The Speed 6's are still going pop!

[unrepentant]

mungo said:

Wake up and smell the coffee!

And your point is dibble?

[ouagadougou]

and another sp6 thread deteriorates into the baters versus the bated and I wonder who is mastering who

[Daftlad]

unrepentant said:

mungo said: Wake up and smell the coffee! And your point is dibble?

He hasn't got one, but then he never has. I guess I mentioned the word crap in my last few postings and he took that as a que for entry.

[heyandy]

I once spoke to a TVR mechanic at an extremely well known dealership. His analysis was simmple...the S6 has an alleged design flaw. Every car that went back to the place where he works had the same failures due to the engine's configuration. He also alleged that the factory put these cars on the road without giving the dealerships the necessary technical information in which to service these cars. This means a lot of punters have probably been ripped off some major money before and after their engines went pop.

I own a a 350i. I wouldn't go near a S6 engined car unless there was enough evidence to indicate it was sound and reliable which makes perfect sense on any car you buy whether it be a TVR or whatever. My opinion has been formed by what I've read on PH and by what I've heard from informed sources.

There are stories of Wedge owners ruining their RV8 engines due to a lack of mechanical sympathy. My car is sound and has been due to regular servicing and has hit 51k.

However, today I spotted a Chim being tailed by a Tuscan on the A12 and the Tuscan looked and sounded awesome. Whatever the state of its engine - it did enough to convince me the Tuscan is a fantastic car which is what really counts to those who pay their money and makes their choice.

[unrepentant]

Daftlad said:

unrepentant said: mungo said: Wake up and smell the coffee! And your point is dibble? He hasn't got one, but then he never has. I guess I mentioned the word crap in my last few postings and he took that as a que for entry.

Hi John.

Did MrsS tell you we formed a S6 convoy down the A1 the other day?

[Daftlad]

ouagadougou said:

and another sp6 thread deteriorates into the baters versus the bated and I wonder who is mastering who

And what did anyone expect when Ted created an S6 engine problems forum??

No one is mastering the other. Nor will they.

[Daftlad]

unrepentant said:

Daftlad said: unrepentant said: mungo said: Wake up and smell the coffee! And your point is dibble? He hasn't got one, but then he never has. I guess I mentioned the word crap in my last few postings and he took that as a que for entry. Hi John. Did MrsS tell you we formed a S6 convoy down the A1 the other day?

She did and also mentioned the fact the you both got through the road works with neither car needing a rebuild. Now that's the kind of achivement that deserves recognition.........in the eyes of some.

>> Edited by Daftlad on Sunday 7th August 22:39

[ATG]

Daftlad said:

ATG said: Daftlad said: You tell me how many Rover engined cars have done 50K miles with just servicing and I'll show you some one who has no real idea of what "just servicing" is. Statistically insiginificant sample of one ... mine has done 68k miles with just regular servicing on the engine. Closest item to the block that has been touched is the water pump gasket. (. Now read the post and see if you can see where I suggested that we were being specific to the engine. Crap...post...I think I'll stay with the statement, nothing personal of course. >> Edited by Daftlad on Sunday 7th August 22:28

Forgive me, but i thought we were talking about the S6 ... which is an engine ... (check the title of the thread if you're in any doubt)

[Daftlad]

ATG said:

Forgive me, but i thought we were talking about the S6 ... which is an engine ... (check the title of the thread if you're in any doubt)

Rover engined CARS is what was said...But you just post what you need to try and demonstrate a point - we all do it, some honestly, some in error, some as a form of advertising. Dont take it to heart, if you enjoy the car, carry on.

I just get tired of the S6 bashing, and if the bashers can spout such a high percentage of nonsense, why not the bashed for a change

[ATG]

Daftlad said:

ATG said: Forgive me, but i thought we were talking about the S6 ... which is an engine ... (check the title of the thread if you're in any doubt) Rover engined CARS is what was said...But you just post what you need to try and demonstrate a point - we all do it, some honestly, some in error, some as a form of advertising. Dont take it to heart, if you enjoy the car, carry on. I just get tired of the S6 bashing, and if the bashers can spout such a high percentage of nonsense, why not the bashed for a change

Apology accepted

[unrepentant]

ATG said:

Daftlad said: ATG said: Forgive me, but i thought we were talking about the S6 ... which is an engine ... (check the title of the thread if you're in any doubt) Rover engined CARS is what was said...But you just post what you need to try and demonstrate a point - we all do it, some honestly, some in error, some as a form of advertising. Dont take it to heart, if you enjoy the car, carry on. I just get tired of the S6 bashing, and if the bashers can spout such a high percentage of nonsense, why not the bashed for a change Apology accepted

I didnt read it as an apology.


: stir :

[ATG]

right, that's it ... ing handbags at dawn

>> Edited by ATG on Sunday 7th August 23:16

[justinp1]

Daftlad said:

I can't make head nor tale of the nonesense you've just posted, but I will suggest the following. The designer of the S6 engine has been presented with a stage to defend/explain the perceived short comings in the engines design. He stands to make commercial gain from this forum. TVR dont feel they need to do this, he does. He designed it. I smell somthing. Thousands of RV8s that have done the mileage you suugest with oly routine maintenace.........No. Sorry, you're wrong.

I think what bjwoods (and many others including me) is not looking for Honda reliability. But, taking into account that the Tuscan offers the performance it does we can lower the reliability expectations a little.

It would be fair enough (in some eyes) to expect that the Speed 6 engine to have a failure rate of 5% at up to 25,000 miles (paid for my TVR) maybe 15% by 40,000 miles and 20% by 60,000 miles.

JSG's own estimate is that the current rebuild rate is 80% of all the SP6's. That includes a lot of engines with less than 25,000 miles.

The problem is is that the SP6 is not even in the right city, let alone in the right ballpark! Additionally out of the previous 1 year warranty rebuild costs are payable my the owner in whole.

It is entirely because of the fact that this problem exists to everyone concerned and it dealt with in an unsatisfactory way that an outside company CAN come in and despite TVR's obvious advantage, like they have ALL the figures and reasons for rebuilds, can still offer an alternative fix for a flawed engine. Good luck to TVR Craft and the designer. I dont think a single person on here, even the staunch opponents of threads like this can deny that the SP6 has had serious problems and also TVR is acting in a very poor way to fix them.


It is simply not the case that TVR has never been presented with the opportunity to make public their side of the story, or did 'not feel the need to do this'.

TVR could have done this at any time. With all the adverse publicity which is killing TVR, especially now there is someone who can build their own engine better, why do they not release a statement?

The reason is, what on earth do they say???

Put it this way, if I bought a company who had a huge amount of publicity previously for a problematic engine, and I had a 'magic fix' for previous and the new engines in cars being sold, I would make sure anybody and everybody knew about it!!!!

The real question is, why have TVR not said this?

The answer is they dont have a 'magic fix'.

Why have TVR not made another statement about either the 'potential design flaw' or 'sustandard parts'?

They cant because one or both is true! Whichever they admit to in public means that everyone who has paid for a rebuild will want their money back and all SP6 owners would be entitled to the work for free at any time in the future.

TVR 'do not feel the need' to publicise a statement on the problem, as it will cost them money and they cant afford or do not want to pay for the consequences!

[SXS]

Daftlad said:

Have a day off sunshine. Most people are told to advertise in the classified's, dont know why you should be so different.

Dont call me 'sunshine', you antagonizing tosser.
What the fecks your problem???
You got a problem with free speech?????

And whats wrong with JSG???? The mans a genius, one of the most respected in his field of work worldwide. He is one of the most genuine guys I've known on here, was you one of the brigade that shot him for speaking sense????

You think I need to own a Speed 6 before plastering a post up here? I didnt see that one in the rules. If I wanted, I would flippin buy a saggyarse tomorrow, but why? I rather put the money into my project, I'm a V8 man, period.

I made a few fair points, which part of what I said was wrong?

Why am I talking crap by saying a number of speed 6's have gone pop? Why dont you call TVR Power/TVRCraft/Sp6 Tech and ask yourself and get some numbers smartarse.

Man you're way off the mark, do you know how many speed 6 engines I've seen stripped, and its THE SAME damn wear and tear IN THE SAME DAMN area... dont tell me its THE SAME DAMN STUPID drivers... ignorance is bliss right?

I've owned a few TVRs for over 7 years now, and love the marquee, what the feck will I get out of chatting shite?

Feckin pathetic, come on here to just share some information and get told to stfu. You wanna come down south to explore other ways to piss someone off for no bloody reason?

Virtually Pointless.

Point was simple "if they're fixed, then why they still popping! oh yeah, I can see it now, on the 911 forums, they're all popping too???? blame it on poncy inexperienced gits who dont know how to look after a high performance car???? feckin hell what bus did you fall off????"

Bottom line is:
Come to the Melling talk, I'll be there along with many other non-speed 6 owners and speed 6 owners and wannabe owners, maybe things will make more sense after you hear what the original designer has to say.

[GreenV8S]

SXS said:

Dont call me 'sunshine', you antagonizing tosser. What the fecks your problem??? You got a problem with free speech????? flippin ... smartarse ... Man you're way off the mark ... what the feck ... Feckin pathetic ... feckin hell what bus did you fall off???? ... etc

Ash I'm sure you'd be great to talk to face to face, but here you come across as somebody who proclaims his own right to express his opinion no matter who is pissed off, but flies off the handle if anyone disagrees with him. Chill dude, if everyone agreed with each other there'd be no point having a discussion.

[SXS]

Peter, look bud, I'm fair, but I hate personally-directed pisstakes, I didnt say anything negative towards ANYONE in this thread, and daftlad comes along and starts ripping into me, I dont think thats a way to have a healthy discussion, everyone gets pissed off but I surely didnt deserve that attitude.

Probably I'm gonna get told off again, I mean all I did was mention the fact more recent speed 6's were off the road due to engine failure, why that would put someone on a high horse is beyond me.

If I got it all wrong and daftlad wasnt taking the piss then I'm one stupid prat and I apologise.

I dont proclaim to be anything, I just opened a thread for discussion, it was as simple as that.

You tell me, was that wrong???????????

[Daftlad]

SXS said:

Dont call me 'sunshine', you antagonizing tosser. What the fecks your problem??? You got a problem with free speech????? .

Not really Ash, I've got a problem with posts like yours. "another speed 6 goes pop". No details, nothing tangible.

SXS said:

And whats wrong with JSG???? The mans a genius, one of the most respected in his field of work worldwide. He is one of the most genuine guys I've known on here, was you one of the brigade that shot him for speaking sense????

No one shot JSG, as far as I'am aware he is alive and kicking. While he may well be one of the most respected in his field of work worldwide, I may have suggeted he stuck to that field of expertise instead of proclaiming himself to be some kind of S6 guru. (IMHO)

SXS said:

You think I need to own a Speed 6 before plastering a post up here? I didnt see that one in the rules. If I wanted, I would flippin buy a saggyarse tomorrow, but why? I rather put the money into my project, I'm a V8 man, period.

I think that some first hand experience is helpful when having such a forcefull opinion. On the Sagris front, its your money and you do what you want, no one suggesting you buy one. For the record I'm more than curious to see the fruits of your labour in the Cerb project at Cream. I'll be there in my 4.5 LWT and will make a point of coming to introduce myself.

SXS said:

I made a few fair points, which part of what I said was wrong?

Fraid not Ash, and thats what annoyed me. You posted further unsubstantiated information on more cars going pop. A cynical person would even suggest it to be a form of advertising for that company that you may or may not have links with.

SXS said:

Why am I talking crap by saying a number of speed 6's have gone pop? Why dont you call TVR Power/TVRCraft/Sp6 Tech and ask yourself and get some numbers smartarse.

Why would they have the numbers?

SXS said:

Man you're way off the mark, do you know how many speed 6 engines I've seen stripped, and its THE SAME damn wear and tear IN THE SAME DAMN area... dont tell me its THE SAME DAMN STUPID drivers... ignorance is bliss right?

I dont know the answer to any of those two questions, maybe ignorance is bliss though.

SXS said:

I've owned a few TVRs for over 7 years now, and love the marquee, what the feck will I get out of chatting shite?

I've owned them for 25 years, same applies I'm afraid.

SXS said:

Bottom line is: Come to the Melling talk, I'll be there along with many other non-speed 6 owners and speed 6 owners and wannabe owners, maybe things will make more sense after you hear what the original designer has to say.

Everything makes perfect sense to me know Ash. I don't need to listen to what the orignal designer has to say to defend his reputaion should he be associated with the failure of the engine he principaly designed. Thats how I see the talk going, but thats just an opinion.

If it had been local, I may have been tempted.

Best of luck with finishing the Cerb, and apologies for the patronising "sunshine" in the reponse to the original post.

>> Edited by Daftlad on Monday 8th August 06:54

[Podie]

SXS said:

Podie said: ... drive it like a tt and you'll knacker it. That goes without saying, but come on, how many new owners of rover V8s popped their engines a few thousand miles after purchase? Its not children buying these fairly high-priced sportscars (obviously this doesnt include the budget priced used tvr market)... (if the speed 6 is a pure race-bred engine, then why the 3 year warranty???? I dont remember seeing race engine builders give 3 years warranty with their engines!)

You're not compariing like with like. The RV8 was (to paraphrase a well known TVR indie) carved from solid oak, it really is a bit of a lump and stronger than it really needs to be - a bit like the old RB block from the Skylines. I also think that your swipe at the "budget priced used TVR market" is way out of line. If anything the owners of the older cars tend to be easier on their cars, rather than the "I've got a warranty" ethos of some of the buyers from new. They may not be children, but they behave like them. As GreenV8S said - how many of them really do run them in properly..?

Why the three year warranty..? Simple, if your product is maligned by lack of confidence, what would YOU do as a manufacturer to try and instill faith in your product amongst others..? Again, comparing a real race engine to a race-derived production car engine is not a comparison.

SXS said:

I dont know whats going on, I dont own a Speed 6, but it just brings tears that 7 years on and they still havent got it right.... albeit a lot less problems, they're still happening.... I'm thinking, what if its the guys who build these engines, what if they're just not QC minded??? just a thought

So this whole thread in conjecture..?

SXS said:

I suppose we'll all be at the Al Mellings conference, so we can make our own minds up after that.

No, I was wrong - it is in fact an advert. What sort of comission are you on..?


EDIT- missed this bit

SXS said:

a) TVR's engine builders aint QC managed b) there are still poor components flying around c) there is indeed a design flaw d) drivers who dont run their beasts by the book?

e) the fact that people seem to forget to fill them with the appropriate fluids...

>> Edited by Podie on Monday 8th August 10:07

[sideways mostly]

SXS- really interested to hear how your Cerbie project turns out, 1000 bhp will be something to see and hear. In the mean time why not give it a rest for a while- you have made your point over the S6 and for all I know you may me right. But you might want to consider why there are very few new owners who are PH'rs.
I am a new owner-bought my first TVR 18 months ago and now have invested my very hard owned in a new T350.
I did my research,I have put aside some money just in case and I now want to enjoy my car and share that enjoyment with others - like PH'rs.
The constant battling over the Speed 6 is very wearing
and in my personal view not nessacery. I can't imaging any Speed 6 owner is unaware of the 'risk' they are taking-I was aware and I only looked at TVR a relatively short while ago. Within a few minutes of mentioning it at work I heard TVR's were unreliable,engines failed etc,etc. this is from people who had virtually zero interest in cars.

So I think it is possible that the issue is understood widely.I am sure you are well meaning and honest soul but honestly mate- record,cracked.


Ted a belated thanks for opening up a specific forum for the Speed 6 debate

[SXS]

Point taken. I'll throw this record away.

(sideways, thats all somebody had to say!)