The Speed 6's are still going pop!
Discussion
los angeles said:
I also hear one of them is a Sagaris!!!!
Oh, hell. I hope not. If it's true, why don't they post on here, SXS? (Not that I dispute your assertion; just wondering.)
I've only heard of the one saggy, obviously not owned by a PH'er, but there has also been 'goodwill' gestures and stuff going on to keep things under the carpet, wo god knows the exact number, sadly. Believe it or not, MOST new owners of new TVR's are NOT PH'ers! The majority on these forums are 'used car' owners.
Those who know me, know I'm not one for BS'ing, but this REALLY cheeses me off, people paying good money for sportscars, and they go pop! I'm a die-hard fan all the way, but TVR's 'denial mode' attitude is pissing me off!!!
I've said it once, and I'll say it again - I simply do not beleive this is ALL TVR's fault... whether you beleive the inherant design flaw stuff or not, the fact remains that at EVERY TVRCC meet I go to, there are people who leave, bouncing off the limiter in first / second on a cold engine.
I've seen it in Tuscan's with 16k plus, and even a Sagaris with less that 500 on the clock.
The Rover V8's are pretty hardy, but the Sp6 is essentially a race engine... drive it like a t
t and you'll knacker it.
I've seen it in Tuscan's with 16k plus, and even a Sagaris with less that 500 on the clock.
The Rover V8's are pretty hardy, but the Sp6 is essentially a race engine... drive it like a t
t and you'll knacker it.Podie said:
... drive it like a t
That goes without saying, but come on, how many new owners of rover V8s popped their engines a few thousand miles after purchase? Its not children buying these fairly high-priced sportscars (obviously this doesnt include the budget priced used tvr market)... (if the speed 6 is a pure race-bred engine, then why the 3 year warranty???? I dont remember seeing race engine builders give 3 years warranty with their engines!)
I dont know whats going on, I dont own a Speed 6, but it just brings tears that 7 years on and they still havent got it right.... albeit a lot less problems, they're still happening.... I'm thinking, what if its the guys who build these engines, what if they're just not QC minded??? just a thought
I suppose we'll all be at the Al Mellings conference, so we can make our own minds up after that.
But from where it stands, one or more of the following could be the cause:
a) TVR's engine builders aint QC managed
b) there are still poor components flying around
c) there is indeed a design flaw
d) drivers who dont run their beasts by the book?
Podie said:
I've said it once, and I'll say it again - I simply do not beleive this is ALL TVR's fault... whether you beleive the inherant design flaw stuff or not, the fact remains that at EVERY TVRCC meet I go to, there are people who leave, bouncing off the limiter in first / second on a cold engine.
I've seen it in Tuscan's with 16k plus, and even a Sagaris with less that 500 on the clock.
The Rover V8's are pretty hardy, but the Sp6 is essentially a race engine... drive it like a t
I'd buy into that were it not for the fact that virtually all the rebuilds are for one of two things, being worn finger followers or worn valve guides. Surely these parts only wear so badly because either:
1. the alignment is out causing loads other than vertical ones to be applied to the valve stems, or
2. the oiling is insufficient in the head meaning metal on metal contact
which I understand are precisely the problems identified as being fixed in the mods offered by the various companies such as TVR Craft.
It's hard to say how many of these engine failures are aggravated by abuse. I too see owners showing very little mechanical sympathy, I've seen people bouncing cold engines off the rev limiter just to show off the exhaust note and it makes me want to slap them.
Given the relatively low mileage a lot of these cars seem to do, when you consider that somebody who has spent 40-50k on a sports car and then sold it a year later with 6000 miles on the clock i.e. just about run in, I have to wonder whether the owner has really spent the whole year carefully running the engine in.
Still I don't think that this accounts for all the horror stories and my feeling is that there are still underlying issues. As I've said before, I can forgive TVR for having engine problems, but to leave the problems unresolved for so many years is disgracefull.
IMO a current model TVR with the engine reliability that we came to expect in the Griff/Chim era would utterly transform the prospects of the company, and return it to a company that we can be proud of.
Given the relatively low mileage a lot of these cars seem to do, when you consider that somebody who has spent 40-50k on a sports car and then sold it a year later with 6000 miles on the clock i.e. just about run in, I have to wonder whether the owner has really spent the whole year carefully running the engine in.
Still I don't think that this accounts for all the horror stories and my feeling is that there are still underlying issues. As I've said before, I can forgive TVR for having engine problems, but to leave the problems unresolved for so many years is disgracefull.
IMO a current model TVR with the engine reliability that we came to expect in the Griff/Chim era would utterly transform the prospects of the company, and return it to a company that we can be proud of.
I've said it before, but: why don't a few prominent PH'ers ask for a meeting with TVR management to discuss our worries? That way you get the answers straight from the source in stead of all the rumours. The PH forum members represent the core of the TVR community, so TVR management can't turn them down, can they?
If indeed the S6's still go pop (wait and see first) it would be an outright disgrace, and maybe, if TVR won't solve it REALLY SOON or just doesn't give a d*mn, we should all walk away and buy something else. As much as I love TVR, there are limits.
If indeed the S6's still go pop (wait and see first) it would be an outright disgrace, and maybe, if TVR won't solve it REALLY SOON or just doesn't give a d*mn, we should all walk away and buy something else. As much as I love TVR, there are limits.
Many have tried to confront TVR via the various channels, the answers are always along the lines of "driver abuse".
I think they will get themselves into a massive legal battle if they admit ownership of problems or if they try to challenge those who have investigated the issues and have hard facts.
Either way, NO ONE wants to see TVR fail, WE ALL WANT THEM TO SUCCEED!!!! Wheeler in many ways DID LISTEN to us and I believe quite a few of the die-hard PH'ers have had many deep discussions with him in the past. But the russian owner is a different kettle altogether... there is a big picture with all this Benelli takeover and stuff... I dont know, but maybe the company is moving in a different direction, only time will tell.... theres rumours that the typhon wont appear, if this is true, then maybe, just maybe, the Sagaris is the last speed 6 engined TVR???? (all speculation of course)
I think they will get themselves into a massive legal battle if they admit ownership of problems or if they try to challenge those who have investigated the issues and have hard facts.
Either way, NO ONE wants to see TVR fail, WE ALL WANT THEM TO SUCCEED!!!! Wheeler in many ways DID LISTEN to us and I believe quite a few of the die-hard PH'ers have had many deep discussions with him in the past. But the russian owner is a different kettle altogether... there is a big picture with all this Benelli takeover and stuff... I dont know, but maybe the company is moving in a different direction, only time will tell.... theres rumours that the typhon wont appear, if this is true, then maybe, just maybe, the Sagaris is the last speed 6 engined TVR???? (all speculation of course)
With all the SP6 bashing that goes on I just wonder if there are any success stories out there i.e whats the highest mileage SP6 that hasnt had major problems. When you read posts on here you would beleive the SP6 is only good for 30K max? I too have seen people ragging SP6's from cold and it makes me cringe. Treat them like this and your in for trouble. I know it's not the same but I have a 62K AJP V8 that touch wood seems to be fine without any major rebuilds in the past. Bit rattly when cold but arent they all?
millermilla said:
With all the SP6 bashing that goes on I just wonder if there are any success stories out there i.e whats the highest mileage SP6 that hasnt had major problems. When you read posts on here you would beleive the SP6 is only good for 30K max? I too have seen people ragging SP6's from cold and it makes me cringe. Treat them like this and your in for trouble. I know it's not the same but I have a 62K AJP V8 that touch wood seems to be fine without any major rebuilds in the past. Bit rattly when cold but arent they all?
As AJP v8's are arguably more a race engine than a six, it would seem they gotthe design much better/right on them..
I did challenge someone with the first s6 engine car to get to 5ok miles with just servicing... I would put my money where my mouth is and buy one...
A quick look at Autotrader tells the story, very many cars with 20 k'ish miles on, and rebuild, many with less than 20, no rebuild ( yet?)
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Sunday 7th August 20:32
SXS,
The Typhon is not going ahead. People who have had deposits down for 2 years have had them returned.
I am cautious to say whether you will be right with the continuation of the SP6. I think the deciding factor will be how many of the TII's and Sagaris come back...
It will be a test whether the problem will be swept under the carpet, or TVR decide to publically draw a line under the SP6 and distance themselves by going down another line. Problem is, after the SP6, how many people are going to want to jump the queues to get own the first of a new era of in house engines!
My SP6 was a great engine. It never 'went bang'. However I respect TVRCraft for what they are doing. I hope they have every success. If TVR had done the right thing in the first place, or for the last 5 years, ironically they would never exist!
I only wish that in response to the public launch in a couple of weeks, that TVR will 'entertain' us with a press release in response!
The Typhon is not going ahead. People who have had deposits down for 2 years have had them returned.
I am cautious to say whether you will be right with the continuation of the SP6. I think the deciding factor will be how many of the TII's and Sagaris come back...
It will be a test whether the problem will be swept under the carpet, or TVR decide to publically draw a line under the SP6 and distance themselves by going down another line. Problem is, after the SP6, how many people are going to want to jump the queues to get own the first of a new era of in house engines!
My SP6 was a great engine. It never 'went bang'. However I respect TVRCraft for what they are doing. I hope they have every success. If TVR had done the right thing in the first place, or for the last 5 years, ironically they would never exist!
I only wish that in response to the public launch in a couple of weeks, that TVR will 'entertain' us with a press release in response!
SXS said:
Recent count shows them to still be failing, some include post March cars too!
No names mentioned, but ask around and you'll know who they are.
I also hear one of them is a Sagaris!!!!
Have a day off sunshine. Most people are told to advertise in the classified's, dont know why you should be so different.
bjwoods said:
I did challenge someone with the first s6 engine car to get to 5ok miles with just servicing
Mr Woods (not Woodsy) we've crossed swords on this issue before, and you're still the same source of irritation as you were previously. Simarlarly SXS who seems to have taken on the mantle of all knowlegable witout a clue from JSG. Criticisim of the S6 from those with no first hand knowledge continues. Nothing seems to have changed.
You tell me how many Rover engined cars have done 50K miles with just servicing and I'll show you some one who has no real idea of what "just servicing" is.
As others posters have said, if you want a S6 engined car, buy one, if you don't...well dont.
The options? if you want to stay with TVR, continue to throw money into an old car to make it perform something like. It's your choice and there are certainly plenty of "experts" who will take your hard earned cash.
Do your self a favour though, don't post crap when you've obviosuly not got a clue.
There are hundreds if not thousands of chims/griff out there with 30-40-50-60k miles or even much higher with routine servicing... WITH many owners very willing to testify to this, I have not seen/heard of ANY s6's with 30k plus miles, with no work, but plenty of ajp v8's have manged it.
In my opinion, as I'm concerned there is a serious issue / flaw /quality problemwith the s6 engine, it has not been adressed by TVR..
something slightly backed up by the ENGINES designer now providing/talks/fix due to TVR NOT doing it to his original design... If the designer thinks they got it wrong, IT tends to put me for one, off them...
Ultimately, who cares about my opinion, but if the designer is propsing a fix, TVR do NOT defend their engine, who is anyone to believe. or be foolish enough to part with cash now (I HAD actually thought post jsg survey, that they had got it sorted, and was making enquiries about buying one especially after the warranty was changed - ie though to big a risk for the company to do this, if NOT sorted- but I'm inclined to agree with justin, that it is pure marketing, no fix), in light of these new events, ie nov 05, march 05 cars going pop, see other threads
We will have to disagree.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Sunday 7th August 21:39
In my opinion, as I'm concerned there is a serious issue / flaw /quality problemwith the s6 engine, it has not been adressed by TVR..
something slightly backed up by the ENGINES designer now providing/talks/fix due to TVR NOT doing it to his original design... If the designer thinks they got it wrong, IT tends to put me for one, off them...
Ultimately, who cares about my opinion, but if the designer is propsing a fix, TVR do NOT defend their engine, who is anyone to believe. or be foolish enough to part with cash now (I HAD actually thought post jsg survey, that they had got it sorted, and was making enquiries about buying one especially after the warranty was changed - ie though to big a risk for the company to do this, if NOT sorted- but I'm inclined to agree with justin, that it is pure marketing, no fix), in light of these new events, ie nov 05, march 05 cars going pop, see other threads
We will have to disagree.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Sunday 7th August 21:39
bjwoods said:
There are hundreds if not thousands of chims/griff out there with 30-40-50-60k miles or even much higher with routine servicing... WITH many owners very willing to testify to this, I have not seen/heard of ANY s6's with 30k plus miles, with no work, but plenty of ajp v8's have manged it.
In my opinion, as I'm concerned there is a serious issue / flaw /quality problemwith the s6 engine, it has not been adressed by TVR..
something slightly backed up by the ENGINES designer now providing/talks/fix due to TVR NOT doing it to his original design... If the designer thinks they got it wrong, IT tends to put me for one, off them...
Ultimately, who cares about my opinion, but if the designer is propsing a fix, TVR do NOT defend their engine, who is anyone to believe. or be foolish enough to part with cash now (I HAD actually thought post jsg survey, that they had got it sorted, and was making enquiries about buying one especially after the warranty was changed - ie though to big a risk for the company to do this, if NOT sorted- but I'm inclined to agree with justin, that it is pure marketing, no fix), in light of these new events, ie nov 05, march 05 cars going pop, see other threads
We will have to disagree.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Sunday 7th August 21:39
I can't make head nor tale of the nonesense you've just posted, but I will suggest the following.
The designer of the S6 engine has been presented with a stage to defend/explain the perceived short comings in the engines design. He stands to make commercial gain from this forum.
TVR dont feel they need to do this, he does. He designed it. I smell somthing.
Thousands of RV8s that have done the mileage you suugest with oly routine maintenace.........No. Sorry, you're wrong.
Daftlad said:Statistically insiginificant sample of one ... mine has done 68k miles with just regular servicing on the engine. Closest item to the block that has been touched is the water pump gasket.
You tell me how many Rover engined cars have done 50K miles with just servicing and I'll show you some one who has no real idea of what "just servicing" is.
(Non service items ... new shocks, new radiator, new alternator, new water pump, new discs, reconditioned diff and quite a few tyres.)
From what I've read, I may well need a new cam shaft in the near future, but it hasn't caused problems yet.
Have I misunderstood "regular service"?
Words like "don't post crap when you haven't got a clue" aren't always the wisest.
ATG said:
Daftlad said:
You tell me how many Rover engined cars have done 50K miles with just servicing and I'll show you some one who has no real idea of what "just servicing" is.
Statistically insiginificant sample of one ... mine has done 68k miles with just regular servicing on the engine. Closest item to the block that has been touched is the water pump gasket.
(.
Now read the post and see if you can see where I suggested that we were being specific to the engine.
Crap...post...I think I'll stay with the statement, nothing personal of course.
>> Edited by Daftlad on Sunday 7th August 22:28
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