Help - Speed Six Engine Issues
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Those injection values are valid numbers for that throttle opening and those revs.
it's showing very high oil pressure too .. admittedly the temps are low but even so ...
this I believe is a fundamental global issue as I say earthing related or water ingress related I feel. hard to diagnose from afar of course with lots of potential red herrings but from the screenshots there are values occurring which should not exist eg 80 percent throttle should have the engine bouncing off the limiter out of gear ..
go back to basics and check everything you can thoroughly, use that friendly mechanic you found if you can again, then if it's still not easily fixable call it a day and ring the breakdown people.
it's showing very high oil pressure too .. admittedly the temps are low but even so ...
this I believe is a fundamental global issue as I say earthing related or water ingress related I feel. hard to diagnose from afar of course with lots of potential red herrings but from the screenshots there are values occurring which should not exist eg 80 percent throttle should have the engine bouncing off the limiter out of gear ..
go back to basics and check everything you can thoroughly, use that friendly mechanic you found if you can again, then if it's still not easily fixable call it a day and ring the breakdown people.
Thanks everyone for all your help and advice.
Will get it down to the English Mechanic out here who seems very experienced and has lots of knowledge (he says he's done lots of engine building in the past). He has a Windows XP 'snap-on tools' laptop thing with all modern OBD software etc. so hopefully we can get TVR/EvoOlli diagnostics working on that as I had to return the borrowed laptop last night.
Will throughly check all cabling and look for water ingress etc. When I removed HT leads they were bone dry and down the tubes with the spark plugs looked bone dry too (I can't remove spark plugs - no sockets long enough but he will have them)
All throttle bodies are closed with engine at idle and they all turn in unison when pressing accelerator
To get to the Lambda sensors connectors is it wheel off and battery out ?
Regards
Mike
Will get it down to the English Mechanic out here who seems very experienced and has lots of knowledge (he says he's done lots of engine building in the past). He has a Windows XP 'snap-on tools' laptop thing with all modern OBD software etc. so hopefully we can get TVR/EvoOlli diagnostics working on that as I had to return the borrowed laptop last night.
Will throughly check all cabling and look for water ingress etc. When I removed HT leads they were bone dry and down the tubes with the spark plugs looked bone dry too (I can't remove spark plugs - no sockets long enough but he will have them)
All throttle bodies are closed with engine at idle and they all turn in unison when pressing accelerator
To get to the Lambda sensors connectors is it wheel off and battery out ?
Regards
Mike
RedSpike66 said:
All throttle bodies are closed with engine at idle and they all turn in unison when pressing accelerator
Doesn't mean the flow is balanced. Easy to check with, but requires a syncrometer - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264803445869?chn=ps&... - the mechanic may have one already.Plenty of 'how to' guides in this forum. Not saying this is the only problem but if they are out then the car is going to run rough even if all else is perfect. Very simple to check and should be one of the 'basics' to exclude.
mk1fan said:
RedSpike66 said:
All throttle bodies are closed with engine at idle and they all turn in unison when pressing accelerator
Doesn't mean the flow is balanced. Easy to check with, but requires a syncrometer - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264803445869?chn=ps&... - the mechanic may have one already.Plenty of 'how to' guides in this forum. Not saying this is the only problem but if they are out then the car is going to run rough even if all else is perfect. Very simple to check and should be one of the 'basics' to exclude.
If you look at the first screenshot it shows around 800rpm and 65 and 35 percent throttle opening as seen at the ecu. These situations cannot exist if the throttles are visibly closed at idle.
The poor guy is stranded in the south of france .. I know people are well meaning, but if people keep offering bad information he won't get anywhere .
There will be a limit to what can be achieved so it's best to concentrate on the actual evidence and possible causes. It might turn out to be something else, but best to work through the evidence first, and clutch at straws later.
Closed throttle and 65 percent reading cannot be correct, therefore something is wrong. If what we are told is correct then the throttles are visibly closed, so the throttle sensors should be reading somewhere under 20percent (allowing for a bit of wiggle room on that reading) . Anything else means that either the signal to the ecu is corrupted (lambda heater earth , water in loom, etc) .. poor global earth issue (main engine earth, main ecu earth, battery earth etc etc) , or the ecu is gradually going faulty ...
The evidence does not suggest this is a HT lead / spark plug / injector / weak mixture / throttle inbalance / etc issue as none of those will give the actual symptoms we are being presented with.
Am of the same opinion as the above spitfire4v8 post that really does open things up rather than closing (excuse the pun) things down to throttle problems
There's also an intermittent fault on the crank sensor circuit or something failing and showing it as a fault, good possibilities of all problems being related
Loom check first before delving deeper and chancing replacing parts
Then there are unanswered questions to this good post
There's also an intermittent fault on the crank sensor circuit or something failing and showing it as a fault, good possibilities of all problems being related
Loom check first before delving deeper and chancing replacing parts
Then there are unanswered questions to this good post
Sagi Badger said:
OP,
Can you please list your symptoms time line, I mean alternator / charging fault and how long time / miles after the rough running started, trying to understand if linked or coincidence. Any thing else that has happened recently?
For others to say the alternator change would not / is unlikely to interfere with the engine / ECU harness is partly correct but to swap an alternator the air box has to come off and the removal is a bit of a twist and pull. may be worth a play with the ECU plug at the bulkhead as these are pretty poor and do fur up so the slightest knock can upset them, like most bits of a TVR. I had one that was letting water in that in turn ran down the cables and into the ECU, I pulled the ECU out to see what was wrong and water ran out.... an hour later after a dry out it was fine....While the airbox is off you can get a visual on the throttle plates / butterflies and they should all look closed, I am aware you are in France without all the tools so balancing may be a mission but you would see if the linkage has been caught or knocked accidentally and one bank of three isn't returning / closing properly. Without kit I would leave well alone as once you start you need to finish and personally from what I understand from what you have written I think unlikely to be out of adjustment.
Can you please list your symptoms time line, I mean alternator / charging fault and how long time / miles after the rough running started, trying to understand if linked or coincidence. Any thing else that has happened recently?
For others to say the alternator change would not / is unlikely to interfere with the engine / ECU harness is partly correct but to swap an alternator the air box has to come off and the removal is a bit of a twist and pull. may be worth a play with the ECU plug at the bulkhead as these are pretty poor and do fur up so the slightest knock can upset them, like most bits of a TVR. I had one that was letting water in that in turn ran down the cables and into the ECU, I pulled the ECU out to see what was wrong and water ran out.... an hour later after a dry out it was fine....While the airbox is off you can get a visual on the throttle plates / butterflies and they should all look closed, I am aware you are in France without all the tools so balancing may be a mission but you would see if the linkage has been caught or knocked accidentally and one bank of three isn't returning / closing properly. Without kit I would leave well alone as once you start you need to finish and personally from what I understand from what you have written I think unlikely to be out of adjustment.
Hi All,
Yes, car is still here in France, currently at the garage with the ex-pat mechanic checking and cleaning all Ground cabling and contacts etc.
We did notice that with blue throttle pot disconnected car did drive better but it didn't 'fix' the issue on it's own, so still doing the basics with all the connections etc.
Spoke to Joolz on the phone and he's sent me a black throttle pot (blue simply no longer available. full stop.) The black one needs minor adjustment , so Joolz very kindly drilled the 7mm holes in the right place and gave me instructions to fit. It arrived today :-)
Will get that fitted and reset all error codes, adaptives etc. as per Joolz recommendation before starting engine as he says good chance the adaptives are all over the place with the way it's been running so badly in recent times and having no adaptives ins't a bad thing at the moment !
Hopefully will have some good news by the end of the week!!!
Yes, car is still here in France, currently at the garage with the ex-pat mechanic checking and cleaning all Ground cabling and contacts etc.
We did notice that with blue throttle pot disconnected car did drive better but it didn't 'fix' the issue on it's own, so still doing the basics with all the connections etc.
Spoke to Joolz on the phone and he's sent me a black throttle pot (blue simply no longer available. full stop.) The black one needs minor adjustment , so Joolz very kindly drilled the 7mm holes in the right place and gave me instructions to fit. It arrived today :-)
Will get that fitted and reset all error codes, adaptives etc. as per Joolz recommendation before starting engine as he says good chance the adaptives are all over the place with the way it's been running so badly in recent times and having no adaptives ins't a bad thing at the moment !
Hopefully will have some good news by the end of the week!!!
Hi All,
The great news is that the mis-firing engine issues appear to be fixed!!!
Gratitude and Thanks for all your support, advice, guidance etc. but especially to:
. . . Ollie - for his diagnostics that installed on my friend Windows 10 laptop
. . . Joolz (spitfirev8) - for all his help on the phone AND for supplying me with a modified black throttle pot (and fitting instructions) to replace the faulty blue one.
My ex-pat mechanic installed the new black throttle pot, cleaned the spark plugs (which were black with soot due to the issues), checked and cleaned all the possible GND connections, and she fired up, using all 6-cylinders, idled, and sounded a lot better.
Switched off, connected laptop & Ollies' S/W, reset throttles, adaptives, errors, logs... everything looked absolutely bob-on.
Started up went for a drive, and seems to be running better than ever !
Thanks guys - yet another example of what a great forum and community this can be !
Cheers
Mike
The great news is that the mis-firing engine issues appear to be fixed!!!
Gratitude and Thanks for all your support, advice, guidance etc. but especially to:
. . . Ollie - for his diagnostics that installed on my friend Windows 10 laptop
. . . Joolz (spitfirev8) - for all his help on the phone AND for supplying me with a modified black throttle pot (and fitting instructions) to replace the faulty blue one.
My ex-pat mechanic installed the new black throttle pot, cleaned the spark plugs (which were black with soot due to the issues), checked and cleaned all the possible GND connections, and she fired up, using all 6-cylinders, idled, and sounded a lot better.
Switched off, connected laptop & Ollies' S/W, reset throttles, adaptives, errors, logs... everything looked absolutely bob-on.
Started up went for a drive, and seems to be running better than ever !
Thanks guys - yet another example of what a great forum and community this can be !
Cheers
Mike
RedSpike66 said:
Hi All,
The great news is that the mis-firing engine issues appear to be fixed!!!
Gratitude and Thanks for all your support, advice, guidance etc. but especially to:
. . . Ollie - for his diagnostics that installed on my friend Windows 10 laptop
. . . Joolz (spitfirev8) - for all his help on the phone AND for supplying me with a modified black throttle pot (and fitting instructions) to replace the faulty blue one.
My ex-pat mechanic installed the new black throttle pot, cleaned the spark plugs (which were black with soot due to the issues), checked and cleaned all the possible GND connections, and she fired up, using all 6-cylinders, idled, and sounded a lot better.
Switched off, connected laptop & Ollies' S/W, reset throttles, adaptives, errors, logs... everything looked absolutely bob-on.
Started up went for a drive, and seems to be running better than ever !
Thanks guys - yet another example of what a great forum and community this can be !
Cheers
Mike
After a while, you get to know the folks who have hands-on experience of this engine.The great news is that the mis-firing engine issues appear to be fixed!!!
Gratitude and Thanks for all your support, advice, guidance etc. but especially to:
. . . Ollie - for his diagnostics that installed on my friend Windows 10 laptop
. . . Joolz (spitfirev8) - for all his help on the phone AND for supplying me with a modified black throttle pot (and fitting instructions) to replace the faulty blue one.
My ex-pat mechanic installed the new black throttle pot, cleaned the spark plugs (which were black with soot due to the issues), checked and cleaned all the possible GND connections, and she fired up, using all 6-cylinders, idled, and sounded a lot better.
Switched off, connected laptop & Ollies' S/W, reset throttles, adaptives, errors, logs... everything looked absolutely bob-on.
Started up went for a drive, and seems to be running better than ever !
Thanks guys - yet another example of what a great forum and community this can be !
Cheers
Mike
Joolz's reputation precedes him....and he's one of the "good guys" and always helps and offers sound advice.
Olly is a computer/electronics whiz!
Nick
Seems I am a few days behind you !!!
!/2 way to the first overnight on the way to meet friends at a villa in Southern France. Stopped to fill up with petrol and my Tuscan was misfiring so badly that we took an early lunch to let things cool down a bit as it was undriveable
Bit of History
I have been sensing a misfire on longer runs for a few years now and had leads and coil packs changed, no real joy. Also comes back from service and seems to run fine then seems to go out of tune, hard to tell because as much as it's no garage queen it doesn't get driven that much either, especially not recently.
So what I have noticed is that it drives great from cold then I can sense it holding back (missing) at steady cruising speed when its warmed up. Stop for a quick fuel top up and when starting again it gets really bad, let her cool for 30mins and it drives better, nearly normal still with the slight holding back when cruising, obviously this isn't noticed when your actually 'driving' it on some nice windy roads
From what I have read above I am thinking that I may have an earth cable/connection that gets worse when hot and better when its cooled down
Unfortunately I have limited mechanical skill or knowledge and a very minimal tool kit, As its intermittent depending on wether its cool or hot any suggestions on the best place to start looking
!/2 way to the first overnight on the way to meet friends at a villa in Southern France. Stopped to fill up with petrol and my Tuscan was misfiring so badly that we took an early lunch to let things cool down a bit as it was undriveable
Bit of History
I have been sensing a misfire on longer runs for a few years now and had leads and coil packs changed, no real joy. Also comes back from service and seems to run fine then seems to go out of tune, hard to tell because as much as it's no garage queen it doesn't get driven that much either, especially not recently.
So what I have noticed is that it drives great from cold then I can sense it holding back (missing) at steady cruising speed when its warmed up. Stop for a quick fuel top up and when starting again it gets really bad, let her cool for 30mins and it drives better, nearly normal still with the slight holding back when cruising, obviously this isn't noticed when your actually 'driving' it on some nice windy roads
From what I have read above I am thinking that I may have an earth cable/connection that gets worse when hot and better when its cooled down
Unfortunately I have limited mechanical skill or knowledge and a very minimal tool kit, As its intermittent depending on wether its cool or hot any suggestions on the best place to start looking
Its sounds a lot like you may have an air leak, perhaps around the throttle bodies or somewhere related. When its really bad and you listen to the engine can you hear little chuffs and pops near the air box (like a muffled spit noise). That would definately point to excess air.
For it to go wrong when hot could also be a throttle pot that's gone very temperature dependent (had one of those!). What do the diagnostics look like when its bad ?
My guess is its not HT. Either fuelling is wrong due to a mechanical/thermal effect or ECU is being told to do the fuelling wrong due to a thermal/electrical effect. That's my guess.
For it to go wrong when hot could also be a throttle pot that's gone very temperature dependent (had one of those!). What do the diagnostics look like when its bad ?
My guess is its not HT. Either fuelling is wrong due to a mechanical/thermal effect or ECU is being told to do the fuelling wrong due to a thermal/electrical effect. That's my guess.
Think the clue is in the OPs statement re cruise, the throttle body wear will show more at "just on" throttle as the plates flutter and the whole system gets confused. The TPs tend to get noisy, they are as PHP notes exposed to heat, add vibration and consider they spend most of their life swinging around 5% of their travel to wear them out even quicker, so a little play and away it all goes, the ECU gets noise, not a nice input.
OP, do you hear a relay click in the drivers foot well when this happens?
There are a few ways to fix this, but new bushes and TPs is the standard fix and I guess cheapest, although blue ones are unobtanium. A good balancing session at fast idle, like 1600 RPM (sorry neighbours), will do no harm but the design is weak and wear rates high hence the bushes wear and we get noise.
J
OP, do you hear a relay click in the drivers foot well when this happens?
There are a few ways to fix this, but new bushes and TPs is the standard fix and I guess cheapest, although blue ones are unobtanium. A good balancing session at fast idle, like 1600 RPM (sorry neighbours), will do no harm but the design is weak and wear rates high hence the bushes wear and we get noise.
J
Hi Pete
Thanks for the response. Haven't had the bonnet off to listen yet, will do that tomorrow
Unfortunately I don't have any diagnostic equipment except my mates OBD reader, its definitely temperature dependant, but seems to be getting worse as its not quite as smooth as normal when cold now and definitely worse when hot and much worse after a quick stop and restart (as in undriveable). I have very limited mechanical knowledge and a small tool kit available is there anything I can check that won't make it worse and do you think it will be ok to get me home
Thanks for the response. Haven't had the bonnet off to listen yet, will do that tomorrow
Unfortunately I don't have any diagnostic equipment except my mates OBD reader, its definitely temperature dependant, but seems to be getting worse as its not quite as smooth as normal when cold now and definitely worse when hot and much worse after a quick stop and restart (as in undriveable). I have very limited mechanical knowledge and a small tool kit available is there anything I can check that won't make it worse and do you think it will be ok to get me home
Sagi Badger said:
Think the clue is in the OPs statement re cruise, the throttle body wear will show more at "just on" throttle as the plates flutter and the whole system gets confused. The TPs tend to get noisy, they are as PHP notes exposed to heat, add vibration and consider they spend most of their life swinging around 5% of their travel to wear them out even quicker, so a little play and away it all goes, the ECU gets noise, not a nice input.
OP, do you hear a relay click in the drivers foot well when this happens?
There are a few ways to fix this, but new bushes and TPs is the standard fix and I guess cheapest, although blue ones are unobtanium. A good balancing session at fast idle, like 1600 RPM (sorry neighbours), will do no harm but the design is weak and wear rates high hence the bushes wear and we get noise.
J
That sounds like the problem, haven't noticed the clicking, but that's probably due to the loud music, will have a listen tomorrow, suppose the question is will it get me home without causing any damageOP, do you hear a relay click in the drivers foot well when this happens?
There are a few ways to fix this, but new bushes and TPs is the standard fix and I guess cheapest, although blue ones are unobtanium. A good balancing session at fast idle, like 1600 RPM (sorry neighbours), will do no harm but the design is weak and wear rates high hence the bushes wear and we get noise.
J
As I was advised, and can now fully testify that it's definitely true, and a major advantage to have, is the original TVR or EvoOlli's diagnostics on a Windows XP/10 laptop..... to give you some immediate clues as to whether you have a throttle pot, lambda, air-fuel ratio, crank sensor etc. issue that may help quickly diagnose the issue and maybe get a part to you (if .. if... it's a replacement part you need) ....
Where are you in France ???? I'm about 25-mins drive from Bergerac and I currently have access to the diagnostics for a couple of days more so I could potentially meet you if you are quite close to me.
Regards
Mike
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