RE: Grippy tyre for the Elise released

[shangani]

zebedee said:

I changed my Pirelli rears for Advan Neova LTS about 2 years ago (s1 111s). Now the Pirelli fronts need changing too - so I assumed it was Neova LTS time again - what I can't understand from this article is why I might choose this tyre over a Neova LTS? Does anyone know, the only thing it says is it is grippy, but so is the Neova, and that it is good in winter, which doesn't concern me as I don't use it in winter. So what are the differences?

You are very lucky you didn't end up in a tree using different grip tyres front and rear on an elise. This really is not to be advised. On a light car where tyre grip is essential, the sets should be matched - true for any car, but especially an elise.

[Bada Bing!]

On the Top Gear episode where they tested the 111S, and Clarkson bemoaned the newly introduced understeer on the S2, their chassis bloke said it could be cured by adding wider front tyres.

Is that true, and if so which ones are recommended for my '06 spec 111R?

[S Works]

Better to learn how to drive around it before throwing '00s at the car.

A carlimits.com day under the tuition of Andrew Walsh is the best way to stop understeer - you'll learn why it happens, how to correct it, and some practical techniques on how to begin to master it in the Elise.

For the cost of a new set of tyres (which you don't need on your nice new 111R, do you??) you'll get a few days with Walshy... by which time you'll be due some new ones again .

[Tim Netherton]

Bada Bing! said:

On the Top Gear episode where they tested the 111S, and Clarkson bemoaned the newly introduced understeer on the S2, their chassis bloke said it could be cured by adding wider front tyres.

Is that true, and if so which ones are recommended for my '06 spec 111R?

Chassis Bloke = Gavan Kershaw - I believe he was refering to the Yokohama AO48's - there is a Lotus dvd/video where he is discussing various Lotus Sport parts you can fit to the Elise and mentions them saying that 'just bolting a set on will shave a couple of seconds off your lap times'.

I have done the above without any suspension mods, but I did it more for cosmetic reasons, but it certainly does stop the understeer.

People will doubtless be along shortly and tell you that the suspension will need changing for track work and I have no reason to doubt their word at all - I have only done one track day with them and pootle round most of the time and have not encountered any problems.

[enjybenjy]

you've got A048s on your standard 111R rims right?

[Tim Netherton]

enjybenjy said:

you've got A048s on your standard 111R rims right?

Sorry Enjy - I have a K series 2004 Elise and got some OZ rims with the A048's to replace my standard items.

Edited by Tim Netherton on Wednesday 23 August 12:23

[Bada Bing!]

I'll probably do some sort of driver training. I was very fast in the S2000 (which had no idea what understeer is), but had to be very clinical/disciplined so as not to bring on violent oversteer.

In the Elise, I'm actually a lot quicker, but I'm not able to be as clinical as I feel the understeer has spoiled any margin for flair or style. At the moment it's just pile in fast, understeer a lot then power back on, which I know is not how an Elise wants to be driven.

I've recently got large roundabouts down to a t, by using lift off oversteer, but feel I'm driving it like an FWD if I do that on b-roads when I should really still be on the power.

Edited by Bada Bing! on Wednesday 23 August 12:38

[enjybenjy]

Tim Netherton said:

enjybenjy said:

you've got A048s on your standard 111R rims right?

Sorry Enjy - I have a K series 2004 Elise and got some OZ rims with the A048's to replace my standard items.

Edited by Tim Netherton on Wednesday 23 August 12:23

Cool. I'm about to get some Exige rims with the same rubber. I've currently got reservations though because I do about 12K pa in mine, have standard suspension and use it all year round, so I'm currently wondering whether or not to take the 048s off and replace with Toyos when I get the wheels...on the other hand, I could just have fun with the Yokos - albeit bouncing off the bumpstops by the sounds of it!

[Davey S2]

If you are putting sticky tyres on a standars car you really should look at upgrading the suspension or toe links.

[scotte]

S Works said:

Better to learn how to drive around it before throwing '00s at the car.

A carlimits.com day under the tuition of Andrew Walsh is the best way to stop understeer - you'll learn why it happens, how to correct it, and some practical techniques on how to begin to master it in the Elise.

For the cost of a new set of tyres (which you don't need on your nice new 111R, do you??) you'll get a few days with Walshy... by which time you'll be due some new ones again .

sticking my neck out a bit here ...... why is understeer such a problem in the elise ?

In a FWD or RWD car when i oversteer and the back end is out and i do a 180. With understeer my front end is out and i have always corrected it (ok i have only ever understeered in a FWD) and at the worst the car goes a bit wide around a corner - but never as serious as an oversteer prob.

Simply i dont understand all the complaints about understeer - is it more of a problem on a track when time is important ?

thanks
scott

[S Works]

scotte said:

S Works said:

Better to learn how to drive around it before throwing '00s at the car.

A carlimits.com day under the tuition of Andrew Walsh is the best way to stop understeer - you'll learn why it happens, how to correct it, and some practical techniques on how to begin to master it in the Elise.

For the cost of a new set of tyres (which you don't need on your nice new 111R, do you??) you'll get a few days with Walshy... by which time you'll be due some new ones again .

sticking my neck out a bit here ...... why is understeer such a problem in the elise ?

In a FWD or RWD car when i oversteer and the back end is out and i do a 180. With understeer my front end is out and i have always corrected it (ok i have only ever understeered in a FWD) and at the worst the car goes a bit wide around a corner - but never as serious as an oversteer prob.

Simply i dont understand all the complaints about understeer - is it more of a problem on a track when time is important ?

thanks
scott

I think the art of learning how and why under/oversteer happens, and how you can correct it by adjusting the way you drive is part of the key to becoming an advanced driver (the other major piece being observation and anticipation).

In the Elise (especially the S2) understeer is something dialling into the 'standard' set-up of the car, afaik because more than a few S1's had hedge interface moments and Lotus wanted to make the car less prone to that as it sold to a larger, and perhaps less talented clientele.

You can make any car under or oversteer with the right/wrong inputs.

From my humble point of view, I'd say the one reason you'd want to get to know why this happens is that most people simply lift off when under or oversteer becomes acute... and we all know what that leads to in many cases right?

Yep, those damn pesky hedge, lamp-post, curb interfaces again!

[scotte]

you speak like a fellow IT geek ...

[zebedee]

shangani said:

zebedee said:

I changed my Pirelli rears for Advan Neova LTS about 2 years ago (s1 111s). Now the Pirelli fronts need changing too - so I assumed it was Neova LTS time again - what I can't understand from this article is why I might choose this tyre over a Neova LTS? Does anyone know, the only thing it says is it is grippy, but so is the Neova, and that it is good in winter, which doesn't concern me as I don't use it in winter. So what are the differences?

You are very lucky you didn't end up in a tree using different grip tyres front and rear on an elise. This really is not to be advised. On a light car where tyre grip is essential, the sets should be matched - true for any car, but especially an elise.

its fine, only drive hard in the dry, I know its not ideal, but its been fine on the road and track days. Tyre companies would tell you its essential to match, but its not

[zebedee]

so why would you choose these tyres instead of Advan Neova LTS and vice versa? That question is the most important and even Yokohama don't answer it on their website

[S Works]

I wouldn't - the LTS were designed specifically for the S1, which is why those are the weapon of choice IMO.

[zebedee]

but the article says the new c drives are for those who want to use their S1 through the winter, so any S2 talk on here is seemingly pointless. But if that is the sole difference, will stick to the Advans

[redlake27]

On my S1 Elise 135 I use Dunlop SP9000 195/50R15 front and 225/45R16 rear.

These are the same sizes as the 'option' tyres listed by Lotus but are more biased towards wet performance. The wider front has negated the understeer experienced on 185s.

They certainly are more confidence inspiring in all weathers, particularly under braking. I've noticed a couple of instructors now using these on track cars as well.

[neon_fox]

scotte said:

sticking my neck out a bit here ...... why is understeer such a problem in the elise ?

In a FWD or RWD car when i oversteer and the back end is out and i do a 180. With understeer my front end is out and i have always corrected it (ok i have only ever understeered in a FWD) and at the worst the car goes a bit wide around a corner - but never as serious as an oversteer prob.

Simply i dont understand all the complaints about understeer - is it more of a problem on a track when time is important ?

thanks
scott

Understeer is a problem because it ruins the 'feel' of the car, no longer is it adjustable. Plus of course ploughing into a tree/barrier/curb on the outside of a bend is no better than hitting one on the inside. Understeer prompts the uneducated to lift off (and maybe even panic brake) which leads to roll-oversteer (the transition of which was very fast in my S1).

[westy182]

Ok so after reading through that lot this is what I understand:

Advan Neovas are good in dry but if you're an all year round driver you need the C drives?

I'm confused, is this right?

[tomtom]

My Advans are pretty good in the wet too. Went a little too quickly round a corner, which turned out to be damp halfway round, earlier on today and just got a little understeer as a slap on the wrist.