And another goes POP!...well cough, rattle.....
Discussion
Well folks it was as JSG has said about most S6 engines.....Only a case of when, not IF.
Having spoken with TVR Craft and discovered more, I now know what tell tall signs were there before the obligatory top end clattering started. Its a case of if you knew what to listen and look out for. Time for failure I reckon is mainly down to how hard you push the engine and how often.
I do not wish to create scare mongering within these pages.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, especially if you regularly explore the engines power range... email me.
Its off to TVR Craft for my Tusc.
G
Having spoken with TVR Craft and discovered more, I now know what tell tall signs were there before the obligatory top end clattering started. Its a case of if you knew what to listen and look out for. Time for failure I reckon is mainly down to how hard you push the engine and how often.
I do not wish to create scare mongering within these pages.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, especially if you regularly explore the engines power range... email me.
Its off to TVR Craft for my Tusc.
G
mine too yesterday the bad news. worst case scenario £5000 and the warranty does not cover "fair wear and tear" i have yet to complete 6000 miles and the total mileage is 19000 rebuild 02 and head gasket replaced may 05..why did they not detect the problem 300 miles or so ago then at TVR power? very disappointed.would any one in their right mind keep it or more to the point buy one. is it unsaleable even when rebuild 2 and a half completed?
yzf1070 said:
Well folks it was as JSG has said about most S6 engines.....Only a case of when, not IF.
Having spoken with TVR Craft and discovered more, I now know what tell tall signs were there before the obligatory top end clattering started. Its a case of if you knew what to listen and look out for. Time for failure I reckon is mainly down to how hard you push the engine and how often.
I do not wish to create scare mongering within these pages.
If anyone is interested in knowing more, especially if you regularly explore the engines power range... email me.
Its off to TVR Craft for my Tusc.
G
Graham, YHM.
it is all very fine and large being cheerful about the cars but the truth is that tuscan 1 prices have plummeted with the introduction of the 2 and the reliability is a genuine issue.that said no one buys such a toy as an investment. it is great when it works but frankly and hand on heart if i had my time over again i would not touch one with a barge pole and it is too early to say if the tuscan 2 is not to be a similar disaster. there is no point fooling yourself. i fear that clarkson was right and it is a waste of space. i will think long and hard before i keep it heart says yes...BUT
the issue really is simple.I had a chimaera and I liked it I liked the Tuscan more and bought one or rather traded it in and gave them lots of money last year before tuscans became cheap ..loss of maybe on resale today £12k. Enthousiastic and foolish maybe but that is the passion... the thing has been a pain in the arse quite frankly. Electrical problems recon gear box etc etc most of the miles being on low loader or driving back to the garage! What do I do now? Well as I said I love the tuscan but it is so unreliable that I fear it will have to go BUT I think it will be a pig to off load
Guys
There is to be a presentation arranged and paid for by TVR Craft Al Melling will be the spoke person. Venue to be some where around Salisbury proposed as 14th August (not yet fully comfirmed they are worried about attendances, will there be too many people or will there be only a few?!?). I understand that Al Melling is going to discuss the AJP V8 and the history of the Speed 6. I do not know exactly what the details are that will be discussed, but there will be a questions and answer session after the presentation.
Upon reflection the tell tale signs for me were:
Sudden erratic and unwilling to tick over on cold start up. This seemed to get worse.
If I did not catch it quite right on cold start up, it would cough and splutter(a sort of pop in the inlet manifold which in hind sight points to a bent inlet valve which is sticking slightly open)
Once warmed up the car would restart easy and tick over fine.
Dropping a gear and full open throttle it would sometimes hessitate and then clear as if an HT lead was momentarily breaking down.
The car does not use any oil at all. Which suggests that the bent valve has happened fairly recently in so much as the valve guides have not yet worn sufficiently enough for the seals to pass oil.
Having spoken with TVR Craft about the mods they carry out, I have absolutely no faith in any TVR factory affiliated repair. Such a repair is going to be a rebuild only using exactly the same configuration, so I am not going to waste my money or time in that route. The fixes that TVR Craft descrivbed to me make complete sense. Moreover, as they explained the fixes to me it all fell into place with regards to the symptoms of my engine. The fixes TVR Craft described to me, replaces everything to do with the valve train, whilst retaining the standard camshafts. I will not go into anymore detail than that. If anyone wants more info on the fixes, I suggest you call TVR craft and reserve a place at the forth coming presentation. Incidentally they have 4 Speed 6's in at the moment waiting on new parts, They are about to receive a 5th on monday....mine.
I believe that if you do not regularly push the engine hard your S6 may well last years and 1000's of miles, but if like me you enjoy the potentials of this car, your motor is on borrowed time.....that is MY opinion of the matter.
I would like to add that I ALWAYS warm the engine thouroghly before reving it hard. Before it is warmed up it is short shifted and does not exceed 2500 to 30 deg C and 3500 up to fully warmed OIL temp (on mine around 60-65 deg C depending on climate and traffic.
I hope this helps some of you.
G
There is to be a presentation arranged and paid for by TVR Craft Al Melling will be the spoke person. Venue to be some where around Salisbury proposed as 14th August (not yet fully comfirmed they are worried about attendances, will there be too many people or will there be only a few?!?). I understand that Al Melling is going to discuss the AJP V8 and the history of the Speed 6. I do not know exactly what the details are that will be discussed, but there will be a questions and answer session after the presentation.
Upon reflection the tell tale signs for me were:
Sudden erratic and unwilling to tick over on cold start up. This seemed to get worse.
If I did not catch it quite right on cold start up, it would cough and splutter(a sort of pop in the inlet manifold which in hind sight points to a bent inlet valve which is sticking slightly open)
Once warmed up the car would restart easy and tick over fine.
Dropping a gear and full open throttle it would sometimes hessitate and then clear as if an HT lead was momentarily breaking down.
The car does not use any oil at all. Which suggests that the bent valve has happened fairly recently in so much as the valve guides have not yet worn sufficiently enough for the seals to pass oil.
Having spoken with TVR Craft about the mods they carry out, I have absolutely no faith in any TVR factory affiliated repair. Such a repair is going to be a rebuild only using exactly the same configuration, so I am not going to waste my money or time in that route. The fixes that TVR Craft descrivbed to me make complete sense. Moreover, as they explained the fixes to me it all fell into place with regards to the symptoms of my engine. The fixes TVR Craft described to me, replaces everything to do with the valve train, whilst retaining the standard camshafts. I will not go into anymore detail than that. If anyone wants more info on the fixes, I suggest you call TVR craft and reserve a place at the forth coming presentation. Incidentally they have 4 Speed 6's in at the moment waiting on new parts, They are about to receive a 5th on monday....mine.
I believe that if you do not regularly push the engine hard your S6 may well last years and 1000's of miles, but if like me you enjoy the potentials of this car, your motor is on borrowed time.....that is MY opinion of the matter.
I would like to add that I ALWAYS warm the engine thouroghly before reving it hard. Before it is warmed up it is short shifted and does not exceed 2500 to 30 deg C and 3500 up to fully warmed OIL temp (on mine around 60-65 deg C depending on climate and traffic.
I hope this helps some of you.
G
Sorry to hear the bad news is still on going.We had one of the very first speed6 engined cars way back in 1999 and after it let go with just 6000 miles under its belt (always warmed up,never,never driven hard or even near the rev limiter) and went again just 6 months later.I think we were one of the very first Pistonheaders to slate the poor internal oil way design and other aspects of the engine.We off loaded the car soon after and I can remember the slagging off we got from other TIV owners (usual stuff like....it,s a friday pm car,well mines fine, you didn,t warm it up,you drove it to hard) I had an ex tvr engineer back then describe the floors in the design,and so all the flack about "poor batch finger followers" was just a smoke screen.
I guess the point i want to make it that I feel so angry even 5 years later that such fantatic looking and sounding cars have been scared by this poxy engine.Things could and should have been turned around and adrressed years ago, and now it seems that one of the last BRITISH CAR COMPANY,s is almost being brought to its knees.TVR has lost many many customers through this speed6 but even to this day things have gone so far that to withdraw the engine would spell failure for the company,yet to gone on with it?
If TVR do go under (and I hope they don,t) I think we all know what and who the history book will blame. RIP...my awsome popping,banging Yellow Cerb, you were a joy to own and drive when you worked!......................wonder where you are now?
I guess the point i want to make it that I feel so angry even 5 years later that such fantatic looking and sounding cars have been scared by this poxy engine.Things could and should have been turned around and adrressed years ago, and now it seems that one of the last BRITISH CAR COMPANY,s is almost being brought to its knees.TVR has lost many many customers through this speed6 but even to this day things have gone so far that to withdraw the engine would spell failure for the company,yet to gone on with it?
If TVR do go under (and I hope they don,t) I think we all know what and who the history book will blame. RIP...my awsome popping,banging Yellow Cerb, you were a joy to own and drive when you worked!......................wonder where you are now?
This is really the whole problem.
The engine, by it's design, makes a myriad rattles, knocks, etc. Even when it's running well.
So how the hell are you supposed to enjoy the car, at all, especially if you've just bought one, when you read posts like this?!?!?!?!
Granted there were {ahem} slight operational niggles with earlier engines, but you don't hear nearly so many gripes with later ones, and if you think Tivs are alone in engine problems, try reading some of the other (exotic) forums.
The enjoyment it gives you when it works (and for every "...mines gone wrong!" post, there are many "...so glad I bought one!" ), I reckon more than outweighs the worrying!
No-one should buy into something like this with their eyes shut, and if that's the case, and you're prepared (both emotionally and financially) for the up's and the down's, then you'll spend a lot more time enjoying the car and less worrying about every little squeak, rattle, etc.
>> Edited by nelly1 on Sunday 3rd July 10:20
The engine, by it's design, makes a myriad rattles, knocks, etc. Even when it's running well.
So how the hell are you supposed to enjoy the car, at all, especially if you've just bought one, when you read posts like this?!?!?!?!
Granted there were {ahem} slight operational niggles with earlier engines, but you don't hear nearly so many gripes with later ones, and if you think Tivs are alone in engine problems, try reading some of the other (exotic) forums.
The enjoyment it gives you when it works (and for every "...mines gone wrong!" post, there are many "...so glad I bought one!" ), I reckon more than outweighs the worrying!
No-one should buy into something like this with their eyes shut, and if that's the case, and you're prepared (both emotionally and financially) for the up's and the down's, then you'll spend a lot more time enjoying the car and less worrying about every little squeak, rattle, etc.
>> Edited by nelly1 on Sunday 3rd July 10:20
nelly1 said:
This is really the whole problem.
The engine, by it's design, makes a myriad rattles, knocks, etc. Even when it's running well.
So how the hell are you supposed to enjoy the car, at all, especially if you've just bought one, when you read posts like this?!?!?!?!
Granted there were {ahem} slight operational niggles with earlier engines, but you don't hear nearly so many gripes with later ones, and if you think Tivs are alone in engine problems, try reading some of the other (exotic) forums.
The enjoyment it gives you when it works (and for every "...mines gone wrong!" post, there are many "...so glad I bought one!", I reckon more than outweighs the worrying!
No-one should buy into something like this with their eyes shut, and if that's the case, and you're prepared (both emotionally and financially) for the up's and the down's, then you'll spend a lot more time enjoying the car and less worrying about every little squeak, rattle, etc.
Well said and in complete agreement.Graham,
Not sure if your symtoms are what you have concluded, or what you've been advised by Mellings and Co.
Not necessarily. That is something a perfectly normal engine will do.
I'd be very surprised if would idle smoothly with a bent valve.
And an HT lead or throttle body adjustment is what it proably was.
Your opinion, but not in line with much current thinking on the engine.
You started the post by not wanting to start any scare mongering, I'm not sure you achieved your objective. Your definition of the road to pending terminal failure is very misleading.
I wish all well that are involved in the endevours of Mr Mellings and co. I hope the TVR Craft outlet does give another option when rebuilds are required, or upgrades desired.
>> Edited by daftlad on Sunday 3rd July 11:11
Not sure if your symtoms are what you have concluded, or what you've been advised by Mellings and Co.
yzf1070 said:
If I did not catch it quite right on cold start up, it would cough and splutter(a sort of pop in the inlet manifold which in hind sight points to a bent inlet valve which is sticking slightly open)
Not necessarily. That is something a perfectly normal engine will do.
yzf1070 said:
Once warmed up the car would restart easy and tick over fine.
I'd be very surprised if would idle smoothly with a bent valve.
yzf1070 said:
Dropping a gear and full open throttle it would sometimes hessitate and then clear as if an HT lead was momentarily breaking down.
And an HT lead or throttle body adjustment is what it proably was.
yzf1070 said:
I believe that if you do not regularly push the engine hard your S6 may well last years and 1000's of miles, but if like me you enjoy the potentials of this car, your motor is on borrowed time.....that is MY opinion of the matter.
Your opinion, but not in line with much current thinking on the engine.
You started the post by not wanting to start any scare mongering, I'm not sure you achieved your objective. Your definition of the road to pending terminal failure is very misleading.
I wish all well that are involved in the endevours of Mr Mellings and co. I hope the TVR Craft outlet does give another option when rebuilds are required, or upgrades desired.
>> Edited by daftlad on Sunday 3rd July 11:11
Daft Lad, Nelly,
I am simply offering my opinion and my S6 experiences and I did try to imply that not all others are going to experience the same, read between the lines.
My S6 has gone pop at just over 6K miles from new. I had read the other posts, I knew exactly what I was getting into when I bought the car and I have the finances to get it fixed and I am niether worried nore concerned. I wish to keep the car once fixed as I LOVE it.
I have a fair ammount of experience with tuning high performance motorcycle engines to know what I have posted is a fairly accurate account of the sypmtoms experienced. With out a strip down and inspection then I will speculate no further....I said it was and is my opinion.
I received a whole heap of emails asking for more info, so I decided to repost.(By the way your wrong, an engine will tick over fine with a bent valve, it depends on where and how badly bent...seen it before on a Turbo Hyabusa and a 3000GT TT I owned).
The info is there to use or disregard....that is yours and everyone elses perogative. Take it or leave it.
By the way are you intending to go to the TVR Craft presentation? I would like to meet and discuss the subject further, hopefully by then I will know more about mine.
Regards to all
G
I am simply offering my opinion and my S6 experiences and I did try to imply that not all others are going to experience the same, read between the lines.
My S6 has gone pop at just over 6K miles from new. I had read the other posts, I knew exactly what I was getting into when I bought the car and I have the finances to get it fixed and I am niether worried nore concerned. I wish to keep the car once fixed as I LOVE it.
I have a fair ammount of experience with tuning high performance motorcycle engines to know what I have posted is a fairly accurate account of the sypmtoms experienced. With out a strip down and inspection then I will speculate no further....I said it was and is my opinion.
I received a whole heap of emails asking for more info, so I decided to repost.(By the way your wrong, an engine will tick over fine with a bent valve, it depends on where and how badly bent...seen it before on a Turbo Hyabusa and a 3000GT TT I owned).
The info is there to use or disregard....that is yours and everyone elses perogative. Take it or leave it.
By the way are you intending to go to the TVR Craft presentation? I would like to meet and discuss the subject further, hopefully by then I will know more about mine.
Regards to all
G
yzf1070 said:
By the way are you intending to go to the TVR Craft presentation? I would like to meet and discuss the subject further.
Graham,
I'll agree to disagree on the symptoms.
I've no intention of going to the discussion. I've got mixed views on the reliability upgrade. That's not to say I'm totally dis-interested more a case of not needed to go shopping when theres nothing I need to buy.
If/when mine goes bump (dont subscribe to the JSG theory) I will maybe take a look in TVRCrafts direction and maybe then, thanks to the faith of the intial batch of customers, they'll have some hands on experinece of the engine.
Maybe catch up with you at one of the local TVRCC meetings and I hope you get your motor sorted without too agro.
Cheers
John
>> Edited by daftlad on Sunday 3rd July 12:02
nelly1 said:
This is really the whole problem.
The engine, by it's design, makes a myriad rattles, knocks, etc. Even when it's running well.
I also have a 1979 Laverda triple, the Lamborghini of motorcycles. That engine makes very similar rattles, knocks, coughs, clankings - you name it - to my Tuscan. The Laverda engine revs to 8000. I fact strap 2 of them together and do a bit of tuning and I reckon you'd have a close approximation of the S6 LOL.
The Laverda has done 80,000 miles since new without a rebuild. It's basically unburstable. Sometimes those noises are nothing more than the sign of a strong and characterful engine.
Sorry to hear about more S6 woes. I think it all pays for us to keep informed of problems and solutions in case it happens to us. I find it difficult to comment on the S6 design and whether it has inherent design flaws OR manufacturing quality issues.
I did put a post up, the 'myths and misconceptions' thread around May 2004. This was following a meeting with a senior person at TVR who did a very good job in putting my mind at ease. Basically, he put down the majority of problems to component failure or engine abuse and went on to add that there is no such thing as a '2003' or '2004' spec rebuild. Frankly, I don't know what to believe now. On the whole though, from recent information, it would suggest that TVR rebuilds have been done to original specification but, allegedly, using better quality components. Even engines that have been repaired by TVR Power do not appear to be infallible though, so may be its a combination of design and use that brings problems to the surface.
TVR have indeed pinned their future to the S6 and with the successful participation at Le Mans and future thoughts (in TVR years of course) of supercharged engines, there must be something very attractive about the design. For those that have received this month's copy of Sprint, just look at the rolling road report - the S6 topped the 4.7 litre Cerbera AJP V8 for bhp and was just about the same in terms of torque. Get a good one, and you have a great engine. Albeit, that is not much consoltaion for those who have incurred problems with theirs.
I really hope we can get to the bottom of this saga to understand what the truth is, why problems happen and what can be done to fix them. Several aftermarket specialists are latching on to S6 fixes, but who is to say is right, and will stand by their work for several 10,000s of miles? At £5K for a rebuild and 'upgrade', I think we should be getting some good answers as well as peace of mind.
I hope the Al Melling presentation furnishes these answers so we can start to put the past behind us and get on with enjoying these fabulous cars. I also have a niggling feeling when listening to the tappety engine and think to myself, 'is that normal or not?'. I even ask the wife, 'does it sound any different to how you remember it?' just to put my own mind at ease.
One thing that is for sure though, I will use the car as much as I want regardless of what 'may' happen to it. There seems little point in fixing something that ain't broke (especially for £5K), until I certainly know what it is.
Good luck with getting it fixed and I look forward to hearing the report back after the presentation from those lucky enough to be able to attend.
I did put a post up, the 'myths and misconceptions' thread around May 2004. This was following a meeting with a senior person at TVR who did a very good job in putting my mind at ease. Basically, he put down the majority of problems to component failure or engine abuse and went on to add that there is no such thing as a '2003' or '2004' spec rebuild. Frankly, I don't know what to believe now. On the whole though, from recent information, it would suggest that TVR rebuilds have been done to original specification but, allegedly, using better quality components. Even engines that have been repaired by TVR Power do not appear to be infallible though, so may be its a combination of design and use that brings problems to the surface.
TVR have indeed pinned their future to the S6 and with the successful participation at Le Mans and future thoughts (in TVR years of course) of supercharged engines, there must be something very attractive about the design. For those that have received this month's copy of Sprint, just look at the rolling road report - the S6 topped the 4.7 litre Cerbera AJP V8 for bhp and was just about the same in terms of torque. Get a good one, and you have a great engine. Albeit, that is not much consoltaion for those who have incurred problems with theirs.
I really hope we can get to the bottom of this saga to understand what the truth is, why problems happen and what can be done to fix them. Several aftermarket specialists are latching on to S6 fixes, but who is to say is right, and will stand by their work for several 10,000s of miles? At £5K for a rebuild and 'upgrade', I think we should be getting some good answers as well as peace of mind.
I hope the Al Melling presentation furnishes these answers so we can start to put the past behind us and get on with enjoying these fabulous cars. I also have a niggling feeling when listening to the tappety engine and think to myself, 'is that normal or not?'. I even ask the wife, 'does it sound any different to how you remember it?' just to put my own mind at ease.
One thing that is for sure though, I will use the car as much as I want regardless of what 'may' happen to it. There seems little point in fixing something that ain't broke (especially for £5K), until I certainly know what it is.
Good luck with getting it fixed and I look forward to hearing the report back after the presentation from those lucky enough to be able to attend.
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