RE: ' questions on reliability' post.
Discussion
unrepentant said:
The reason that more Tuscans have been involved in accidents than T350's and Tams could also be due to the fact that many many more Tuscans have been sold (and over a 5 year period) than either the T350 or the Tam.
I agree, I also thought that. There is also the factor that with a quite a small amout of figures due to the number of cars sold, it only takes a couple of freak accidents to perhaps double the statistics.
unrepentant said:
No doubt my concerns will be dismissed as yet another whinger/troll/not an owner comment.
but for the moment I won't be buying one
So you're someone who has no intention of buying one but likes to spend time slagging them off.
I call that a troll.
As far as safety is concerned, IIRC a Tuscan was crashed in a crash test and was shown to be more safe than many comparable cars. I cant remember the details but it was posted on here (several years ago).
The reason that more Tuscans have been involved in accidents than T350's and Tams could also be due to the fact that many many more Tuscans have been sold (and over a 5 year period) than either the T350 or the Tam.
I have every intention of buying one, I want to buy one, when the issues are sorted out I will buy one....
This has partly been adressed buy a 3 year, 36k miel warranty, but not completely so, who are you to start accusing people of being trolls...
THIS is not as far as I'm aware TVR sponsored/loving paid for PR site, but a forum full of car enthusiasts, with many differing opinions. Which we will as we are 'mainly' all adults (sorry under 17 non driving - public road at least ; car enthusiasts ) form our own opinions based on discussion about many wide and varied issues, and how people behave and conduct themselves. I hope I have bee not offensive to you personally, and expect tyou to behave in the same way. Unless expressing a different opinion is deemed offensive. I'm sure we will both continue to post, but we will have to agree to differ on this one....
I want to buy a new TVR, it is just TVR are making this very difficulyt with their attitude.
As for the above cars are 'designed' to pass crash tests, which are only a take into account limited scope of real world crashes and as I have allready said, it was only in certain circumstances that this may have been a contributory factor. I guess we will have to await the coroners verdict, and until then be careful.
For example - I'm well aware that a griff/chim will not stand up as well incertain circumstances (older design, etc,etc) but are basically a very strong car (I know this personally as I stuffed my first griff big time, but walked away - but in some circumstances ie - would NOT want to roll a griff cf a t350 are more dangerous). The GRIFF remember HAS FULL TYPE APPROVAL, which I believe the Tusc does not.
But the issue is THIS info is out in the open...
please do not call me a troll , just because i do not hold you opinion. I don't think I have offered you any personal insults to deserve this.
B
B
bjwoods said:
I want to buy a new TVR, it is just TVR are making this very difficulyt with their attitude.
I wanted to buy a new TVR. I walked into a dealer, gave him a load of cash, he said thanks and he gave me a car. The car was absolutely brilliant so 2 years later I did it all again.
Not difficult at all.
justinp1 said:I do agree that more tuscan have crashed for this reason, but the insurers are surely fully aware the proportions of crashes, between models, and they do seem to load a tuscan premium over a tamora or t350....
The reason that more Tuscans have been involved in accidents than T350's and Tams could also be due to the fact that many many more Tuscans have been sold (and over a 5 year period) than either the T350 or the Tam.
I agree, I also thought that. There is also the factor that with a quite a small amout of figures due to the number of cars sold, it only takes a couple of freak accidents to perhaps double the statistics.
Or perhaps standard tuscans and tuscan S's are being lumped together (ie more powerful model the issue?)
or maybe all insurers just want their pound of flesh. renewal time soon
B
unrepentant said:
bjwoods said:
I want to buy a new TVR, it is just TVR are making this very difficulyt with their attitude.
I wanted to buy a new TVR. I walked into a dealer, gave him a load of cash, he said thanks and he gave me a car. The car was absolutely brilliant so 2 years later I did it all again.
Not difficult at all.
Not difficult for your personal circumstances. no. I don't have piles of cash any more, 2 under two's see to that
, which has also reminded me of a sense of mortality. I have also experienced TVR good will in the past (when my car was 3 years out of warranty) - it was a bad paint defect that appeared, due to underlying join.. TVR announced all s6 goodwill withdrawn - UNDER all circumstances.
As I said I tend to keep cars longer.
5.5 years and 7 years respectively, so more diffult for me, as i have to consider out of warranty issues.
How many miles did you have on the previous tusc when you sold it?
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th August 12:45
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th August 12:49
Unrepentant, bjwoods,
I think the possible reason why you have differing views is that you have had different experiences, and as well as that are looking to own a car for different ownership periods.
I completely agree with unrepentant that if you are looking to buy a new car and own it for 2-3 years, a new Tuscan is an excellent choice. The worries about *potential* reliability issues are offset by the warranty.
However, if you have owned two new Tuscans and perhaps not done much more that 10-15k in either, there is also the factor that the issues that have been discussed would not have occured in the timeframe you have owned the car. For example, as far as I am aware the majority of rebuilds that are carried out are on cars which have done 10-20k and the shocks and clutches invariably need replacing at 20k.
I daresay that *if* you had some of the problems others had had such as needing a rebuild at 6k or even worse needing a rebuild out of warranty, or going for a 24k service and needing new clutch suspension at el coming to a £5000 bill your experience of ownership may be different.
You have however (luck or not) played the game in such a way that you have had all the benefits of owning a fabulous car without some of the hassle of others, and for that my hat is off to you. It is worth remembering that the running costs and depreciation of owning a 2000 Tuscan for say two years, may be about the same as running costs and depreciation of a brand new one!
If bjwoods is considering owning a Tuscan for perhaps five of more years, he is correct in doing his homework beforehand. What also must be taken into account is that the Speed Six is just about getting to five years old, and I would have thought the reliability issues may have improved, but there realistically no way of knowing how these will pan out over the next five years on a 2005 SP6. There will always be some risk, this must be accepted.
However... if you are serious about owning the Tuscan for 5 years, pretend it is 5k more expensive. Put the spare 5K an an ISA. With a bit of luck you will have no engine problems for the first 3 years. If you do it will be repaired under warranty and should last almost foever. If it doesnt, or if you first have engine problems after the warranty period, 5k will pay for the change of spec to the Al Melling design. You will also have at least a few hundred quid in interest.
Five years on, your investment toward engine problems would have cost you less than £1000 per year. Even with this 5k extra, there is nothing non-TVR close to the new Tuscan IMHO.
The other thing which may happen is that after five years you will have had no such problems, and your 5k will now be 6k and going on its way to your kids University fund!
With the crash/insurance problem, I was unaware of any hard statistics of serious Tuscan crashes and their causes. However, it must be said that with my insurer, Direct Line who were the cheapest by far for my previous car, an E36 M3, they were even cheaper when I changed to the Tuscan!
I think the possible reason why you have differing views is that you have had different experiences, and as well as that are looking to own a car for different ownership periods.
I completely agree with unrepentant that if you are looking to buy a new car and own it for 2-3 years, a new Tuscan is an excellent choice. The worries about *potential* reliability issues are offset by the warranty.
However, if you have owned two new Tuscans and perhaps not done much more that 10-15k in either, there is also the factor that the issues that have been discussed would not have occured in the timeframe you have owned the car. For example, as far as I am aware the majority of rebuilds that are carried out are on cars which have done 10-20k and the shocks and clutches invariably need replacing at 20k.
I daresay that *if* you had some of the problems others had had such as needing a rebuild at 6k or even worse needing a rebuild out of warranty, or going for a 24k service and needing new clutch suspension at el coming to a £5000 bill your experience of ownership may be different.
You have however (luck or not) played the game in such a way that you have had all the benefits of owning a fabulous car without some of the hassle of others, and for that my hat is off to you. It is worth remembering that the running costs and depreciation of owning a 2000 Tuscan for say two years, may be about the same as running costs and depreciation of a brand new one!
If bjwoods is considering owning a Tuscan for perhaps five of more years, he is correct in doing his homework beforehand. What also must be taken into account is that the Speed Six is just about getting to five years old, and I would have thought the reliability issues may have improved, but there realistically no way of knowing how these will pan out over the next five years on a 2005 SP6. There will always be some risk, this must be accepted.
However... if you are serious about owning the Tuscan for 5 years, pretend it is 5k more expensive. Put the spare 5K an an ISA. With a bit of luck you will have no engine problems for the first 3 years. If you do it will be repaired under warranty and should last almost foever. If it doesnt, or if you first have engine problems after the warranty period, 5k will pay for the change of spec to the Al Melling design. You will also have at least a few hundred quid in interest.
Five years on, your investment toward engine problems would have cost you less than £1000 per year. Even with this 5k extra, there is nothing non-TVR close to the new Tuscan IMHO.
The other thing which may happen is that after five years you will have had no such problems, and your 5k will now be 6k and going on its way to your kids University fund!
With the crash/insurance problem, I was unaware of any hard statistics of serious Tuscan crashes and their causes. However, it must be said that with my insurer, Direct Line who were the cheapest by far for my previous car, an E36 M3, they were even cheaper when I changed to the Tuscan!
I could be wrong, but the point I think unrepentant is trying to make is that it is widely accepted that some early SP6 engines had problems, and gradually these seem to be improving.
Unfortunately however much you talk about it, these problems wont just disappear so you will have to allow for them if you buy an early car. Sorry, I know its not right or how it should be, but it is a fact.
In the 21st century it sounds ridiculous that you cant run a car for 5 or so years without it exploding, but that is a risk you take with early Tuscan ownership.
If someone is that worried about the car letting them down then sorry I dont think the Tuscan is for them.
Read my posts, ok I havent had engine worries (looks for wood), but I have had loads of niggly things, but hey I put up with them for the absolute pleasure of owning a Tuscan.
Di
Unfortunately however much you talk about it, these problems wont just disappear so you will have to allow for them if you buy an early car. Sorry, I know its not right or how it should be, but it is a fact.
In the 21st century it sounds ridiculous that you cant run a car for 5 or so years without it exploding, but that is a risk you take with early Tuscan ownership.
If someone is that worried about the car letting them down then sorry I dont think the Tuscan is for them.
Read my posts, ok I havent had engine worries (looks for wood), but I have had loads of niggly things, but hey I put up with them for the absolute pleasure of owning a Tuscan.
Di
The question is though how many miles have you done?
Engine issues seem to crop up on average between 12-18k miles.
SO unfortuanety, i'm afraid a lot of peopl think the jury is still out on newer s6 engined cars until the number of miles go up. 04 cars are back at factory for example (t350, tamoras and tuscs).
I would love to buy on, I guess as soon as we get tusc 2, and 05 tamoras, 05 t350, sag owners posting I've now done 20-30 k miles with no problems, then I for one will be reassured, enough, to take a risk.
AND I will buy one.
As the average TVR seem to do about 6-7 k miles a year this may take some time c'mon get out there and drive them.
Also, maybe DOUBLE unfortuanetly the S6 reliability issue is NOT helped buy the actual 'original' DESIGNER of the engine/other companies arranging talks about the engine, what is wrong with it, how if you pay to do a REBUILD (costing thousands) with them to go with the design as originally put to TVR, and this will sort out the engine issues.
TVR have never formally issued a recall/given a press release/or said the design has changed to improve a known problem, or put out a statement to customers to say this other companies work is unneccesary.
Obviuosly they are caught between admitting there was a problem ( but now solved) as this would admit liability for all those customer paid for rebuilds, AND not saying anything, causing a perception thatthe engine is still subject to early rebuilds, hence putting of SOME potential customers
AND Early cars, we all agree had problems, but why if tvr have solved them to rebuilt cars, then go on to need further rebuilds.
So, I'm afraid the jury is still out on the smolenski era cars, as most haven't done very many miles yet.
B
Off topic - have you seen the display/sunlight fix yet?
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th August 20:46
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 08:44
Engine issues seem to crop up on average between 12-18k miles.
SO unfortuanety, i'm afraid a lot of peopl think the jury is still out on newer s6 engined cars until the number of miles go up. 04 cars are back at factory for example (t350, tamoras and tuscs).
I would love to buy on, I guess as soon as we get tusc 2, and 05 tamoras, 05 t350, sag owners posting I've now done 20-30 k miles with no problems, then I for one will be reassured, enough, to take a risk.
AND I will buy one.
As the average TVR seem to do about 6-7 k miles a year this may take some time
c'mon get out there and drive them. Also, maybe DOUBLE unfortuanetly the S6 reliability issue is NOT helped buy the actual 'original' DESIGNER of the engine/other companies arranging talks about the engine, what is wrong with it, how if you pay to do a REBUILD (costing thousands) with them to go with the design as originally put to TVR, and this will sort out the engine issues.
TVR have never formally issued a recall/given a press release/or said the design has changed to improve a known problem, or put out a statement to customers to say this other companies work is unneccesary.
Obviuosly they are caught between admitting there was a problem ( but now solved) as this would admit liability for all those customer paid for rebuilds, AND not saying anything, causing a perception thatthe engine is still subject to early rebuilds, hence putting of SOME potential customers
AND Early cars, we all agree had problems, but why if tvr have solved them to rebuilt cars, then go on to need further rebuilds.
So, I'm afraid the jury is still out on the smolenski era cars, as most haven't done very many miles yet.
B
Off topic - have you seen the display/sunlight fix yet?
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 4th August 20:46
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 08:44
bjwoods said:
What if this happens, suppose this happens, risky, if I never do anything I'll never regret it, perhaps one day...........
I'll be honest with you Woodsy, I'm a risk adverse individual.
My fun car was a series 1 E-Type I'd had for 9 years. I loved it but wanted something a bit more practical and was about to change it for a 911 of some description. I'd looked at the Cerbera and the Tuscan and thought they were awesome but too risky in all the ways you suggest.
Then a 46 year old friend of ours was killed on his motorbike.
And I went straight out and bought a Tuscan.
Because what I really wanted was a Tuscan and I figured I could be dead tomorrow and then it would be too late.
The car(s) is totally awesome. If you want one get one. Worry about tomorrow tomorrow.
Unrepsy
WHY ARE YOU MISREPRESENTING ME.
THE QUOTE ABOVE HAS BEEN MADE UP BY YOU, and is TOTALLY out of context.
Please discuss things honestly, without being patronising (why woodsy all of a sudden)
I've been driving a griff for 12 years in all weathers hardly risk adverse
I'm very sorry, but i have a different opinion than yoou, and will back it up, whilst you seem to need to resort to sillyness.
I would love to be your obvious position that you need not apparently be slightly concerned about cash..
Please tell me how many miles your previous tuscan had on it before you sold it?
MY griff is also awesome, so I need to be really sure about going to, imho, only a slight more awesome tuscan S mk2., to make stumping up an extra 30k worthwhile.
2 under twos have also changed my mind on the live now, don't worry about tommorrow/cash ethos..
I think elsewhere I've said I could EVEN live with a rebuild, if I knew why, and had guarantees that it would not happen again...
BUT THE biggest issues was the car disappearing for MONTHS to get it done. Buy a tuscan, drive a courtsey corsa, if you are lucky , all next summer
- not very awesome Noticed another thread about very long wait at TVR POwer for s6 rebuild, and TVR power apologising. ;D
Edited to add: with a reply that someone has just sent an nov 04 t350 with 6k miles back for a rebuild.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 10:30
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 11:44
bjwoods said:
Noticed another thread about very long wait at TVR POwer for s6 rebuild, and TVR power apologising. ;D
Edited to add: with a reply that someone has just sent an nov 04 t350 with 6k miles back for a rebuild.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 10:30
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 11:44
I think both of these things are noteworthy developments. Firstly a response from the TVR factory about rebuilds (well not exactly but as close as we will ever get). Secondly an NS era car needing a rebuild. It is a given that it will be fixed under warranty, but it goes without saying that this same car could ave been driven carefully at the weekends and kept immaculately after spending £2k on annual services, then see it go bang. Out of warranty.
Although the 3 year warranty is obviously better than a one year one, I cant help thinking that it was introduced to increase the publics percebtion of the engine, rather than a product of the factory's newly found confidence in the engine!
woodsy said:
Please dont be nasty.
I love someone who is so sure of their argument that they keep editing their post.
. Your post above bears little resemblance to how you originally posted it. Despite your snide comments I feel that my previous post is EXTREMELY HONEST. My comment about being risk adverse refers to me, it wasnt a dig at you. You have no idea about my financial circumstances so please refrain from commenting on them.
My light hearted adapting of your "quote" in my previous post that you have taken exception to seemed to accurately sum up your comments, i.e.- You'll consider a new TVR when they come with a cast iron guarantee that not so much as a wheel nut will ever break.
I have merely ADDED to it. and sorted out crap grammar/typo's.
How many mile did your car have when you sold it?
As for making snide comments, what were they, you have made yet another one with woodsy again above, why do this!!!!
as for the wheel nut comment please!, another misrepresentation, All I want is a car that will do even only 50 k miles with just routine servicing. After all I've had griff's for 12 years, they should be able to produce a car now at least as reliable.
As for risk adverse, I bought a griff in the days, when everyone thought they were glorified kit cars that fell apart all the time.
NO I don't want a car, that because of this percieved real or not issue, trade in values are falling through the floor. Depreciation is huge, and I was merely complimenting you on apparantly being so finacially secure that this need not be a consideration.
I was hoping that continued pressure on forums like this would actually help to get the problems sorted. To some extent it proabably has, new warranty etc. though I'm inclined to agree with justin on the reasons.
£50k + on a tuscan S / Sagaris, i'm just inclined to wait for used new aston martin v8's to hit 50k in a few years time.
Which is a shame because i love tvr's and would like to continue to own newer models in the future.
I'll still post my opinion though
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 12:56
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:02
How many mile did your car have when you sold it?
As for making snide comments, what were they, you have made yet another one with woodsy again above, why do this!!!!
as for the wheel nut comment please!, another misrepresentation, All I want is a car that will do even only 50 k miles with just routine servicing. After all I've had griff's for 12 years, they should be able to produce a car now at least as reliable.
As for risk adverse, I bought a griff in the days, when everyone thought they were glorified kit cars that fell apart all the time.
NO I don't want a car, that because of this percieved real or not issue, trade in values are falling through the floor. Depreciation is huge, and I was merely complimenting you on apparantly being so finacially secure that this need not be a consideration.
I was hoping that continued pressure on forums like this would actually help to get the problems sorted. To some extent it proabably has, new warranty etc. though I'm inclined to agree with justin on the reasons.
£50k + on a tuscan S / Sagaris, i'm just inclined to wait for used new aston martin v8's to hit 50k in a few years time.
Which is a shame because i love tvr's and would like to continue to own newer models in the future.
I'll still post my opinion though
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 12:56
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:02
its bjwoods, if you don't mind please.
If that's the one you owned for 2 years, prior to getting a new one.
Yes
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:07
Edited to add where has unrepentants post, with a picture of his car gone to then.?
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:15
If that's the one you owned for 2 years, prior to getting a new one.
Yes
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:07
Edited to add where has unrepentants post, with a picture of his car gone to then.?
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:15
You also asked my mileage I believe, sorry only just seen it.
My 1st car was sold with £17,000 mls on the clock. 2002 4ltr. I know the gentleman who bought it and I assume he has put considerably more miles on it. Even being conservative I would imagine it has done over 20,000 mls by now, and no engine worries.
I still believe that some,not all, failures were down to misuse.
I personally know one person, who having collected his Tuscan from Blackpool after a rebuild, went on a cold engine to a nearby car park and do-nutted it and basically screamed the nuts off it.
Utter madness, but he will be the 1st to shout when it goes bang again.
My 1st car was sold with £17,000 mls on the clock. 2002 4ltr. I know the gentleman who bought it and I assume he has put considerably more miles on it. Even being conservative I would imagine it has done over 20,000 mls by now, and no engine worries.
I still believe that some,not all, failures were down to misuse.
I personally know one person, who having collected his Tuscan from Blackpool after a rebuild, went on a cold engine to a nearby car park and do-nutted it and basically screamed the nuts off it.
Utter madness, but he will be the 1st to shout when it goes bang again.
serious question unrepentant, how many miles did you put on your old car, and current car.
You had a very strong opinion that only current owners should make comments, I would think current and former owners who have put on a decent mileage would be the ones with much more relevant opinion ( with respect to rebuilds) than ones with low mileages.
B
Edited to add, I do not like being called woodsy. As I have asked politely before please stop.
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:36
You had a very strong opinion that only current owners should make comments, I would think current and former owners who have put on a decent mileage would be the ones with much more relevant opinion ( with respect to rebuilds) than ones with low mileages.
B
Edited to add, I do not like being called woodsy. As I have asked politely before please stop.
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 5th August 13:36
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