And another goes POP!...well cough, rattle.....

[ggt]

CerbyT said:

nelly1 said: This is really the whole problem. The engine, by it's design, makes a myriad rattles, knocks, etc. Even when it's running well. So how the hell are you supposed to enjoy the car, at all, especially if you've just bought one, when you read posts like this?!?!?!?! Granted there were {ahem} slight operational niggles with earlier engines, but you don't hear nearly so many gripes with later ones, and if you think Tivs are alone in engine problems, try reading some of the other (exotic) forums. The enjoyment it gives you when it works (and for every "...mines gone wrong!" post, there are many "...so glad I bought one!", I reckon more than outweighs the worrying! No-one should buy into something like this with their eyes shut, and if that's the case, and you're prepared (both emotionally and financially) for the up's and the down's, then you'll spend a lot more time enjoying the car and less worrying about every little squeak, rattle, etc. Well said and in complete agreement.

ditto Who is to say that a (tvr craft rebuild is going to be any good, has anybody done over 6000 miles on there rebuild yet, and what warranty are they going to offer

>> Edited by ggt on Monday 4th July 17:45

[red rose]

Hi GGT

Autocraft rebuild the Speed 6 engine to a spec developed with MCD (the original designers) - making a number of modifications compared to the production version of the engine used in our cars.

As yet, no rebuilds have been delivered to customers (I know, because my car is the first, and it is still 2 or 3 weeks away), but you are correct - we won't be able to be sure until a number of cars have completed serious miles without problem.

Obviously I (and I guess the owners of the other cars that are "in progress" at Autocraft) thought carefully before going to Autocraft instead of Blackpool. I spoke to the guys (and MCD), received all the info I wanted (dunno how much I understood - but they were very open and friendly) and am happy that I have made the right decision.

If you are unfortunate enough to be in the market for a rebuild, I strongly suggest you speak to Autocraft, and compare their offering with those from TVR etc.

Cheers
Ian

[Mr Freefall]

red rose said:

Hi GGT Autocraft rebuild the Speed 6 engine to a spec developed with MCD (the original designers) - making a number of modifications compared to the production version of the engine used in our cars. As yet, no rebuilds have been delivered to customers (I know, because my car is the first, and it is still 2 or 3 weeks away), but you are correct - we won't be able to be sure until a number of cars have completed serious miles without problem. Obviously I (and I guess the owners of the other cars that are "in progress" at Autocraft) thought carefully before going to Autocraft instead of Blackpool. I spoke to the guys (and MCD), received all the info I wanted (dunno how much I understood - but they were very open and friendly) and am happy that I have made the right decision. If you are unfortunate enough to be in the market for a rebuild, I strongly suggest you speak to Autocraft, and compare their offering with those from TVR etc. Cheers Ian

What I want to know is, IF the TVR Speed 6 has a design fault, and you pay TVR power or the factory for that matter for a rebuild, are they just replacing the parts, or, are they modifying the engines to correct the problems.

If you listen to the TVR craft option, EVERY speed six is due a failure, regardless, its not a case of IF but when...

Not wanting to stir things up, but if the engines had a fault, EVERY TVR SPEED 6 Engine is a time bomb, just waiting, and can you really see TVR, as this is there only engine now, letting this be the case???

I dont know if we will ever find out, but good luck to TVR Craft on this one...

Mr F

[nsparey]

UpTheIron said:

I hear you John. I've half heartedly been looking for a replacement for my Tuscan for the past few months...the S6 issues give me the odd sleepless night, but I don't really see a Noble, 996 (Turbo or GT3) or similar being cheaper to run.

I just changed mine, looked at all the cars you have listed, in the end I bought the latest low milage Cerb I could find. My Tuscan was 100% relible in the 11 months from new that we owned it but you have to wonder at the dealers confidence in them, you would be shocked at what some dealers offered for a 11 month old, factory serviced S in a good colour with 4K on it! got a good deal with a dealer I was happy with in the end. Its the if and when that gets you in the end, I had a year left on the warranty but what after that? Tried a Tuscan 2 with "improved build quality" my ar*e, didnt even finsh the test drive as bits were falling off! so in a years time what do I put my faith in next?

[WYSIWYG]

Is there a date (eg: post 2003) where these things get noticebly better / more reliable. What are the stats of later cars going bang?

[yzf1070]

I offer this up for thought. AGAIN...this is MY outlook on the issue.

The reason why I have gone the TVR Craft route is simply that my 2003 S has failed...a supposed factory fixed era engine.... and it is out of warranty. I have read many threads on Dealer/Factory rebuilt engines also failing after having had the proposed latest factory parts......common sense suggests there has to be a rabbit away there somewhere....!

My discipline is that of an Instrumentation Controls Engineer and I understand a lot about electronics and mechanics. I have played around with a fair number of engines seeking higher power gains so know enough about the involved technologies. I spoke with the TVR Craft crew and liked what I heard. So I went to see and liked what I saw. Sure the guys before me and I are the guinea pigs. I am sure they like I, just want a fix that works. I love my car and want to keep it...in WORKING order. To me it’s obvious the factory is continually sweeping this issue under the carpet whilst remaining tight lipped, to me they have an obligation to address the matter with the customers even on an individual basis. I am not going to waste my sterling with them, especially having seen the factory standard items and the available alternative components. I can see a like for like fix is prone to fail again, just looking at the difference in parts and having the design functionality explained to me.

I dropped my car off at TVR Craft yesterday and spent a good few hours down there with them. My car was run up on their rolling road and produced some strange noises; it seemed to be pinking something terrible at high load and the clatter was intermittent. Much less frequent than before. It is still not easy to start from cold though. They will not know for sure what is wrong until they get it apart.

They also showed me the difference between the factory spec valves and their replacement valves...just about every aspect of the valve is different, stem diameter is much greater, flow characteristics are different and the seat width is greater. They will replace all of the valve train except the cam shafts with alternative high spec components. They also perform mods to the pistons and improve oil distribution around the head. There are quite a lot of other issues combined that we discussed. For curious/interested owners who wish to know more, they are happy to receive calls and discuss.

I am optimistic and patient. . For those of you that have little faith in the TVR Craft proposed solution, may I suggest that you watch this space. But until otherwise proven, I suggest you look upon this as a positive way forward for a possible alternative to the seemingly continued failings of the factory. I will be the first to share knowledge if the fix does not work on my car. Very soon the fix will be on the road in the cars owned by the guys before me.

Obviously I wish them the very best.

Regards to all
G

[veg]

Boy am I glad I have an RV8 that just keeps on plodding.

Whatever happened to the AJP V8, that seemed to last.

[yzf1070]

Veg,

There's one of those in TVR Craft at the moment with a broken crank....snapped in 3 places and destroyed the clutch. The casting across the broken sections is nothing short of crap...looks like something you would expect to have come from China.

[nelly1]

yzf......you're not really a 'glass half full' man are you?

Seriously tho'...I hope all goes well with your engine and you can start enjoying the car before the nights start drawing in.....How long do they reckon?

[yzf1070]

Neil Thanks for the well wishes.

I fear the nights may have drawn in by the time I get it back.....Seriously, I did not want to press them on a date as they have only just received the new valves for the first motor they got in. They are expecting a big batch delivery very soon...!

I am expecting 2 months, 3 on the outside, but they have promised to keep me informed all along the way. (If not I will pester them to the point of pi55in em off, I did say that I would only pester if they failed to inform). 2-3 months seems a long time I know, but I will soon be off to Baku again and the time will seem to pass more quickly.
I would hope that as they get a more regular supplier production run they will hold packages on the shelf for a quick in and out fix. They really are very positive and are expecting this to take off. so much so that if it does, they are looking to expand premises by taking the unit next door to handle the volume anticipated. Personally I would expect prices to come down as a result as well. 4 to 5K is in my mind an expenssive package once you have a regular supply and service running. I can understand it on initial start up and development.

Regards

G

[yi8tvr]

Mr Freefall said:

red rose said: Hi GGT Autocraft rebuild the Speed 6 engine to a spec developed with MCD (the original designers) - making a number of modifications compared to the production version of the engine used in our cars. As yet, no rebuilds have been delivered to customers (I know, because my car is the first, and it is still 2 or 3 weeks away), but you are correct - we won't be able to be sure until a number of cars have completed serious miles without problem. Obviously I (and I guess the owners of the other cars that are "in progress" at Autocraft) thought carefully before going to Autocraft instead of Blackpool. I spoke to the guys (and MCD), received all the info I wanted (dunno how much I understood - but they were very open and friendly) and am happy that I have made the right decision. If you are unfortunate enough to be in the market for a rebuild, I strongly suggest you speak to Autocraft, and compare their offering with those from TVR etc. Cheers Ian What I want to know is, IF the TVR Speed 6 has a design fault, and you pay TVR power or the factory for that matter for a rebuild, are they just replacing the parts, or, are they modifying the engines to correct the problems. If you listen to the TVR craft option, EVERY speed six is due a failure, regardless, its not a case of IF but when... Not wanting to stir things up, but if the engines had a fault, EVERY TVR SPEED 6 Engine is a time bomb, just waiting, and can you really see TVR, as this is there only engine now, letting this be the case??? I dont know if we will ever find out, but good luck to TVR Craft on this one... Mr F

Hi Mr F

From the feedback ive had is the sp6 is a good solid design by the man himself AM, BUT the powers to be at the time before NS decided in there wisdom to buy cheap components (WHY WILL BE A MYSTERY OF LIFE) to put in this masterpeice of an engine. the followers come in from the peoples republic of China and the crank was made to a very high standard in India whilst the bearings on the cam pulley were made well does it matter i think you have the drift. From 1999 to late 2004 all sp6 engines have these bullit proof components and they will give up the ghost at some point. Now when they do give up bits go everywhere inside your sp6 clogging all sorts including oil ways. When they are re built if the the whole engine is not stripped down and thoroughly washed the chances of bits being left are very high floating around to F*@k you up again. In late 2004 Mr NS decided that the sp6 deserved better organs so as fron late 2004 the sp6 is as good as any other performance engine that should be good for say 50k


Thankyou

Phew.....

>> Edited by yi8tvr on Tuesday 5th July 19:29

[twobulldogs!]

So!I have calmed down and the engine is out of the car, its en route to TVR Power (who apparently use new modified bits to mend them) so when it returns it will be as new and I might as well keep it. The car never featured as an investment so I hope it returns before th summer is over so I can use it for the primary function of fun before it is too late. After all what would replace it a new one but hell only 19k and a "new" engine it is damn well new..watch this space...

[yi8tvr]

twobulldogs! said:

So!I have calmed down and the engine is out of the car, its en route to TVR Power (who apparently use new modified bits to mend them) so when it returns it will be as new and I might as well keep it. The car never featured as an investment so I hope it returns before th summer is over so I can use it for the primary function of fun before it is too late. After all what would replace it a new one but hell only 19k and a "new" engine it is damn well new..watch this space...

Like i said make sure they dont leave anything behind or you will not be out of the woods.

It should be common sense but its time and money..Well penny wise pound stupid in TVR's part

[twobulldogs!]

Que?

[nelly1]

FYI my Tuscan engine was rebuilt by TVR Power at 23k ish. It's just coming up to 32k and apart from normal services (last one being 1k ago), it's not missed a beat.
It's currently at Austec having a couple of sundry niggles sorted, but tomorrow I should have a R.Road graph to prove its rude health.

am I imagining things, or can I hear vultures circling?

[plug]

yi8tvr said:

Hi Mr F From the feedback ive had is the sp6 is a good solid design by the man himself AM, BUT the powers to be at the time before NS decided in there wisdom to buy cheap components (WHY WILL BE A MYSTERY OF LIFE) to put in this masterpeice of an engine. the followers come in from the peoples republic of China and the crank was made to a very high standard in India whilst the bearings on the cam pulley were made well does it matter i think you have the drift. From 1999 to late 2004 all sp6 engines have these bullit proof components and they will give up the ghost at some point. Now when they do give up bits go everywhere inside your sp6 clogging all sorts including oil ways. When they are re built if the the whole engine is not stripped down and thoroughly washed the chances of bits being left are very high floating around to F*@k you up again. In late 2004 Mr NS decided that the sp6 deserved better organs so as fron late 2004 the sp6 is as good as any other performance engine that should be good for say 50k Thankyou Phew..... >> Edited by yi8tvr on Tuesday 5th July 19:29

I hope you are right mine was rebuilt at the end of 2004 after the followers went, it is now going back to power after just 6000 miles for another rebuild, something wrong with the exhaust valves.

[[e-mail]]

All this is terrifying! Even if it wasn't bought as an investment, I don't think I'll ever go over 1500 rpm again - and its booked on a track day in August.

When I bought mine last August, I was told (and confirmed by a dealer) that the engive had been fully replaced by the "new" 400bhp lump which was to be fitted in the Sagaris and T2.

Does this mean its a bit less likely to fall to bits...or not?

[nelly1]

For gawds sake stop worrying!

Just enjoy the car to its' full.
If it blows, it blows!

Do you drive around all day worrying if you'll be hit by a truck?
Could happen! And it would be a fk site worse than a dodgy follower!

Get things into perspective for a second.
If you had another Marque ie.Ferrari, would you still worry about taking it on a track, or taking it to the red-line? It's what they are built for. The fact they go wrong sometimes should not prevent you from taking it out of the garage.

I reckon the reason for a lot of failures is that they don't get used properly and / or frequently enough.

just my 2p

[havoc]

Scanned this thread...I love the looks, sound and ability of Tiv's, but can't afford to buy or run them, and can't drive well enough yet.

But I would make one, i hope valid, point:-

Everyone talks about how "cheap" they are for the performance. Yet I would measure the cost of a car in pence-per-mile.

e.g Take one 911 (boring and predictable, but everyone's yardstick). This costs ~£20k more than a Tuscan.
However, after 3 years of ownership, the 911 hasn't put a foot wrong mechanically, and is still worth 55% of new price...so say £26-27k of depreciation, plus usual running costs.

Now take one Tuscan. Cheaper to buy, but after 3 years is worth maybe 50% of new price...so say £20-22k of depreciation. However, in that time the Tuscan has needed one major and one minor engine overhaul, total cost £7-8k.

All of a sudden, the Tuscan has cost more over 3 years than the 911. So which now is the cheaper car?
(OK, I know, 3.6 still more bhp/tonne than stock 911...but which is quicker cross-country in the hands of an average enthusiast-driver? Bit closer, I suspect.)

Just a thought, and please don't flame me for it...

[justinp1]

A very valid point...

My Tuscan which I bought for £23k a year ago, cost £8000 in depreciation, warranty and not warrantyable fixes in 10 months.

That did not include the obvious cost of Green Flag breakdown cover, insurance, petrol, tyres, litres of oil and coolant.

All in all, it was as expensive to run as my whole house including mortgage. Granted the Tuscan was great fun to drive, but I shudder to think about the yearly cost if I did not have the warranty and it needed a rebuild...

I have a feeling that if I had spent £55k on a 550 Maranello on finance, I would still now be better off. More importantly, I would still be driving it...