Replacing the Speed Six with a V8
Discussion
unrepentant said:
Seeing as I've been advised to come on here by TVR to research this issue (with a warning that I might encounter the odd a***hole - what foresight...), I was glad to see that some kind people have been able to point me in the right direction.
You, however, Mr Unrepentant, are seemingly here to post irrelevant comments and to provide no assistance at all.
Why are you here? Nothing intelligent to contribute? Maybe you're in the wrong place.
Ah personal insults. Excellent. The last refuge of the intellectually challenged.
to quote 'Why do you think anyone gives a monkeys about what you think? You sanctimonious little twerp.' I think that this is a really interesting topic for me and many others.
I've driven lots of speed six cars but for all kinds of reasons (not just reliability but also noise, power delivery, etc.) if I could get a turnkey LSx implant in a Tuscan for the price of a S6 rebuild then there would be one on my drive today. Wonder how many other TVR owners would agree?
Having said that I do agree that TVR need their OWN engine to be a "great" marque. So perhaps, whilst I totally understand the objection that loyal S6 owners have to their cars (and therefore their residuals) getting knocked on a public forum, surely the best possible outcome is that this issue gets perceived to be significant enough for TVR to take notice and fix it. Then confidence returns to the brand follewed by consumer demand. Didn't all new TVRs go through a similar loop in their early years - albeit somewhat shorter than this current one?
This kind of assume they don't go bump in the meanwhile of course.
Oh ... Have I answered my own question
Marco
<edited to add stuff>
>> Edited by Marco on Friday 9th September 15:54
I've driven lots of speed six cars but for all kinds of reasons (not just reliability but also noise, power delivery, etc.) if I could get a turnkey LSx implant in a Tuscan for the price of a S6 rebuild then there would be one on my drive today. Wonder how many other TVR owners would agree?
Having said that I do agree that TVR need their OWN engine to be a "great" marque. So perhaps, whilst I totally understand the objection that loyal S6 owners have to their cars (and therefore their residuals) getting knocked on a public forum, surely the best possible outcome is that this issue gets perceived to be significant enough for TVR to take notice and fix it. Then confidence returns to the brand follewed by consumer demand. Didn't all new TVRs go through a similar loop in their early years - albeit somewhat shorter than this current one?
This kind of assume they don't go bump in the meanwhile of course.
Oh ... Have I answered my own question
Marco
<edited to add stuff>
>> Edited by Marco on Friday 9th September 15:54
Marco said:
I've driven lots of speed six cars but for all kinds of reasons (not just reliability but also noise, power delivery, etc.) if I could get a turnkey LSx implant in a Tuscan for the price of a S6 rebuild then there would be one on my drive today. Wonder how many other TVR owners would agree?
Undoubtedly there'd be a long queue but if you take the Autocraft job as £6K inc vat then IMHO the LSx route is going to be +50% at a minimum, probably +100%, but would that be cheaper in the long run?
JR said:
I've driven lots of speed six cars but for all kinds of reasons (not just reliability but also noise, power delivery, etc.) if I could get a turnkey LSx implant in a Tuscan for the price of a S6 rebuild then there would be one on my drive today. Wonder how many other TVR owners would agree?
Undoubtedly there'd be a long queue but if you take the Autocraft job as £6K inc vat then IMHO the LSx route is going to be +50% at a minimum, probably +100%, but would that be cheaper in the long run?
It may be cheaper in the long run. From a business and cost perspective, the first few conversions, if possible would be very expensive as a lot of parts would have to be custom modified then perhaps developed to amek them work as planned. If the demand was there though and the parts could be made and the process refined to make it cheaper the price would come down.
Of course, the cheapest way to include the LS1 or similar would be to design the car to take it in the first place. Of course this would please some, but in the long term it *may* devalue the marque and financially it would not be good for the dealers etc.
After all, if the service cost for the LS1 were about £500 every 12,000 miles or more this would be a lot less income for the servicing departments. Furthermore, there would be less reason to take your car to a 'TVR specialist' as after all the LS1 is a lot more simple, common and the parts can be ordered quickly and easily.
In conclusion, I think the LS1 would be good for some, but I can never see TVR going down that route from a financial standpoint. For the possibility of customising your own car, it may be possible if you have money as no object, but I dont hink that there will be enough demand to get enough cars converted to make it a financially viable option for all.
An LSx engine conversion will cost over 10K easily, do your research, talk to those who have done similar work, and even when they did it themselves, the parts/custom bits all added up to being over 10K then theres the labour on top if you're gonna have someone do it for ya.
I've never heard of full on conversion costing less than around 8k, but when you need to redesign front end chassis, screw around with the bodywork and then also count the costs of a new ECU and wiring loom/adaptor etc etc etc... you start to realise, theres no plug-n-play here, the Speed 6 was never designed to be a drop in chassis, the chassis WAS developed for the Speed 6 engine, period.
The Speed 6 chassis requires extensive modifications to fit a 90degree V8 - theres no easy way around it, also dont forget the running ancillaries, they need even more space, and the chassis itself will have to be seriously modified to get it to facilitate a V8 of any kind.
If you got the dosh, then go for it, will make a lurvlee ride, but in my opinion, the speed 6 is THE tuscan, a V8 just wouldnt be a tuscan anymore... and anyway, these days you can pick up a nice looking C5 Corvette for around the 15-18k mark, just get shot of the tuscan and buy a Corvette if you want an LS engine... or, hire the likes of Jon (Jellison) to do a chimaera conversion for you, and he'll tell you straight the costs involved, and take note, its a hell of a lot simple using the Chimaera chassis as it was designed to hold the 90degree RV8... full story on the LS6 Chimaera conversion can be found at www.bhpworld.com
I've never heard of full on conversion costing less than around 8k, but when you need to redesign front end chassis, screw around with the bodywork and then also count the costs of a new ECU and wiring loom/adaptor etc etc etc... you start to realise, theres no plug-n-play here, the Speed 6 was never designed to be a drop in chassis, the chassis WAS developed for the Speed 6 engine, period.
The Speed 6 chassis requires extensive modifications to fit a 90degree V8 - theres no easy way around it, also dont forget the running ancillaries, they need even more space, and the chassis itself will have to be seriously modified to get it to facilitate a V8 of any kind.
If you got the dosh, then go for it, will make a lurvlee ride, but in my opinion, the speed 6 is THE tuscan, a V8 just wouldnt be a tuscan anymore... and anyway, these days you can pick up a nice looking C5 Corvette for around the 15-18k mark, just get shot of the tuscan and buy a Corvette if you want an LS engine... or, hire the likes of Jon (Jellison) to do a chimaera conversion for you, and he'll tell you straight the costs involved, and take note, its a hell of a lot simple using the Chimaera chassis as it was designed to hold the 90degree RV8... full story on the LS6 Chimaera conversion can be found at www.bhpworld.com
I think "unrepentant" was harshly done to here for a change !! this question has been asked soooooooooooooooooo many times zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
This must be the Speed Six Engine Section........lets all abuse one another again or ask questuions that have already been asked !!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
For those who havent understood this yet......we are finally getting to a milestone in the Speed 6 saga because real information is finally coming out regarding what is wrong and what to do with it instead of the rumours that we have suffered for a long time.
When someone has fitted a V8 in a Tuscan I would love to hear about it, until then zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
This must be the Speed Six Engine Section........lets all abuse one another again or ask questuions that have already been asked !!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
For those who havent understood this yet......we are finally getting to a milestone in the Speed 6 saga because real information is finally coming out regarding what is wrong and what to do with it instead of the rumours that we have suffered for a long time.
When someone has fitted a V8 in a Tuscan I would love to hear about it, until then zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
ouagadougou said:
When someone has fitted a V8 in a Tuscan I would love to hear about it, until then zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hmm, problem is if that were the case we would have a chicken and egg situation. It wont happen until some people get together and sort it. The wont sort it until its talked about. They wont find eachother unless they know people are thinking on the same wavelength. People wont know its possible until people ask the question(s). On here.
This isnt just a pipe dream, I think a very similar situation now means that Autocraft are helping a lot of people... I (could be helped with the exact scenario) believe that the Speed Six reliability question was asked a hell of a lot of times until people realised there is a market for the job to be done and from a lot of peoples input (some from here) meant that the 'idea' came to a workable solution.
I do agree that the same question has been asked a few times, and agree that a quick search on the subject would bring at least two or three similar threads which may have answered the original question. However it must also be said that there are only a few threads with regard to technical questions which have not been in some way covered. To a certain extent a lot of threads on here do bring up the same ideas and information. However, if this helps people then the forum has done its job. If this p*sses people off by seeing the same thread with a similar title, they can either avidly read and express their annoyance or they could possibly choose not to read at all and post somewhere else.
Better than this however would be if some of the people who do remember the previous threads could point the question asker in the right direction, something which I would not doubt make everyone thankful?
ouagadougou said:
I think "unrepentant" was harshly done to here for a change !! this question has been asked soooooooooooooooooo many times zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
What do you mean "for a change".
If someone wants a car with an American V8 why don't they buy a car with an American V8?
The Speed6 is a fantastic engine and is the soul of my car.
Who want to replace a sublime aristocratic english inline six designed and built for the car it sits in with a clunky old american stock V8. The Speed 6 has class.
I am begining to think its highly strung nature and propensity to go bang is part of its charm.I had a very upmarket girlfriend once,had the same ability to drive you mad but fast? he he he he
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 10th September 09:52
I am begining to think its highly strung nature and propensity to go bang is part of its charm.I had a very upmarket girlfriend once,had the same ability to drive you mad but fast? he he he he
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 10th September 09:52
sideways mostly said:
Who want to replace a sublime aristocratic english inline six designed and built for the car it sits in with a clunky old american stock V8. The Speed 6 has class.
I am begining to think its highly strung nature and propensity to go bang is part of its charm.I had a very upmarket girlfriend once,had the same ability to drive you mad but fast? he he he he
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 10th September 09:52
sideways mostly said:
Who want to replace a sublime aristocratic english inline six designed and built for the car it sits in with a clunky old american stock V8. The Speed 6 has class.
I am begining to think its highly strung nature and propensity to go bang is part of its charm.I had a very upmarket girlfriend once,had the same ability to drive you mad but fast? he he he he
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Saturday 10th September 09:52
oxbow said:
oxbow said:
timarrowsmith said:
Some people even forge lasting friendships on forums like this.
Not with me!
I'll be your friend Johnny and CWC lurves you.
R. I luv u.
Where is that Finnish, Cornish, Jock CWC?
Who the firk cares where the twot is. A long way away hopefully.
(Didnt he say something about a meeting of Counts in Finland?).
I find it sacrilege, it's like replacing the heart and soul of a finely tuned athelete (tempremental at times, but when on form, nothing can touch it!), with the heart of a pig. A tuscan isn't really a Tuscan with its heart ripped out, the same as a Chimaera isn't a Tuscan when the front has been reworked to simulate the S6 beauty.
Thats only my humble opinion though, and if the guy wants to do it, it's his car.
Thats only my humble opinion though, and if the guy wants to do it, it's his car.
Good thing I've noticed on the speed 6 subjects of late, is the general consensus that people are generally more understanding and can technically relate to facts rather than fiction....
We've come a long way with Mellings talk and Crafts solutions and the general information exposure...
I personally very rarely see a Tuscan on the roads, or a Cerbera for that matter... and both are exhilirating cars, although I do like the Cerbies exhaust note on full blat...
I was thinking, just a thought here, who will be the first to strap a supercharger onto their tuscan?
We've come a long way with Mellings talk and Crafts solutions and the general information exposure...
I personally very rarely see a Tuscan on the roads, or a Cerbera for that matter... and both are exhilirating cars, although I do like the Cerbies exhaust note on full blat...
I was thinking, just a thought here, who will be the first to strap a supercharger onto their tuscan?
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