Anyone drive an Elise as an everyday car?

[washingtonlee]

I'm here in the U.S., patiently waiting for the arrival of the Elise in 2003 (not so patiently, actually going bonkers here), and I was wondering if I have to keep my current car and drive the Elise as a "weekend" car, or can the Elise serve as an everyday car? I would prefer to own only one car, because it would save me from having to pay for double registration and insurance.

How do you Elise people do it?

BTW, what is "stack"? I see it in the picture of the Elise's control panel. If anyone can tell me what this is, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for any input.

[adeewuff]

Lee, I think it would depend on how many miles you'll covering each day and what the typical weather conditions are like in your area. You've also got to take into account that the Elise has far less storage space than your average US Sedan.

I think the only way to make a judgement like this is to wait until your dealer can let you test drive one. I warn you now though that you'll put your money down as soon as you get out of the car!! I know this because I did!!

Stack is the manufacturer of high quality, high precision car instruments. This is reflected in the price of the units when trying to buy them seperately. Lotus use a Stack unit for the Tacho, Speedo and the various temperature and fuel readouts.

[washingtonlee]

Well, I'm driving a Toyota Celica now. So the main thing I'll lose is the trunk space. Work is only 7-8 miles away, so I won't be logging that many miles. I'm just south of the LA area, so the weather here is pretty much sunny and warm 10-11 months out of the year. Once in the blue moon, it rains.

As for wanting to get one, I already put a deposit on one. I think the Elise is the only car I'm willing to purchase upon reputation alone. (haven't test drove one yet, but hopefully will in a month).

[bigchef]

Hi Washingtonlee!

Well I am proud owner of Elise MkII since September 2001 and have driven about 3500 miles so far - it is my "everyday/only car".

If your main aim is to drive a car that behaves like a cheeky tearaway then this is it. It demands your attention if you drive it hard - a tendency to power slide in the wet for example, but provided you learn how to deal with this, you'll absolutely love it (I do!) The centre of gravity of this car is so low, that you can speed round corners twice as fast as most other cars, without being shoved into the door handle as you do so.

You will however, need to learn the art of getting in and out of the car, and persuading your passengers that it is worth the effort - otherwise they will curse you for having such a weird low-slung machine.

Boot space in the MkII is considerably better than the MkII. I have managed to take a friend for an 850 mile 5-day tour in UK, with all our luggage stowed in the car - as long as you have "squashable" buggage, it is amazing how much it is possible to squeeze in to the car's supposedly small boot.

I have driven in all weather's and so far, I have not had trouble. Still waiting for enough sun, to put the hood down though - although I doubt that sounds like a problem for you (lucky **** !!!)

There are a few quirks you will need to deal with and for the price, a number of luxuries and comforts you will have to do without. The MkII is not as spartan as the MkI though, and as long as you love driving above all else, you will certainly fall in love with this car.

Just one snag... I was caught speeding last week on the motorway. It was a clear lane, and my foot was only half down, but nevertheless, we are talking a little over 100mph / 160kph, and that is naughty. Of course in the little Lotus with an extra 70kg of downforce at that speed, it feels perfectly at home, but sadly it is above the national speed limit, so now I await my fate. If anyone out there has any tips for minimising the penalty, please reply!! (was caught as "offence" not "fixed penalty notice" so a time-bar without a licence is a possibilty).

Conclusion - a beautiful car for the right person. Can be used as an everyday/only car, provided you have no kids and are not afraid of losing a few luxuries, in order to enjoy your time at its luscious little leather steering wheel.

[phil r]

I've had a mk 1 for 4 years and 30000 miles, you can pack clothing for a week for 2 in the trunk with creative packing and I've had no reliability problems.
80mph on the motorway is loud with a sports exhaust but lotus supply a carpet kit for the mk 1 which helps lots. The Mk 2 is available in sport tourer trim which has more soundproofing and carpet and is a little quieter on the motorway. This is less of a problem at 55mph!

[chandra]

I've had my elise for 4 years with 58000 on the clock. Used everyday. Been up & down the UK in it.
It's kind of addictive, no matter how many times you drive it
Lee, at least you don't have to worry about wet weather, it's kinda hardgoing on a long journey. I've got a hardtop for winter which is great, and makes the car look even better, i get alot of admiring looks
I agree it's kinda loud (especially if you have a sports exhaust), it's worth it as you get luvly pops and bangs lifting off the throttle . Anyways I crank up the tunes which gets in the mood!
As to speed, I pick my routes to make the most of the handling & no police/speed traps (although I back up with a detector).
My tips are to treat the car with respect, feel what is been fed back (it'll become 2nd nature). Check tires weekly etc.
Unfortunately, I have to give to pressure at home & the car's going
2 kids, wife & parents worry, too many bloddy idiots on the road
Have to get something big luxiurous & can ferry the kids around...so I'm getting an XJR

[adeewuff]

Mmmm... as an only/every day car? I'm not so sure. I had an Elise S1 for 12 months and when you are in the mood to drive 'spiritedly' then nothing can touch it to be honest. But if I was sitting on a motorway with the exhaust buzzing it really did start to irritate me!

Now I was only 23 when I got my Elise so accusing me of being a old fart is not going to work. It's just that 90% of the time I just wanted to get to where I was going and didn't want to know about every single indentation in the road, or feel like I was travelling at the speed of sound.

The wind and road noise above 80 mph is pretty unacceptable and in the wet it's best not to press on unless you really know what you are doing!

A fun weekend car for tearing up the roads when you are in the mood? Yes, absolutely. But as for being a practical everyday car.... no chance.

[FastSpider]

I use my Elise as a daily driver to go about 20 miles to work. I timeshift to avoid the traffic jams, but if I get stuck I have a good sound system to listen to

My other daily driver is a '75 Fiat 124 Spider, which is only a little bit more practical...

I'm in the CA bay area. I also went down to LA over 4th of july for a week, with girlfriend and just enough trunk space.
When girlfriend was telling another woman about this the reply was "but where did you put all your shoes?" So you need to find a GF who can made do with only a few outfits..
With an Elise, this isn't hard

I'll be driving to LA again soon, drop me a line if you want to meet. South LA is where the VTEC conversions are done...

[JonGwynne]

quote:
Mmmm... as an only/every day car? I'm not so sure. I had an Elise S1 for 12 months and when you are in the mood to drive 'spiritedly' then nothing can touch it to be honest. But if I was sitting on a motorway with the exhaust buzzing it really did start to irritate me!

Now I was only 23 when I got my Elise so accusing me of being a old fart is not going to work. It's just that 90% of the time I just wanted to get to where I was going and didn't want to know about every single indentation in the road, or feel like I was travelling at the speed of sound.

The wind and road noise above 80 mph is pretty unacceptable and in the wet it's best not to press on unless you really know what you are doing!

A fun weekend car for tearing up the roads when you are in the mood? Yes, absolutely. But as for being a practical everyday car.... no chance.

I don't know "no chance" is a bit harsh. I know people who have had Toyota MR2s as their only cars and you can't honestly say they're significantly more practical than the Elise.

Speaking as an American working in the UK who got the opportunity to live with an S2 Elise for a week, I can point out some possible sticking points for an American car buyer thinking about an Elise.

Practicality probably isn't likely to be an issue. It is no secret that the Elise is a no-compromise 2-seater with minimal trunk (that's "boot" to the Brits) space. Therefore, someone even considering an Elise as a daily driver will have already considered this. If they haven't they deserve to pay the penalties of trading the car back in. ;->

However, for those of you on across the point thinking about an Elise, a good starting point for comparison is the Toyota MR2 spider. If you think you could like with one as your only car, then an Elise is a possiblility. In fact the Elise has significantly more storage space than the MR2.

It may also be an doubly apt comparison because, I've heard that the American Elise will ship MR2's engine.

The main criticism from American buyers are likely to revolve around the following.

1. Interior appointments.

The car is likely to come in around the same price as a low-end Porsche Boxter and the Honda S2000 and many Americans willing and able to spend nearly (or perhaps a little over) $40,000 on a sports car may get into the Lotus and say "Is this it?"

They'll want something more than a fantasically successful exercise in minimalism. I wonder how many prospective American buyers would say "cheap" was the first word they thought of to describe the interior of the Elise when they got in. Of course, that assumes Lotus will keep the interior of US Elises the same as their British counterparts.

2. Ease of getting in/out.

While we're on the subject of getting into the Lotus. What do you also want to bet that every single demonstrator vehicle will have the roof off? Here's an important tip for test-driving an Elise. Don't give the dealer ANY money or make ANY committments until you get in and out of the car at least once with the roof on. For some people it will be a deal breaker.

Maybe the Elise will create a trend in dieting and yoga among sports-car enthusiasts. Maybe it won't. One thing is for certain, the average American will have a difficult time getting in and out of this car even with the roof off. Actually, strike that. The "average" American wouldn't fit in an Elise. Period. I'm 5'11/190lbs and I'm close to the height limit and even closer to the weight limit for fitting comfortably in that car.

Here's another important tip if you're thinking about an Elise. If you are taller than 6'2" or are much more than 36" around the waist, the odds are very much against you fitting in this car.

Once you're in and get over any disappointment you may have in an interior that can most politely be described as "spartan", driving the Elise may cause you to forget (or perhaps just forgive) any so-called shortcomings. It is a joy to drive and many people who were dubious at first about the car will fall in love when they get behind the wheel.

However, at the risk of being a wet-blanket, there are a few things to which the test-driver should force themselves to pay attention.

Road noise. The Elise isn't a quiet car. It never will be. If you want a quiet, relaxed cruiser... buy something else. The trick is whether you can live with the noise levels. Be SURE to take it on a freeway to be sure you can live with the gear ratios. Early Elises were very "short-legged". In other words it was necessary to maintain high engine RPMs to hit freeway speed. This makes for tedious engine noise which is difficult to ignore when the engine is literally inches from the driver's head.

Ride height. Some people appreciate the reason for the low ride height - the lower the car's center of gravity, the better it goes around corners. However, some people won't like to be in traffic in a car that Honda Civics literally tower over. Especially in a country where cars like the Ford Explorer and Lincoln Navigator are so popular.

Now, after that huge rant, I think there are definitely people who could live with the Elise as their only car and drive it every day. I doubt most American buyers would fall into this category but that shouldn't discourage people from buying them all the same.

In other words, if you really want to use the Elise as a daily driver, it is possible.

Now my real rant...

Personally, I think Lotus is crazy for trying to bring the Elise to the US. I can't imagine they they'll even come close to selling enough cars to recoup the initial expenses of making such a move. As much as I love the Elise, I wouldn't pretend for a moment that there are enough people who would look at it the way I do and be willing and able to spend the money for one to make it worth Lotus' while to bring it in.

At the end of the day, too many prospective customers will be dissuaded from buying for one of more of the following reasons...

1. Price. If it could compete in price with the MR2 and Miata (MX-5 to the Brits) then it would be far more attractive and its minimalist interior, problematic entry/exit and lack of refinement would be less of an issue.

2. Accessibility. I suspect a significant number of people who could afford to pay for an Elise are going to be unable to live with the car because they are simply too tall and/or fat or because they don't feel comfortable getting in and out. This would also include any women who like to wear skirts - unless they are looking for opportunities to display underwear (or lack thereof) to passersby.

3. Refinement. It has taken Lotus several years to even partially address issues of engine noise and gearing in the orginal Rover-engined car. Who knows how long it will take to recognize and respond to issues brought up in a model with a different engine.

I heard their original plan was to use the success of the Elise in the UK and Europe to pay for the development of the M250 project which was to have brought everythink the Brits and Europeans loved about the Elise to the American public along with some selling points to satisfy the American market (more refinement, more space, larger/more powerful engine to offset the inevitable weight gain).

That made much more sense than trying to sell the Elise in the US. No offense to the handful of people who will buy and love the Elise if it comes to the US. ;->

[ptc]

I heard their original plan was to use the success of the Elise in the UK and Europe to pay for the development of the M250 project which was to have brought everythink the Brits and Europeans loved about the Elise to the American public along with some selling points to satisfy the American market (more refinement, more space, larger/more powerful engine to offset the inevitable weight gain).

That made much more sense than trying to sell the Elise in the US. No offense to the handful of people who will buy and love the Elise if it comes to the US. ;->

---

I think you are possibly right in many ways, the commercial sense of developing the Elise for the US market in the hope of making a return purely on the Elise alone is tantamount to potential commercial suicide. I really do hope that if they are to launch what will no doubt be a heavily revised S2 to cater for the US market that they have got their sums and marketing spot on, a criticism that could be levelled fairly at the way they have approached the UK market of late.

Being ever the optimist is this perhaps a way of building the Lotus brand in the US prior to the launch of a replacement or revised M250 programme - with the financial backing of Proton and a recovering Malaysian market - we will see.

As for an every day car it is certainly feasible, especially away from London where sitting in traffic without aircon could be annoying to say the least. At least the roads in Suffolk are quieter

PC

>> Edited by ptc on Monday 16th September 17:58

[Englishman in LA]

This discussion again gets to whether its fainancially common sense to bring the Elise to the States. I do think its worth while, because I'm sure that there are enough people who want a drivers car whatever the compromises to sell about 2000 cars a year. To back that up, I believe that the first years sales have already been taken with deposits.

I hope I'm right. I have a deposit down.

Steve

[FastSpider]

There is no point talking about the Average American and the Elise in the same sentence. The average american drives a pickup truck, Ford Taurus or Honda Accord, and there are a few hundred million Americans to go buy these things.

To sell a few thousand Elises doesn't even need a marketing campaign. There is nothing like it on the road, I'm driving my Elise around the USA all the time and I can tell you that many people seriously want one.

For Lotus to keep their costs down they should concentrate sales/support in a few key states, but thats nothing new.

As for size, a Mazda Miata (MX5) isn't much bigger and there are loads of them on the road, so there are plenty of folks who aren't scared of sharing the road with SUV's and trucks.

Finally, there needs to be a production run of several thousand Elises in the USA before the SCCA will recognise it and classify it for sports car races. At present the Elise gets put in the same class as custom special track cars for most events. One of the Autocross organizers was nice enough to let me run in AS class with the Corvettes, Boxter S and M-Coupes, which is more reasonable.

In the meantime, Sun International and Prototype Racing are giving some of the US based Elise addicts a nice fix It looks as if they have the market to themselves for the next year or two.

[Nobbles]

I bought an S2 last September and did 10000 miles by May, regretfully I had to leave it at home as I had to work out in the US for ~ 6 months. Apart from the usual niggles and one major problem where it would keep blowing fuses and refuse to start it was OK. The times it was off the road provided me with a courtesy car from the dealer in which the trips to IKEA were all squeezed in sometimes having a normal car instead of a Lotus as a courtesy car has an advantage. I have considered bringing my car over to North Carolina on a passport but I reckon that there will be problems. First of all its bloody hot out here, LA probably hotter, how it would withstand the heat and rush hours in LA probably not too good. On the S2 there is more injection moulded plastic used, the heat and sun could crack and fade these parts. Also the roads have the biggest potholes that I have ever seen whether the aluminium wishbones could handle these without buckling, bending etc. It would look fantastic out here though and cost about $8 to fill the tank and give all the cocky Boxster owners a run for there money......

[ptc]

quote:
This discussion again gets to whether its fainancially common sense to bring the Elise to the States. I do think its worth while, because I'm sure that there are enough people who want a drivers car whatever the compromises to sell about 2000 cars a year. To back that up, I believe that the first years sales have already been taken with deposits.

Steve

I hope you are right, unfortunately the M250 debacle did set the scene with regard to putting down deposits on cars that do not materialise, witness Jensen and possibly ACE or though I may be wrong on the later.

To really understand what Lotus are up too and therein their owners, Proton, we would need to see their latest financials to gain an idea of whether any injection of capital from the parent and comments in the accounts point towards an overseas strategy including the Asian market.

The brand is strong but it cannot hold up a company for ever and sooner or later they will have to come clean with their latest developments not only for the publics sake but to reassure investors and bankers alike that the company has products that will see it through over the next 5/10 years. That cannot be far away, the Espirit is in its final incarnation, so there must be new cars in the pipeline including a US S2 hopefully.

I would be curious to know if anyone picked up any tit bits following the recent open day.

As an aside how are the US S2's being marketed in the US, is there an actual US brochure or is this based on the speculation of dealers? If it was the former did a US marketing consultancy provide any feedback as to the cars potential in the US or is this pure reliance on an automotive market so large that the odds are they will shift a couple of thousand units?

PC

[JonGwynne]

quote:
This discussion again gets to whether its fainancially common sense to bring the Elise to the States. I do think its worth while, because I'm sure that there are enough people who want a drivers car whatever the compromises to sell about 2000 cars a year. To back that up, I believe that the first years sales have already been taken with deposits.

I hope I'm right. I have a deposit down.

Steve

I hope you're right too.

But at the risk of raining on your picnic, I think the idea of Lotus selling 2,000 cars/year is optimistic to the point of being hallucinatory. Realistically, they'll be lucky to do half that.

You say they've got 5 years worth of sales already accounted for in deposits? I assume you mean they've got deposits on the purchase of 10,000 cars. How many of these were made by people who were able to test-drive an Elise? Or were they taken by ambitious salesmen who were selling an idea rather than an actual car?

When the car arrives, how many of those deposits will turn into sales? We won't know until the cars arrive.

But, let's assume they do actually sell 2,000 cars every year. How many millions of dollars has it cost them to submit the car to American DOT inspections and re-design the car to meet US standards as well as being able to accept the new (Toyota?) engine? We're talking a couple million here easy.

Then there's production. Where will the cars be built? Hethel? Of course. They wouldn't build a new production facility just for 2,000 cars/year.

Then there is the cost of re-tooling the line to be able to install the different engine for American versions of the car. Presumably that will be done in such a way as to allow current production of UK/Europe-spec vehicles to continue. Or is Lotus going to discontinue use of the Rover K engine altogether? Lotus appears to be pretty quiet on these and other important questions.

I'm not trying to be a wet-blanket, just playing Devil's Advocate.

[ptc]

quote:

quote:
This discussion again gets to whether its fainancially common sense to bring the Elise to the States. I do think its worth while, because I'm sure that there are enough people who want a drivers car whatever the compromises to sell about 2000 cars a year. To back that up, I believe that the first years sales have already been taken with deposits.

I hope I'm right. I have a deposit down.

Steve

I hope you're right too.

But at the risk of raining on your picnic, I think the idea of Lotus selling 2,000 cars/year is optimistic to the point of being hallucinatory. Realistically, they'll be lucky to do half that.

- No not at all, I am not saying they have deposits for 2000 cars I merely speculating that the US market could easily account for 2000 units - based on my knowledge of the number of units that GM, Ford etc shift across a number of different car types from SUV's to sports cars - the figure is indicative rather than actual.

You say they've got 5 years worth of sales already accounted for in deposits? I assume you mean they've got deposits on the purchase of 10,000 cars. How many of these were made by people who were able to test-drive an Elise? Or were they taken by ambitious salesmen who were selling an idea rather than an actual car?

- The point being made with regard to the Lotus's production does not relate to the number of deposits taken but to a commercial view that Lotus must have new models or derivatives of existing models in the pipeline to meet a production quota over the next 3/5 years and designs of new models on the drawing board to keep the sales on units at the level required to keep the business viable. In the current automotive world new products have an increasingly shorter shelf life requiring new replacememts on a continual basis - think how many new models have come out of Ford of late.



>> Edited by ptc on Tuesday 17th September 13:28

[JonGwynne]

quote:


To sell a few thousand Elises doesn't even need a marketing campaign. There is nothing like it on the road, I'm driving my Elise around the USA all the time and I can tell you that many people seriously want one.

As for size, a Mazda Miata (MX5) isn't much bigger and there are loads of them on the road, so there are plenty of folks who aren't scared of sharing the road with SUV's and trucks.

A couple of points...

First, to say there is "nothing like the Elise" on the road in the US isn't strictly true.

The Toyota MR2 Spider is comparable to the Elise. It gives up a little to the Elise in terms of weight, performance and handling but not a great deal. The lower price makes the compromise a bit easier to take.

But, if Lotus wants to sell the Elise to Americans, it will have to show people who could choose the MR2 why they should spend several thousand more. This may prove to be even more difficult if the American Elise ships with the same engine as the MR2.

Comparing the Miata to the Elise for size is one thing. There isn't a great deal of different between the two. The more important difference is the ride height - i.e. how close the driver's butt is to the road.

That has a huge effect on the percieved size of the vehicle once the driver is behind the wheel - the feeling of, for lack of a better term, "vulnerability" on the road. It is one thing driving around British roads in an Elise and having to co-exist with the likes of a Toyota Yaris or a Ford Mondeo. Quite another to have to share the road with Toyota Landcruiser or a Ford Explorer.

Plus, speaking of hind quarters, how close the driver's is to the ground is only one issue. Chicago may be known as the "City of Big Shoulders" but American is fast becoming the "Nation of Giant Butts". Lotus is going to have to skim its customers from a pretty small pool already trying to decide between whether they want a Mazda Miata, Toyota MR2 Spider, BMW Z3, Honda S2000 or Porsche Boxter.

Put another way, bringing the Fiat Barchetta to the US makes at least as much sense as trying to transplant the Lotus Elise but has there been even a whisper of trying that? If there has, I haven't heard it. BMW didn't even bother with the Z1. Do these people know something Lotus doesn't?

[ptc]

I hope I'm right. I have a deposit down.

quote:

There is obviously a lot of speculation going concerning the US S2, but does anyone have a thread on the official Lotus line or that of the dealers taking depos in the US?

[FastSpider]

quote:
The Toyota MR2 Spider is comparable to the Elise. It gives up a little to the Elise in terms of weight, performance and handling but not a great deal.

I parked next to an MR2, its huge in comparison. It doesn't attract the same attention. My Elise is looked at in the same light as a Ferrari not a Toyota. Some is the name, some is the styling, some is the Elise reputation, US car fans have been reading about the Elise for the last 5 years...

To American eyes the car is cool and different. In California it will sell like crazy, other parts of the US will sell a few. There are race tracks all across the USA, track days almost every week.

As for big butts, I've levered a few into my Elise for a ride, but there are plenty of people that do fit nicely. This isn't an issue.

[Englishman in LA]

The background on the Lotus in the US over the last year that at the LA auto show in January there were 2 S2 elises on the stand. The Lotus guy there said that the S2 would be coming to the US in September 2003 with a new engine, but he couldn't say what that engine would be. He said that Lotus would be taking deposits.

I went to my Lotus dealership and put down a deposit. Their story was the same (September 03). Clearly they had got some kind of information from Lotus UK.

I've seen various articles which refer to this as the 'soft release' of the Elise to the US market to gauge the US response. Given the number of people who have deposits (http://lotus.roadfly.org/lotus/forums/elise/forum.php)
I would have thought that the release was a success.

As for the US taking 2000 cars, given the amount of exotica I see on the road every day, I'd say that LA will take 1000 of those, and from what I've heard from fast spider, the bay area will take the other 1000. remember, 2000 cars is less than 1 in 100,000 of the adult population of the US.

Given the lack of news I am frustrated, and rumour has it that I won't be seeing my car till '04, but I'm pretty sure that I can wait that long.

PS. It won't be my only car.

Steve