Powers 4.5Super Sports & Anti Knock MBE Timeline

[Incognegro]

Matthew I've ripped this from my post on FB, Ok here's an update. After having oils switched and told I can go up to 5k rpm. Went for a spirited run to configure my OBDII app and try a soft launch control. OMG that launch makes you forget to change up to 2nd... why? Because your senses feel like NASA have strapped you to a Apollo mission and put you in orbit! 😳🙃 (Bearing in mind this was me being gentle)!... the app showing great stuff and still needs adjustments to the range of gauges. nice to see ignition advance and things now. still can't get the Lambdas up but will soon

oh and one more thing the drive showed how amazing this car is but my throttle only opens up to 80% even when floored meaning cable needs 20% to find. but even now I'm shaking so this is going to be one hell of a time. I may need to learn this car all over again.
Also the steering wheel badge ended up in my lap under the launch. NO JOKE!!

[Incognegro]

A few more runs to go this week before she is taken to Powers for the tappets and Rolling Road mapping... (every 50rpm if Im not mistaken). I can't wait to see how she comes home and with the full opening of the throttle its going to be pulling Gs like never before.

Then its time for a full detail

[Incognegro]

So she stood up to all miles of running in and is back at Powers for the final coming together.



Nice to get the pic and thumbs up from Dom... "still looks like new" which means my running in was not at fault... I won't say what speed 5th gear @ 5k gets but knowing I'll have another 2.2k really is terrifying me.

[Incognegro]

Updates are about to get VERY juicey.

Argento was rolling road mapped and the figures are in! Follow link on Powers Facebook page post

https://www.facebook.com/tvrpowersperformance/?hc_...

Dom and Powers are giving away £100 to whoever gets the exact figures (bhp and lb/ft @ the rear wheels) figures rounded to nearest number e.g. .5 and above rounded up like in maths.

I know what I have an I am VERY VERY happy although it was exactly as I'd expect from Dom, who listened to me as a customer and we worked together closely throughout.

Things just got more exciting

[Incognegro]

To Update final figures are now in!

The 4.5SS Knock MBE has made:

414hp @ the rear wheels
392ftlb

Thats a crank calculation of

482bhp lets divide that by 1130kg and that leaves 427bhp per tonne (2 more than a Lambo Aventador)

I wonder how many horses switching to the Saxo PAS saved me?

Very happy with Doms work and the MBE... before mapping began the baseline figure was 393hp and 377ftlb

Oh and there are flames!

Edited by Incognegro on Thursday 10th August 11:59

Edited by Incognegro on Thursday 10th August 20:56

Edited by Incognegro on Thursday 10th August 20:57

[Incognegro]

Since the graph and driving upon fitting the Redtop it seems to have highlighted a battery drain. when isolated green lights on the indicator system (ctek) soon as I connect it goes to amber.

The most strange bit is OBD reads 5.3v (@ ECU) but 12.6v "read by scan tool" soon as i hit black button once they meet at 12.5/6v then press to start car and boom both go to 13.4v very confused by this so its in to Powers on Friday as Jay thinks there is a back feed from a dodgy LED

[Andy_mr2sc]

Just read this. A standard healthy 4l produces 350/360hp atf. Apart from the extra 500cc and refined management, what else is done to the engine to achieve a ~33% power gain? Bearing in mind these engines are in a relatively high state of tune from the factory, that's quite a power hike.

[Jhonno]

Andy_mr2sc said:

Just read this. A standard healthy 4l produces 350/360hp atf. Apart from the extra 500cc and refined management, what else is done to the engine to achieve a ~33% power gain? Bearing in mind these engines are in a relatively high state of tune from the factory, that's quite a power hike.

I think the key is, it seems the Powers dyno would read 360bhp @TW for a standard one.. So would probaly be more like 15% gain.

[Andy_mr2sc]

Jhonno said:

I think the key is, it seems the Powers dyno would read 360bhp @TW for a standard one.. So would probaly be more like 15% gain.

You know this. I know this. Most sane other people know this....

[coco79]

It's a lot of wonga for 15% gain..

[Andy_mr2sc]

They're a bloody strong engine. I can't argue that. I have a Powers rebuilt 4l in my Tuscan and have driven a 4.5SS and they deliver the goods. What I don't get is the numbers that keep being quoted for them. It's greater fantasy than a Disney cartoon.

[spitfire4v8]

At the risk of transporting myself back 10 years, even the designer of the dynojet dyno says it over-reads. Anything from 15 to 20 percent depending what you're comparing it to. So yes, the wheels figure from a dynojet is about what most other dynos would give you as a flywheel figure.
Don't get me started on people adding massive losses to hub dyno figures ..

Ive mapped quite a few str8six and powers performance engines (once they come out of warranty ..) and they always make a smidge over 400hp flywheel on my dyno no matter who's built them. They're always silky smooth too. Nice engines, which is one reason I'm looking out for a Tuscan to replace the Cerb.

[chris watton]

coco79 said:

It's a lot of wonga for 15% gain..

It is a lot, that cannot be contested. However, it's not just the 15% gain. the torque curve is much healthier and the owner gets complete peace of mind when driving the car.

I have had my 4.3 a couple of years now, and not once have I ever worried when turning the key and driving the car that the engine will go pop. The more it's driven, the more the engine loosens up and feels great. Plus of course, there's the warranty for extra peace of mind. When I plant my foot to the floor in 2nd or 3rd, I can feel the rear scrabbling for traction, so I know the torque is a lot more than the 3.6, as I never had that sensation in standard form.

I only had the 'lowly' 4.3 (from 3.6), but taken as a whole, the package is fantastic, even without the new MBE.

[Whitey]

Surely the main difference in incognegro's figures over a standard or S 4.0 engine is the gain of about 90lb/ft of torque?

Is the engine still as happy to rev quickly?

[gacksen]

Andy_mr2sc said:

They're a bloody strong engine. I can't argue that. I have a Powers rebuilt 4l in my Tuscan and have driven a 4.5SS and they deliver the goods. What I don't get is the numbers that keep being quoted for them. It's greater fantasy than a Disney cartoon.

hopefully they day will come one of those guys is building a proper 3.6L engine that revs safely up to 9K rpm.

500CC increase in displacement is unlikely to give big gains. getting rid of catalytic converters, putting in different cams,
revising the exhaust etc., raising compression will end up in gains but as usual NA tuning is a costly thing.

just wondering about this MBE thing.... as a customer do i get the software and access to the ECU means map ?

[Incognegro]

Jhonno said:

Andy_mr2sc said:

Just read this. A standard healthy 4l produces 350/360hp atf. Apart from the extra 500cc and refined management, what else is done to the engine to achieve a ~33% power gain? Bearing in mind these engines are in a relatively high state of tune from the factory, that's quite a power hike.

I think the key is, it seems the Powers dyno would read 360bhp @TW for a standard one.. So would probaly be more like 15% gain.

Best way to answer any of this is the standard 4L from factory using weaker heavier parts was strong but even the Powers 4L rebuild (which I had done to my fathers Cerb was instantly better).

Now the 4.5 using significantly more lighter and stronger parts (which in themselves add efficiency) added to the increase of capacity seems to make these higher figures. Perhaps the figures lie but none the less they were the figures produced so please don't question my sanity lol

Now onto the driving, ever been on the road in your standard s6 and you floor it in almost every gear looking for the limits?? Probably

But that for me is the big diffence as I am in a state where I don't want to go anywhere near the limits of this thing (CERTAINLY ON THE ROAD) as it really is a different ball game now. I suppose a side by side test is the only way to demonstrate/test then you get the argument of oh turn tics off or you had sticky tyres etc

As Chris W says the money spent for 15% is not about the figures being doubted but the total package involved (effectively a new car) but then the alternatives: 1) pay significantly more for one of the LS crates??? they are very strong but not for me thanks and that i wanted from my TVR! 2) Pay significantly more again for the New Breed TVR? With the way its gone in build up and what I would potentially get I decided to save and invest in my beloved Cerb and well the performance increase in the car I love is there for me to see.

Im not trying to push anyone towards Powers other than show them what a Powers upgrade has done for me. Pretty much the same as the LS or FFF write ups.

[Andy_mr2sc]

The best way to answer any of this is yes it's a cracking engine. Smooth, reliable, powerful it is. 482hp it certainly isn't.

[Mark A S]

Dom builds great engines; the big jump in torque is what shoves you up the road a fair bit more over the standard 4 litre making the car feel a lot livelier, certainly induces more wheel spin

[RedSpike66]

The only true way to compare Dyno figures as we all know is to have both cars on the same Dyno within about 15 mins of each other.... Therefore page down to the bottom of this hyperlink https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

to see a direct comparison between a Factory Standard Sag and a TVR Power 4.5SS Sag....

Note: when I had my Sag de-catted and re-mapped by TVR Power we ended up with +5bhp 'at the wheels' figure compared with that Surrey RR figure, but a calculated 'at the fly' figure of north of 400bhp. I can categorically state that de-catting and re-mapping did not get me an extra 40bhp !!!!!!!! And it certainly sounded better but it wasn;t 40bhp faster !!!

it is widely accepted that Powers 'at the wheels' figure is the same as Surrey RR 'at the fly figure' and that the Powers 'at the fly' calculated figure is, well, hopeful shall we say and not 100% accurate

No doubt Incognegro is very happy with the result of his investment and that is what is important... It's great to get better figures but it's nigh on impossible to compare unless they're all on the same dyno

Edited by RedSpike66 on Friday 18th August 16:54

[Incognegro]

It's a lot of fun to drive.

I'll be leaving this one here!

Don't shoot the messenger as they say, figures are what was produced on the dyno and the calculations made I "thought" was logical?

Oh and it's a lot of fun to drive