Anyone know how many have gone pop?
Discussion
Howdo all,
I was just wondering if anybody knew, or had a vague idea, how many Speed 6 engines have gone pop? (I await some smart arse saying "all of 'em")
I've been a Tuscan owner since October 2000, when I had mine at new. It's only done 26,000 miles in that time and I'm just having my third rebuild - this one only lasted 7,000 miles *groan*
Being a massive fan of TVR's I've always been dismissive of the criticism, defending them to the last. I'm starting to become one of the 'whingers' at the moment though (I'll not break into a whine here and now :) ) and their utter lack of customer service is getting frustrating.
It would be interesting to know if anybody has compiled a definitive list of the numbers of failures, and maybe some more interesting facts on what went wrong and at what point, etc.
--Phips
I was just wondering if anybody knew, or had a vague idea, how many Speed 6 engines have gone pop? (I await some smart arse saying "all of 'em")
I've been a Tuscan owner since October 2000, when I had mine at new. It's only done 26,000 miles in that time and I'm just having my third rebuild - this one only lasted 7,000 miles *groan*
Being a massive fan of TVR's I've always been dismissive of the criticism, defending them to the last. I'm starting to become one of the 'whingers' at the moment though (I'll not break into a whine here and now :) ) and their utter lack of customer service is getting frustrating.
It would be interesting to know if anybody has compiled a definitive list of the numbers of failures, and maybe some more interesting facts on what went wrong and at what point, etc.
--Phips
Big Al. said:
Don't wish to put a downer on the post BUT!
Jeeze! not again how many more people are going to ask the question!
The general consensus I would assum is a lot!
Do a search on the forum and you'll probably be reading ALL NIGHT!
Sorry but FFS
Damn right old bean
I don't drive mine anymore just incase it goes POP!!!
. Hang on a minute it's had a rebuild..Sod it.. better just keep
till the next POP PS I'm bringing the shed on Saturday.. NOT
phips said:
Many, many, many 
I'm more than aware there are lots Big Al, as I said, I've been an owner for quite a while. What I was getting at was if anybody knew *actual* numbers.
Actual numbers? your assuming of course that all owners of Tuscans frequent PH?
It really doesn’t matter as we will never know!
It's like asking how many Tuscans were actually built.
lady topaz said:
JSG did a well researched report a while back. I am sure he could provide a copy.
Link if you want it.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=5&t=122991
Mine is October 2000 vintage, 1 rebuild at 11,000 miles, currently 20,000 miles on the clock - and no sooner had I clocked 20,001 miles than I found myself hooning past a brand new DB9 that was trying to keep up with me on the M56 sliproad. I think he was surprised I caught up with him, never mind going sailing past!
I don't look forward to ever having to have a rebuild, but until then I will enjoy it. If it does go pop, then a 405 bhp rebuild will be on the cards plus some novel body enhancements to aid aerodynamics
I don't look forward to ever having to have a rebuild, but until then I will enjoy it. If it does go pop, then a 405 bhp rebuild will be on the cards plus some novel body enhancements to aid aerodynamics
At last count, the survey (and the data peopled mailed me offline since) had around 80% of 2000 vintage cars having already had rebuilds.
2001 was lower, but they hadn't (on average) hit the same mileages.
Hope that helps.
Oh, and those stats are now around a year out of date... the figures'll only ever go up (although this could be said of any car - Mercedes, Lexus, etc. included).
>> Edited by J_S_G v2.0 on Friday 15th July 10:12
2001 was lower, but they hadn't (on average) hit the same mileages.
Hope that helps.
Oh, and those stats are now around a year out of date... the figures'll only ever go up (although this could be said of any car - Mercedes, Lexus, etc. included).
>> Edited by J_S_G v2.0 on Friday 15th July 10:12
Well you can certainly add 5 to that list....the ones in TVR Craft right now....
As for whats going wrong.....it seems the factory will tell no truths about the matter, likely for fear of potentially opening the litigation flood gate. However now that there are indies out there taking on the repair work. Information will likely begin to emerge on what is actually going wrong and why. (I think many already know the what and why, but at the moment such information is relatively unsubstantiated and not supported by an engineers report, I expect that situation to change).
Its a fact, everyone of us loves our Tuscan and can put up with the "niggles and quirks" a simple cost effective fix can be found for many of these. But what I cannot abide is an unreliable engine build that ultimately steals you of the fun of driving the car, that really is a sting in the tail and hard to accept. Role on the quick turn around drive in, drive out 50K miles + fix.
Regards to all
G
As for whats going wrong.....it seems the factory will tell no truths about the matter, likely for fear of potentially opening the litigation flood gate. However now that there are indies out there taking on the repair work. Information will likely begin to emerge on what is actually going wrong and why. (I think many already know the what and why, but at the moment such information is relatively unsubstantiated and not supported by an engineers report, I expect that situation to change).
Its a fact, everyone of us loves our Tuscan and can put up with the "niggles and quirks" a simple cost effective fix can be found for many of these. But what I cannot abide is an unreliable engine build that ultimately steals you of the fun of driving the car, that really is a sting in the tail and hard to accept. Role on the quick turn around drive in, drive out 50K miles + fix.
Regards to all
G
J_S_G v2.0 said:
Oh, and those stats are now around a year out of date... the figures'll only ever go up.
It's a well known fact that every single one ever made has gone pop, usually within about 50 miles.
Thats why JSG drives a Jag.
I thought you'd gone after demonstrating the gravel spraying abilities of your Grandad car at Bolton Abbey or somewhere? Anyway, good to have you back and its nice to see that you're still grinding away at that axe.
yzf1070 said:
Information will likely begin to emerge on what is actually going wrong and why.
I thought it was well documented;
The top end wears out because the early models were fitted with sh1t parts. Also the Oil feed is inadequate causing the wear to accelerate on the cam above cylinders 5 & 6. Oh and the Cam to valve follower angle is so acute it applies an inordinate amount of pressure to the valve guides & stems that it can bend them at high revs.
The bottom line though is that the parts fitted were not strong enough. My engine was rebuilt by the factory in Dec 2004 I have done nearly 12k miles since then and have been advised that the engine is rock solid, highly upgraded parts fitted etc. SO perhaps something has been done under the new management, in the meanwhile the fact that the legacy of PW’s under investment in parts continues.
I cannot defend the customer service issues you all talk about, but you cannot please everyone all of the time.
All my opinion you understand.
David
Hi JSG
Good to have you back, I think you can add mine to your statistics in one that have failed since your survey.
I've come close to following you and dumping the car, but just keep saying just a little longer, keep it a little longer.
The thing that gets me is not just the engine rebuild (a pain but predicable) but the rest of the running / service costs. I've spent £10k in 12 months......
Good to have you back, I think you can add mine to your statistics in one that have failed since your survey.
I've come close to following you and dumping the car, but just keep saying just a little longer, keep it a little longer.
The thing that gets me is not just the engine rebuild (a pain but predicable) but the rest of the running / service costs. I've spent £10k in 12 months......
unrepentant said:
Oh, and those stats are now around a year out of date... the figures'll only ever go up.
It's a well known fact that every single one ever made has gone pop, usually within about 50 miles.
Thats why JSG drives a Jag.
I thought you'd gone after demonstrating the gravel spraying abilities of your Grandad car at Bolton Abbey or somewhere? Anyway, good to have you back and its nice to see that you're still grinding away at that axe.
No axe grinding. No having a pop at anyone. No giving a personally (and hence inherently biased) opinion on the cars/their engines/etc. at all. I'm done with all that bickering - far more hassle than it's worth. If anyone wants personal opinion, I'll give that off-line; on here I'll stick to facts...
Of those who've made it known on here whether they'd suffered major engine failure or not on a 2000 model car, around 80% had suffered such problems by around 4 months after I ran the survey.
Hope you're all making the most of the weather in your Tuscs
From my very small knowledge on this subject & simply looking at the limited data out there.
From an engineering point of view its fairly obvious to me that these failures are fatigue related. The often quoted 11,000 miles or thereabouts is obviously related directly to the nuumber of cycles of an engine unit in that time, be that hours or total rpm's of the unit.
A fatigue failure will show up after x number of cycles under a certain strain whatever that might be, eg that strain being normal road use.
So a gently driven car with little revs will last longer or the highly revved car will die quicker, if fatigue was the causation factor.
I'm sure someone with a x ray facility will be able to identify the fault with a undamaged 11,000 miler in bits, as fatigue strain is visible using x ray.
From an engineering point of view its fairly obvious to me that these failures are fatigue related. The often quoted 11,000 miles or thereabouts is obviously related directly to the nuumber of cycles of an engine unit in that time, be that hours or total rpm's of the unit.
A fatigue failure will show up after x number of cycles under a certain strain whatever that might be, eg that strain being normal road use.
So a gently driven car with little revs will last longer or the highly revved car will die quicker, if fatigue was the causation factor.
I'm sure someone with a x ray facility will be able to identify the fault with a undamaged 11,000 miler in bits, as fatigue strain is visible using x ray.
J_S_G v2.0 said:
J_S_G v2.0 said:
Oh, and those stats are now around a year out of date... the figures'll only ever go up.
It's a well known fact that every single one ever made has gone pop, usually within about 50 miles.
Thats why JSG drives a Jag.
I thought you'd gone after demonstrating the gravel spraying abilities of your Grandad car at Bolton Abbey or somewhere? Anyway, good to have you back and its nice to see that you're still grinding away at that axe.
No axe grinding. No having a pop at anyone. No giving a personally (and hence inherently biased) opinion on the cars/their engines/etc. at all. I'm done with all that bickering - far more hassle than it's worth. If anyone wants personal opinion, I'll give that off-line; on here I'll stick to facts...
Of those who've made it known on here whether they'd suffered major engine failure or not on a 2000 model car, around 80% had suffered such problems by around 4 months after I ran the survey.
Hope you're all making the most of the weather in your Tuscs
I agree. I think JSG's work a little over a year ago has been invaluable for everyone, especially those with a 2000/2001 Tuscan. I also agree completely with his comments, which are not unrealistic or pessimistic, that at the time, not many of the 2001 cars (and many 2000) had reached more than 10,000 miles.
I would also say that 80% was a fair percentage. Whether TVR had bothered to do similar extensive work to find out true figures, we will never know...
Perhaps it would have been done as an excercise to work out the potential litigation costs, and if that were the case I am sure it would have been shredded.
Alternatively, they didnt bother because they didnt care, as they had no intention in solving the problem for customers without them paying for the rebuild. In which case all the information would have acheived would be to make an estimation on how much to expand the factory works to cope with the rebuilds and how much money would be made from trusting customers.
Either way I find it astonishing, however I must also add that if in 2003-2004, the company had agreed to repair such drastic engine failures (as they perhaps legally should) the amount which would have needed to be done would have been a huge liability to the company, and one which would have made it not quite so saleable....
Don't wish to open the worm can, but I was led to believe that TVR would have liability under being 'fit for purpose' for a period of 6 years if it can be demonstrated (which it can) that there are broad problems. i.e. an original owner should have recourse upon the factory for faults occuring upto 2006 on a 2000 model. I don't know if this applies to subsequent owners though, perhaps only the original.
Don't know enough about it for sure, but I reckon that if you had problems still, the law would ultimately favour you than the factory?
Don't know enough about it for sure, but I reckon that if you had problems still, the law would ultimately favour you than the factory?
TUS 373 said:
Don't wish to open the worm can, but I was led to believe that TVR would have liability under being 'fit for purpose' for a period of 6 years if it can be demonstrated (which it can) that there are broad problems. i.e. an original owner should have recourse upon the factory for faults occuring upto 2006 on a 2000 model. I don't know if this applies to subsequent owners though, perhaps only the original.
Don't know enough about it for sure, but I reckon that if you had problems still, the law would ultimately favour you than the factory?
My reasonable understanding of consumer and business law, means that I would certainly agree.
However I believe that such a case can only occur between two parties who have actually had direct contracts.
ie, if you are poisoned by a Coca Cola for example, you would have to sue the shop you had bought it from as you have a contract of sale with them. They would then in turn sue Coca Cola for their losses and costs.
In this case, if the dealers actually own the cars and sell them to customers, it is they who are liable. However if they merely act as agents for the factory, ie just sell the car and get people to sign the forms, TVR would be directly liable.
This all sounds easy and watertight however, how many of us have the inclination to take it as far as court? (As a side point, has anyone seriously threatened this and been 'sorted out' as long as they agree to never speak of it again...)
The case would mean that the car owner would have to prove their case, not the other way around. I guess it would be very difficult without getting inside expert witnesses to prove how an engine is manufactured and it would be seen as if in court you would be 'telling' the manufacturer who they make their own cars, or this is what the defence would be anyway.
In conclusion it would be something hugely costly, and drawn out and how many of us have the time or money to do it when all we want to do is spend time enjoying our cars?
On the other hand, they have played an expert job of sweeping it under the carpet, and JSG's work would be a valuable peice of evidence so should they be allowed to get away with it?
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