatever MOT was in place should still be in effect, I would expect the MOT to confirm that to you or if in doubt ring the DVSA for clarification, it shouldn't be for the customer to deal with. I wouldn't expect you to have to pay either, it wasn't your fault the test was aborted. Given you had paid I would expect the MOT centre to carry out a free test.Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
We have seen a couple of local test stations give customer 48 hours to get repairs done or have to go through a full test which effectively forces the customer to have the repairs carried out by garage. We are 10 working days, regardless if we do the repairs, the customer does or another garage does. It makes no difference to us, its just a paper work exercise - as well as checking the repairs are done.
You really should have to be running around like you have, the garage really should have done more to complete the test.
I think in future I'll be putting the car through a Lotus shop, or if I can't do that, I'll be arranging for the rear undertray to come off before and go back on after the MOT.
BertBert said:
CraigyMc said:
My first elise was an S1 in 2002, I never had a problem like this with that car even though the jacking points all look similar on the diagram.
I think the problem that may not be apparent is that the extra weight of the V6 exige makes it tip backwards on the A jacking points.
My S1 elise would tip forwards on the same jack points.
The difference is likely the extra 8" of chassis behind the doors in the V6, and the extra weight of the V6/supercharger/bigger brakes+wheels, etc, most of which is rearward of the jacking point on the V6.
What happens if you ask them to Jack up the whole side as the lotus instructions say you can?I think the problem that may not be apparent is that the extra weight of the V6 exige makes it tip backwards on the A jacking points.
My S1 elise would tip forwards on the same jack points.
The difference is likely the extra 8" of chassis behind the doors in the V6, and the extra weight of the V6/supercharger/bigger brakes+wheels, etc, most of which is rearward of the jacking point on the V6.
I don't know if there's a safe way to jack the car on one side and still jiggle the rear wheels around enough to feel for bearing play etc -- for a start the handbrake would need to be off in order for the wheels to rotate to check the tyres, so I suppose the car would need to be chocked.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't possible though.
CraigyMc said:
I won't be taking the Lotus back there freely (only if I have a problem) so won't be able to ask for this. I have no problem with them, they just aren't set up for this car.
I don't know if there's a safe way to jack the car on one side and still jiggle the rear wheels around enough to feel for bearing play etc -- for a start the handbrake would need to be off in order for the wheels to rotate to check the tyres, so I suppose the car would need to be chocked.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't possible though.
I'm just curious really as to how it gets done. Either with the under tray off, jacked up one side or other method!I don't know if there's a safe way to jack the car on one side and still jiggle the rear wheels around enough to feel for bearing play etc -- for a start the handbrake would need to be off in order for the wheels to rotate to check the tyres, so I suppose the car would need to be chocked.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't possible though.
Bert
BertBert said:
CraigyMc said:
I won't be taking the Lotus back there freely (only if I have a problem) so won't be able to ask for this. I have no problem with them, they just aren't set up for this car.
I don't know if there's a safe way to jack the car on one side and still jiggle the rear wheels around enough to feel for bearing play etc -- for a start the handbrake would need to be off in order for the wheels to rotate to check the tyres, so I suppose the car would need to be chocked.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't possible though.
I'm just curious really as to how it gets done. Either with the under tray off, jacked up one side or other method!I don't know if there's a safe way to jack the car on one side and still jiggle the rear wheels around enough to feel for bearing play etc -- for a start the handbrake would need to be off in order for the wheels to rotate to check the tyres, so I suppose the car would need to be chocked.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't possible though.
Bert
Because the MOT extension is valid, this can actually be any time between now and December.
To me it's sounds like a bit of an oversight when Lotus designed the car. I'm sure a specialist would know how to jack the car up and the consequences of jacking off point A B or C, but your generic MOT garage that has probably never seen one before would be unlikely to have this knowledge.
And maybe the MOT manual says raise both rear wheels together thats what the tester wanted to do, and didn't/cant/isn't allowed to think outside the box.
I'd have been interested to see if the DVSA guy knew the score if he'd have met you there to show them how to do jack the car up properly or if he'd have been a bit flummoxed.
And maybe the MOT manual says raise both rear wheels together thats what the tester wanted to do, and didn't/cant/isn't allowed to think outside the box.
I'd have been interested to see if the DVSA guy knew the score if he'd have met you there to show them how to do jack the car up properly or if he'd have been a bit flummoxed.
CraigyMc said:
The result literally says "fail" in section 7 (which is the result section). It doesn't mention abandonment.
Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
If this is showing up on your online MOT History, then keep a link to this thread safe. As a future buyer of your car may query it.Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
hyphen said:
CraigyMc said:
The result literally says "fail" in section 7 (which is the result section). It doesn't mention abandonment.
Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
If this is showing up on your online MOT History, then keep a link to this thread safe. As a future buyer of your car may query it.Here's a redacted scan of the document I was given on Monday. Would you think the car still had a valid MOT if you were given this?
Don't normally venture into these parts of the forum, but saw this post on the "whats new" and had a read.
I'm sure that even if this "fail" did happen to show up on the MOT history it would be easy to explain to a sensible buyer as it clearly says "unable to jack up car"
Where I work deals with high performance cars, rear-mid engined.
When being worked on the jacking points are in front of the engine. So when on a twin post lift the majority of the weight is hanging out the back. For normal stuff its fine and stable enough. But for anything more substantial the front gets strapped to the lift arms to stabilise the car.
Perhaps something similar could be done to the Lotus to stop it seesawing without having to take off the undertrays. A soft sling from a wheel spoke on each side connected to a ratchet under the lift. This wouldn't put any load on anything not designed for it.
Though it could be a bit of a pain to do this and arrange it with the tester when you could just take it to a specialist (if you have any locally/available) maybe pay a bit more and be done with it...
I'm sure that even if this "fail" did happen to show up on the MOT history it would be easy to explain to a sensible buyer as it clearly says "unable to jack up car"
Where I work deals with high performance cars, rear-mid engined.
When being worked on the jacking points are in front of the engine. So when on a twin post lift the majority of the weight is hanging out the back. For normal stuff its fine and stable enough. But for anything more substantial the front gets strapped to the lift arms to stabilise the car.
Perhaps something similar could be done to the Lotus to stop it seesawing without having to take off the undertrays. A soft sling from a wheel spoke on each side connected to a ratchet under the lift. This wouldn't put any load on anything not designed for it.
Though it could be a bit of a pain to do this and arrange it with the tester when you could just take it to a specialist (if you have any locally/available) maybe pay a bit more and be done with it...
Buzz84 said:
Don't normally venture into these parts of the forum, but saw this post on the "whats new" and had a read.
I'm sure that even if this "fail" did happen to show up on the MOT history it would be easy to explain to a sensible buyer as it clearly says "unable to jack up car"
Where I work deals with high performance cars, rear-mid engined.
When being worked on the jacking points are in front of the engine. So when on a twin post lift the majority of the weight is hanging out the back. For normal stuff its fine and stable enough. But for anything more substantial the front gets strapped to the lift arms to stabilise the car.
Perhaps something similar could be done to the Lotus to stop it seesawing without having to take off the undertrays. A soft sling from a wheel spoke on each side connected to a ratchet under the lift. This wouldn't put any load on anything not designed for it.
Though it could be a bit of a pain to do this and arrange it with the tester when you could just take it to a specialist (if you have any locally/available) maybe pay a bit more and be done with it...
Interesting idea.I'm sure that even if this "fail" did happen to show up on the MOT history it would be easy to explain to a sensible buyer as it clearly says "unable to jack up car"
Where I work deals with high performance cars, rear-mid engined.
When being worked on the jacking points are in front of the engine. So when on a twin post lift the majority of the weight is hanging out the back. For normal stuff its fine and stable enough. But for anything more substantial the front gets strapped to the lift arms to stabilise the car.
Perhaps something similar could be done to the Lotus to stop it seesawing without having to take off the undertrays. A soft sling from a wheel spoke on each side connected to a ratchet under the lift. This wouldn't put any load on anything not designed for it.
Though it could be a bit of a pain to do this and arrange it with the tester when you could just take it to a specialist (if you have any locally/available) maybe pay a bit more and be done with it...
TBH, I don't think the suspension is designed to take a load in that direction (effectively trying to pull the front wheels off, downwards) but by the same token I'd be shocked if that was a problem given the fact the same suspension has to deal with things like yumps.
I'll bear this in mind in future -- ta.
Buzz84 said:
Though it could be a bit of a pain to do this and arrange it with the tester when you could just take it to a specialist (if you have any locally/available) maybe pay a bit more and be done with it...
I have generally gone to specialists for all my cars but since I have an MOT location literally 2 minutes away from my house versus the nearest specialist which is a 50 minute drive each way, the former means I can get the car done while I'm on a break at work, the latter is really a half or full day off.To me, the money angle isn't the cost of the MOT, it's the opportunity cost of the day off (old jokes about people on PH all being musclebound directors etc etc aside, the day off is more valuable to me than the money).
Also -- the local place had availability when I was free (the specialist is really busy) and until it became clear there was a problem doing it locally, I'd rather have fed the local business.
I've already been convinced to just take the exige to a specialist for the MOT in future.
I think sometimes it is best to take more specialist vehicles to someone that deals in them a lot of the time to save this kind of aggro.
A colleague of mine has run a 1986-ish six wheel land rover for the last 15 years or so and he always took it for MOT to a specialist that dealt with old land rovers. Not because he got preferential treatment but because they understood land rovers and how they are in relation to play in suspension joints and the steering mechanism etc, they knew what was normal and what was excessive. Whereas a generic MOT tester down at Kwik Fit or somewhere would most likely have just failed it on everything with a bit of play in it.
A colleague of mine has run a 1986-ish six wheel land rover for the last 15 years or so and he always took it for MOT to a specialist that dealt with old land rovers. Not because he got preferential treatment but because they understood land rovers and how they are in relation to play in suspension joints and the steering mechanism etc, they knew what was normal and what was excessive. Whereas a generic MOT tester down at Kwik Fit or somewhere would most likely have just failed it on everything with a bit of play in it.
Similar predicament.
Sold a car not too long ago. Have a very helpful garage 2 min away but it's a generic place.
Condition of the car sale (covid unseen) was a fresh MOT.
Buyer had to wait a month as I wasn't prepared to take to to local spot or a Kwik Fitted up.
Specialist reopened. Completed the service and got the MOT through at their usual spot.
Didn't even have number plates on. The important bits were checked though!
Didn't take long as you can do the visuals on a Caterham in about 10 seconds
Sold a car not too long ago. Have a very helpful garage 2 min away but it's a generic place.
Condition of the car sale (covid unseen) was a fresh MOT.
Buyer had to wait a month as I wasn't prepared to take to to local spot or a Kwik Fitted up.
Specialist reopened. Completed the service and got the MOT through at their usual spot.
Didn't even have number plates on. The important bits were checked though!
Didn't take long as you can do the visuals on a Caterham in about 10 seconds
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