Simplex Timing Chain conversion Kit Racing Green
Discussion
Anybody out there has installed the Simplex timing chain conversion kit from Racing Green in his speed six who ever had a Problem with cracking of the chain ? Or anybudy who heared about Problems like that ? It also would be interesting to know how many miles have been covered with the simplex chain by those who had no Problems with it.
Hi,
Interesting that you ask this. I read with interest when people refer the kit in rebuilds, they are often reckoned to be the part to have. I have a SP6 without and one with. I have another engine that I am building now and probably wont bother to buy another kit. The theory is good, the engineering smart but I doubt the benefit is worth the expenditure. I fitted it along with balanced rods, pistons, crank, super light flywheel and smaller clutch. I am aware of the risks and the potential for wear but I have not heard of a failure. I have covered 6000 miles I reckon. A belt is a much better idea and I did start looking for pulleys, belts and tensioners to make one up, welding the timing cover up a bit and machining out for oil seals is a big ask but it could be done, I gave up.
Have you had a failure? Which chain? What is left?
J
Interesting that you ask this. I read with interest when people refer the kit in rebuilds, they are often reckoned to be the part to have. I have a SP6 without and one with. I have another engine that I am building now and probably wont bother to buy another kit. The theory is good, the engineering smart but I doubt the benefit is worth the expenditure. I fitted it along with balanced rods, pistons, crank, super light flywheel and smaller clutch. I am aware of the risks and the potential for wear but I have not heard of a failure. I have covered 6000 miles I reckon. A belt is a much better idea and I did start looking for pulleys, belts and tensioners to make one up, welding the timing cover up a bit and machining out for oil seals is a big ask but it could be done, I gave up.
Have you had a failure? Which chain? What is left?
J
Hi Sagy Badger,
had a failure at the top chain immedeate after an rebuild with extensive modifications (Crankshaft, Pistons, Conrods, Cylinderhead, Timing chain kit, Motor management). Work has been done at a specialist in Germany, but engine has been put out and back in at another workshop who also was ought to checking for oil pressure at starter speed, which is about 280 rpm. While installing the new engine management it came out that there msut be something wrong with the engine. The result were 4 bent valves and a cracked chain. As non of the two who have worked on it wanted to be the polluter the first protection assertion was that the changing to simplex chain would be the cause. As I was convinced that this is impossible, even if the engine would have been started and running under normal conditions, I started this topic and also contacted Racing Green where I was assured that there is absolutly no problerm like this known, neither on street using cars nor on racing cars.
But after a few days thinking about it the man who had build the engine revised his assessment and assumes now that the cracked chain was not the cause but the result for the Problem. As the throttle linkade was disconected with the throttles opened for 3/4 when he got the engine back and combustion indications had been found after striping the engine he assumes that it has been started for oil pressure checking and made his very first movements in this status. This could be an imaginable cause for the touchdown of one ore various valves and the cracking of the chain as an result of this.
Last but not least it was blessing in disguise as the pistons and all other stuff survived whereby the damage is manageable.
had a failure at the top chain immedeate after an rebuild with extensive modifications (Crankshaft, Pistons, Conrods, Cylinderhead, Timing chain kit, Motor management). Work has been done at a specialist in Germany, but engine has been put out and back in at another workshop who also was ought to checking for oil pressure at starter speed, which is about 280 rpm. While installing the new engine management it came out that there msut be something wrong with the engine. The result were 4 bent valves and a cracked chain. As non of the two who have worked on it wanted to be the polluter the first protection assertion was that the changing to simplex chain would be the cause. As I was convinced that this is impossible, even if the engine would have been started and running under normal conditions, I started this topic and also contacted Racing Green where I was assured that there is absolutly no problerm like this known, neither on street using cars nor on racing cars.
But after a few days thinking about it the man who had build the engine revised his assessment and assumes now that the cracked chain was not the cause but the result for the Problem. As the throttle linkade was disconected with the throttles opened for 3/4 when he got the engine back and combustion indications had been found after striping the engine he assumes that it has been started for oil pressure checking and made his very first movements in this status. This could be an imaginable cause for the touchdown of one ore various valves and the cracking of the chain as an result of this.
Last but not least it was blessing in disguise as the pistons and all other stuff survived whereby the damage is manageable.
I have the simplex kit and FFF2 head and I'm now 3k since rebuild and all is well. Sounds like it maybe hasn't had the oil feed fitted correctly? It is a little fiddly but straight forward enough. Or the half time shaft cog arrangement hasn't been fitted properly and it's been running out of line.
Other than that, the top chain is just being driven by the half time chain, and spinning the cams, which is very little effort for a chain of that size.
Other than that, the top chain is just being driven by the half time chain, and spinning the cams, which is very little effort for a chain of that size.
[quote=schüppe]Hi Sagy Badger,
had a failure at the top chain immedeate after an rebuild with extensive modifications (Crankshaft, Pistons, Conrods, Cylinderhead, Timing chain kit, Motor management). Work has been done at a specialist in Germany, but engine has been put out and back in at another workshop who also was ought to checking for oil pressure at starter speed, which is about 280 rpm. While installing the new engine management it came out that there msut be something wrong with the engine. The result were 4 bent valves and a cracked chain. As non of the two who have worked on it wanted to be the polluter the first protection assertion was that the changing to simplex chain would be the cause. As I was convinced that this is impossible, even if the engine would have been started and running under normal conditions, I started this topic and also contacted Racing Green where I was assured that there is absolutly no problerm like this known, neither on street using cars nor on racing cars.
But after a few days thinking about it the man who had build the engine revised his assessment and assumes now that the cracked chain was not the cause but the result for the Problem. As the throttle linkade was disconected with the throttles opened for 3/4 when he got the engine back and combustion indications had been found after striping the engine he assumes that it has been started for oil pressure checking and made his very first movements in this status. This could be an imaginable cause for the touchdown of one ore various valves and the cracking of the chain as an result of this.
Last but not least it was blessing in disguise as the pistons and all other stuff survived whereby the damage is manageable.
[/quote]
It is the easiest way for the workshop to blame faulty material if an engine goes bang.
As of course at the end of the day nobody was it and the customer has to fork out some more bucks to get the mess fixed again.
Based on my experience there are only a few good engine builders out there and a lot of those so called we can do it builders but once you run into problems....... plenty of excuses and duck and cover........ i do recall some crazy stories of the nearby past...... get an engine done by somebody that has experience with it. means engine on a pallet over to the UK. will save you money and time. or at best get the whole car over as if there is any problem with it the guy that put the engine back in again will blame the builder for any fault or the builder will blame the guy that put the engine in for it
had a failure at the top chain immedeate after an rebuild with extensive modifications (Crankshaft, Pistons, Conrods, Cylinderhead, Timing chain kit, Motor management). Work has been done at a specialist in Germany, but engine has been put out and back in at another workshop who also was ought to checking for oil pressure at starter speed, which is about 280 rpm. While installing the new engine management it came out that there msut be something wrong with the engine. The result were 4 bent valves and a cracked chain. As non of the two who have worked on it wanted to be the polluter the first protection assertion was that the changing to simplex chain would be the cause. As I was convinced that this is impossible, even if the engine would have been started and running under normal conditions, I started this topic and also contacted Racing Green where I was assured that there is absolutly no problerm like this known, neither on street using cars nor on racing cars.
But after a few days thinking about it the man who had build the engine revised his assessment and assumes now that the cracked chain was not the cause but the result for the Problem. As the throttle linkade was disconected with the throttles opened for 3/4 when he got the engine back and combustion indications had been found after striping the engine he assumes that it has been started for oil pressure checking and made his very first movements in this status. This could be an imaginable cause for the touchdown of one ore various valves and the cracking of the chain as an result of this.
Last but not least it was blessing in disguise as the pistons and all other stuff survived whereby the damage is manageable.
[/quote]
It is the easiest way for the workshop to blame faulty material if an engine goes bang.
As of course at the end of the day nobody was it and the customer has to fork out some more bucks to get the mess fixed again.
Based on my experience there are only a few good engine builders out there and a lot of those so called we can do it builders but once you run into problems....... plenty of excuses and duck and cover........ i do recall some crazy stories of the nearby past...... get an engine done by somebody that has experience with it. means engine on a pallet over to the UK. will save you money and time. or at best get the whole car over as if there is any problem with it the guy that put the engine back in again will blame the builder for any fault or the builder will blame the guy that put the engine in for it
Hi gacksen,
it is as you say, if there is more than one involved in such a case at first nobody wants to assume responsibility and yes it probable would have been better getting the car over to Racing Green, especially because the most parts has been purchased from them. I have had decided against this becaue I know that it can become a big Problem enforcing legal claims in another country even within Europe, in case this would become necessary and for any possible needed rework I would have to take a few days off. In any case I would always fix a written agreement for such an extensive rebuild in the future.
Meanwhile all parties concerned have ben calmed down and recognized that one of tham must have screwed up in this case and that they have to accept responsibillity for it now. So I am hopefully that it soon comes to an satisfying end.
it is as you say, if there is more than one involved in such a case at first nobody wants to assume responsibility and yes it probable would have been better getting the car over to Racing Green, especially because the most parts has been purchased from them. I have had decided against this becaue I know that it can become a big Problem enforcing legal claims in another country even within Europe, in case this would become necessary and for any possible needed rework I would have to take a few days off. In any case I would always fix a written agreement for such an extensive rebuild in the future.
Meanwhile all parties concerned have ben calmed down and recognized that one of tham must have screwed up in this case and that they have to accept responsibillity for it now. So I am hopefully that it soon comes to an satisfying end.
[quote=schüppe]Hi gacksen,
it is as you say, if there is more than one involved in such a case at first nobody wants to assume responsibility and yes it probable would have been better getting the car over to Racing Green, especially because the most parts has been purchased from them. I have had decided against this becaue I know that it can become a big Problem enforcing legal claims in another country even within Europe, in case this would become necessary and for any possible needed rework I would have to take a few days off. In any case I would always fix a written agreement for such an extensive rebuild in the future.
Meanwhile all parties concerned have ben calmed down and recognized that one of tham must have screwed up in this case and that they have to accept responsibillity for it now. So I am hopefully that it soon comes to an satisfying end.
[/quote]
"In any case I would always fix a written agreement for such an extensive rebuild in the future." no workshop will sign that
"that they have to accept responsibillity for it now" as long as it does not cost any money they will for sure
the problem is in regards of modifications there is no legal claim. easiest loophole for any workshop the old material failure story once they have screwed up. in general there is no material failure but as most of the workshops claim to be "perfect" it is easier for them to blame somebody elese for their own fault. beeing in front of court with such a case i do not see that much gains as it will take a long time to get anything done.
as an example...... had a rover rebuilt at 50% percent of the UK price at respectable sources..... engine went bang first time.... second time bang .... third time bang.....if you add up all the costs time and grey hair don´t save on the wrong end got to people that know what they are doing instead of saving or relying "of course we can do it or make it work" speeches from workshops that dont have any clue. if i would have paid the same sum in the beginning my engine would be running
lesson learned..... next time straight to the UK for major engine work.
it is as you say, if there is more than one involved in such a case at first nobody wants to assume responsibility and yes it probable would have been better getting the car over to Racing Green, especially because the most parts has been purchased from them. I have had decided against this becaue I know that it can become a big Problem enforcing legal claims in another country even within Europe, in case this would become necessary and for any possible needed rework I would have to take a few days off. In any case I would always fix a written agreement for such an extensive rebuild in the future.
Meanwhile all parties concerned have ben calmed down and recognized that one of tham must have screwed up in this case and that they have to accept responsibillity for it now. So I am hopefully that it soon comes to an satisfying end.
[/quote]
"In any case I would always fix a written agreement for such an extensive rebuild in the future." no workshop will sign that
"that they have to accept responsibillity for it now" as long as it does not cost any money they will for sure
the problem is in regards of modifications there is no legal claim. easiest loophole for any workshop the old material failure story once they have screwed up. in general there is no material failure but as most of the workshops claim to be "perfect" it is easier for them to blame somebody elese for their own fault. beeing in front of court with such a case i do not see that much gains as it will take a long time to get anything done.
as an example...... had a rover rebuilt at 50% percent of the UK price at respectable sources..... engine went bang first time.... second time bang .... third time bang.....if you add up all the costs time and grey hair don´t save on the wrong end got to people that know what they are doing instead of saving or relying "of course we can do it or make it work" speeches from workshops that dont have any clue. if i would have paid the same sum in the beginning my engine would be running
lesson learned..... next time straight to the UK for major engine work.
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