Life after rebuild?
Discussion
[quote] Furthermore I think it would only be fair to add the fifth (and perhaps most obvious) group of 'vested interests' on here:
That is the group of people who own SP6 cars and are against numerous discussions on SP6 reliability due to the fact that it would either (or all of)
1) Affect the residual value of their car
2) Provide the view that their car may not be perfect
3) Provide the evidence of the very real possibility that they may be hit with some of the costly problems many others have encountered thus making it difficult to enjoy their car without thinking about them.
It must also be said that many of the vociferous proTVRtilIdie guys contribute a lot of the anti-anythingbutTVR opinions when the subject of rebuilds are raised. And yes, as it has been mentioned it is important to remember the background and experiences as a projective viewpoint to their comments. Not many of this group have had rebuilds.[/quote]
1) Yes-thats why I posted
2) No - I am well aware that TVR's are not perfect
3) When I had a 2003 Tuscan I put aside £5k just in case-now I have a T350 I rely on the warranty
Happy to a member of the fifth column of pro-TVR
owners Justin
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 27th August 22:20
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 27th August 22:21
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 27th August 22:21
That is the group of people who own SP6 cars and are against numerous discussions on SP6 reliability due to the fact that it would either (or all of)
1) Affect the residual value of their car
2) Provide the view that their car may not be perfect
3) Provide the evidence of the very real possibility that they may be hit with some of the costly problems many others have encountered thus making it difficult to enjoy their car without thinking about them.
It must also be said that many of the vociferous proTVRtilIdie guys contribute a lot of the anti-anythingbutTVR opinions when the subject of rebuilds are raised. And yes, as it has been mentioned it is important to remember the background and experiences as a projective viewpoint to their comments. Not many of this group have had rebuilds.[/quote]
1) Yes-thats why I posted
2) No - I am well aware that TVR's are not perfect
3) When I had a 2003 Tuscan I put aside £5k just in case-now I have a T350 I rely on the warranty
Happy to a member of the fifth column of pro-TVR
owners Justin
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 27th August 22:20
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 27th August 22:21
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 27th August 22:21
[quote=sideways mostly][quote]
Happy to a member of the fifth column of pro-TVR
owners Justin
[quote]
Glad to hear it!
My comments were not meant as a rebuttal and certainly not a dig, more an acknowledgement of an important group who are a big part of PH.
It must be said that there are the whole spectrum of views on here from those who have been particularly scathing of TVR to those who will fight any criticism to the death. I think the most important thing on here is to have empathy with fellow owners positions even though your own experience has been different.
The three points I brought up are all ones I understand and have been worried about myself. As you have mentioned, the reason you posted is that you were worried about falling residual values, something which affects all of us not rich enough to not notice losing a few thousand quid!
Personally I think Unrepentant for one has played the residual game very well, and to lose only £4k a year from a new car is remarkable. On a 2000 Tuscan I owned for just less than a year I actually lost £5k so technically I would have been better off with a new one!
Now, I *know* the fact that the drop in price for my car was due to the rebuild situation. I say this as I spoke to approximately 20 potential buyers and dealers and without fail the fact that the engine had never needed being rebuilt (thus was perceived about to go bang) was a terminal stumbling block.
I do think that PH forums have a nationwide audience, and have spoken to random car nuts who have said that they also read PH so I do think that this to a certain extent is the source of some public opinion, especially with owners.
With blaming PH however we are left with a situation where perhaps (like TVR) we should protect our own interests by not talking about the subject. The fundamental flaw in this is whether it is discussed or not it will affect reliability in any way. This would mean that more buyers would purchase say, an early Tuscan, with no information, and thus being burned and never coming back whilst 'telling their mates'.
Rather than shooting the messenger (PH) I would rather do something about the cause (TVR). If owners from both sides can discuss these problems in an a constructive way there is a hell of a knowledge base. If TVR took just a little bit of the opinions here I am sure they could improve things for all TVR owners.
>> Edited by justinp1 on Saturday 27th August 23:07
Happy to a member of the fifth column of pro-TVR
owners Justin
[quote]
Glad to hear it!
My comments were not meant as a rebuttal and certainly not a dig, more an acknowledgement of an important group who are a big part of PH.
It must be said that there are the whole spectrum of views on here from those who have been particularly scathing of TVR to those who will fight any criticism to the death. I think the most important thing on here is to have empathy with fellow owners positions even though your own experience has been different.
The three points I brought up are all ones I understand and have been worried about myself. As you have mentioned, the reason you posted is that you were worried about falling residual values, something which affects all of us not rich enough to not notice losing a few thousand quid!
Personally I think Unrepentant for one has played the residual game very well, and to lose only £4k a year from a new car is remarkable. On a 2000 Tuscan I owned for just less than a year I actually lost £5k so technically I would have been better off with a new one!
Now, I *know* the fact that the drop in price for my car was due to the rebuild situation. I say this as I spoke to approximately 20 potential buyers and dealers and without fail the fact that the engine had never needed being rebuilt (thus was perceived about to go bang) was a terminal stumbling block.
I do think that PH forums have a nationwide audience, and have spoken to random car nuts who have said that they also read PH so I do think that this to a certain extent is the source of some public opinion, especially with owners.
With blaming PH however we are left with a situation where perhaps (like TVR) we should protect our own interests by not talking about the subject. The fundamental flaw in this is whether it is discussed or not it will affect reliability in any way. This would mean that more buyers would purchase say, an early Tuscan, with no information, and thus being burned and never coming back whilst 'telling their mates'.
Rather than shooting the messenger (PH) I would rather do something about the cause (TVR). If owners from both sides can discuss these problems in an a constructive way there is a hell of a knowledge base. If TVR took just a little bit of the opinions here I am sure they could improve things for all TVR owners.
>> Edited by justinp1 on Saturday 27th August 23:07
spartacus said:
By the way Justinp1, just looked at your profile, unusual to see a yellow Tuscan with anthracite spiders, excellent combination!
Cheers!
Sadly though she has now been sold. Yellow is a difficult car to shift as it is a 'love it or hate it colour'. I think the anthracite spiders definately compliment it though. I will be looking for another Tuscan in about 6 months and think that I would definately plan the anthracites into the equation again, perhaps with gunmetal grey or black? Who knows!?
los angeles said:
I'm sorry, but I do not agree that the banter on here is the cause of TVR cars values falling, the falling began a few years back...
I can only speak for myself: I bought my TVR long after I wanted a Tuscan. Hearing strong rumours circulating that it was unreliable, mostly anecdotal, I checked out a few new ones in showrooms.
I took a look at the early model and was not impressed by the exterior build quality - the interior was stunning; so, those imperfections and the rumours caused me to choose the tried and tested Griffith. It wasn't until about 2 months later that I came across Pistonheads, and even then only because I was surfing the web in search of history of the Griffith.
I'm sure others are like me, preferring to be well informed before making an important purchase, but as my example shows, in the case of the Tuscan you didn't need Pistonheads to discover some of the weaknesses. However, knowledge of the exact engine problem did come from Pistonheads.
A sound purchase LA...
I have also given the SP6 cars a good look and come to the same conclusion...I really want an SP6 version of the mark.
I just hope the Melling fix is a success...The engine needs to be getting to at least 50K though to be proven!
justinp1 said:
If owners from both sides can discuss these problems in an a constructive way there is a hell of a knowledge base. If TVR took just a little bit of the opinions here I am sure they could improve things for all TVR owners.
>> Edited by justinp1 on Saturday 27th August 23:07
I am in complete agreement with this Justin.
supaspark said:
SXS said:
I'm sorry, but I do not agree that the banter on here is the cause of TVR cars values falling, the falling began a few years back...
I can only speak for myself: I bought my TVR long after I wanted a Tuscan. Hearing strong rumours circulating that it was unreliable, mostly anecdotal, I checked out a few new ones in showrooms.
I took a look at the early model and was not impressed by the exterior build quality - the interior was stunning; so, those imperfections and the rumours caused me to choose the tried and tested Griffith. It wasn't until about 2 months later that I came across Pistonheads, and even then only because I was surfing the web in search of history of the Griffith.
I'm sure others are like me, preferring to be well informed before making an important purchase, but as my example shows, in the case of the Tuscan you didn't need Pistonheads to discover some of the weaknesses. However, knowledge of the exact engine problem did come from Pistonheads.
A sound purchase LA...
I have also given the SP6 cars a good look and come to the same conclusion...I really want an SP6 version of the mark.
I just hope the Melling fix is a success...The engine needs to be getting to at least 50K though to be proven!
With regard to the improvements in build quality I can see the point which LA makes. Early Tuscans had a few problems, most notably with the fitting of the roof. On mine the three panels that the roof was made of never seemed aligned, and were certainly not aligned with the body of the car when it was fitted. This, with the chipping of the 'A' frame by the roof when fitted meant that the problems around the roof was quite noticable. There were other little niggles as well, but in looking at newer Tuscans it seems that each of these have been ironed out in a couple of years toward the newer ones.
los angeles said:
With regard to the improvements in build quality I can see the point which LA makes. Early Tuscans had a few problems, most notably with the fitting of the roof.
Justin, your comments give me more thought about the Tuscan.
The roof line was one of those clumsy details that I knew would always irk me every time I looked at the car. It suggested to me the model had been placed in showrooms before proper completion, not a comforting sign. I remember standing there desperately keen to make my purchase, over-awed by the invention of the interir yet wholly unable to match it with the sloppiness of the exterior. In addition, reading reviews in car rags gave impression it was unstable at high speeds. Other controversial aspects were more subjective than practical.
The clam shell bonnet didn't inspire me. The stacked lights did; thrilling - a steam train bearing down on you on the highway, but why were they left open, unconnected? I had aesthetic problems with the over elabrorate clam shell bonnet, and the penny arcade coin slot grille. To me, the fussy front graphics were at odds with the pure minimalism of the rear end. By the way, I knew the headlights needed covered to harmonise them and had been on the concept, the cover left off to avoid condensation problems arising later. (How do Ferrari avoid it in their four seater? Or do they?)
The side elevation seemed weakened by the dropped hip. For once the recessed door, by then a TVR signature, appeared both lazy and intrusive, disjointed, cutting the beautiful lines of the side view in half. Coupled with the grille, and a rear end generalised by a lack of lights to pull the muscularity together, I was put off buying one. The fashion for camouflage paint and lurid colours also repelled. I shared the observations with others, but in my case they were detrimental to a sale. It was an emotional wrench to walk away. However, like you, I was pleased to see some build issues corrected as sales took off.
A year later and I will not forget the day I saw a brand new black on black Tuscan in a showroom, all alloy dials and buttons except for the brass left in the pod - a Versaci suit of armour. I was utterly transfixed a second time. But by then the Speed 6 problems were well known and public, to the point even dealers were prepared to discuss them, and anyhow, my Griffith had had too many compliments to make me feel I had made an error.
I have no wish to play "Russian Roulette" with my hard earned savings. Nevertheless, as I said elsewhere, pre-owned ones are so cheap nowadays it must be worthwhile buying one and giving it to Cocky Melling for a final fix.
LA
>> Edited by los angeles on Sunday 28th August 14:50
Man, I've always loved reading your posts, and this one is exceptional, you've got soo much to say, miss those days, your replies of late have been one-liners maybe two, bring back the old LA!
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