Prevention or Cure?

[k.k.]

OK, last night I, at last, found the time to read through the "Al Melling/Autocraft" thread! The diversity of views is very interesting. If AM & Autocraft have identified all the S6 problems and can now, as they claim, fix them; would it not make sense for a Speed 6 owner like me (with a currently perfect engine) to have the modifications done NOW to avoid any possible future problems? If, as so may people seem to think, that all S6's will eventually require a re-build (and I'm not convinced as yet), wouldn't it be better to prevent it from happening in advance? I would assume that a preventative "put-right" would be a lot less expensive than a curative rebuild!

[justinbaker]

Repair to Speed Six head is £4950 + VAT

Total £5816.25 with the VAT

This includes:-
All new stainless valves , springs , retainers ,valve guides, shims. Modify oil system in head, gaskets and seals, oil filter and plugs. Remove and refit engine.


Mines gone, and it was treated correctly. 24300 miles, with full TVRFSH, less than a month from its last service. I got and a two fingered salute from TVR, and a letter a few days ago, to say they will not release the information on the engine, as they have no manuals themselves.

But they are sorry to hear of my problems that I am experiencing with my TVR!





>> Edited by justinbaker on Tuesday 20th September 18:02

[JR]

k.k. said:

If AM & Autocraft have identified all the S6 problems and can now, as they claim, fix them; would it not make sense for a Speed 6 owner like me (with a currently perfect engine) to have the modifications done NOW to avoid any possible future problems?

Good idea buy I wouldn't bother. IMHO AM and A/c appear to have identified all of the problems but are not claiming to offer a fix. The head work is on offer but for example a con rod problem has been identified and no fix is currently being offered. If your engine failed because of the con rod problem then you may have wasted your money on the head work. AFAIK A/c offer an alternative but it's not a complete solution for all problems identified.

[J.T.]

Hi KK,

my S6 Cerb is currently nearing completion at Autocraft. I decided to get the work done before the engine failed but I was starting to see the tell tale signs such as excessive oil usage, low oil pressure at tickover and more rattles in the engine than there is usually!

I wouldn't recommend making a pre-emptive strike if you're not seeing any symptoms - just keep an eye and ear open and note any new symptoms (which you may never experience).

If you're worried, you could always take a trip over to Salisbury and ask Dave & Alastair to have a look/listen to your engine - not saying they'll be able to diagnose potntial problems that easily but may well set your mind at ease.

Feel free to email me through my profile if you'd like to talk it through.

In the meantime, enjoy your S6!

JT

p.s. nice photos Justin, they look vaguely familiar!!

[SXS]

I asked Dave about preventative rebuilds and he said its up to the individual, he personally wouldnt recommend getting an upgrade rebuild until the problems start showing. Like its been noted, quite a few cars dont show the symptoms and are running fine.

Its one of those old time sayings "if its not broken, leave it alone".

[zooooom]

I thought the problem associated with number six conrod was exclusive to the 4 liter engine only.
If I remember right from Al Mellings speech the failures are due to the extra loading on the conrods, due to the larger & heavier pistons fitted to the bored out 4 liter engine


>> Edited by zooooom on Tuesday 20th September 23:26

[justinbaker]

JT - I have been hunting down as much information as I can on the speed six. If you have anything else email it accross. I would be greateful, and show my appreciation with beer at one of the events no doubt!

I did spot these that work out at £140 each!

http://motorsport.bdg.com.au/conrod.html
Its an Australian company that makes these. All I need is a set of rods to measure up, and send them an engineering drawing off, for costing and a delivery time.

[whitey]

Justin are you still gonna fix yours yourself or are you getting it re-built by someone?

cheers
Whitey

[JR]

zooooom said:

I thought the problem associated with number six conrod was exclusive to the 4 liter engine only. If I remember right from Al Mellings speech the failures are due to the extra loading on the conrods, due to the larger & heavier pistons fitted to the bored out 4 liter engine

Sadly it's not only a 4l problem. With both the shape of the crank and the con-rod changed inc the c of g of the rod the appears to be a resultant out of balance. The 4l merely exacerbates the situation.

[JR]

justinbaker said:

All I need is a set of rods to measure up, and send them an engineering drawing off, for costing and a delivery time.

Yes but which rods and with which crank? Presumably you wouldn't want to copy the above problem.

[yzf1070]

Spot on JR.....thats exactly as I understood it from the AM talk.

Justin, IMO before you spend more wonga, it may be worth your while speaking to Auto Craft about the value of replacing the rods and crank with billet machined items. If I did indeed pick it up correct, AM said that the No6 rod always failed during excessive bench testing, I can only assume that the altered rod length and crank pins exacerbates this issue. I will be talking to Dave about the value of this option myself when AC eventually have my S6 apart for their top end upgrades. Mind you 140 quid each is good value in comparrison to typical Carillo prices. I paid 1200 quid for 4 Carillo GSXR rods 6 years ago.

Regards
G

[justinbaker]

Just had this back from BDG

We no longer manufacture small quantities of rods. Minimum order is 100 rods. We would require a sample or drawings.

Regards
Mark Pivac
_______________________

Right who's got £14,000+ to risk on this project!!!!
Not me!

[yzf1070]

justinbaker said:

We no longer manufacture small quantities of rods. Minimum order is 100 rods. We would require a sample or drawings. Regards Mark Pivac _______________________

Bloody typical....

[SXS]

Justin, how long before Austec finish your engine?

By the way, I dont know if you know this, but you CANT use those rods in a road engine!

They are drag-racing rods! Specifically designed to stretch on massive load!

You cannot use billet aluminium rods in normal duty road-engines! They are designed to be used for a short period as their tolerances go flip-flop! Drag racers do rebuilds after a few races and replace these with a new set. Due to their lightweight properties and their low cost, they are alternatives to using titanium rods (which can cost the world!).

Be careful when you talk to these engineering companies, they will wanna make a sale, but wont explain the limitations of use and general useability, unless you specifically tell them what purpose the are to be used for.

Good luck with the build, hope Austec gets the car ready for you soon!

[rev-erend]

I thought it was : Autocraft !

[SXS]

rev-erend said:

I thought it was : Autocraft !

Austec have now started providing an engine rebuild service too, they have built a dedicated engine room at their base.

When I last spoke to Justin he said he was considering the Autocraft route, but the price put him off so he went down a different route.

Some of the pics in this thread are Autocrafts pics from the Melling conference, tis a little misleading.

Bloody hell,

so now we have:

Autocraft (Melling Fix)
Speed 6 Tech (ex TVR engine builder)
TVR Power (been there since the beginning)
Austec
APM

Spoilt for choice? You can say that again!

[justinbaker]

From the log of another thread if anyone want the spreadsheet for the own use email me!


The things you do on a sunday morning without a Tuscan!!!!!

[GreenV8S]

These paint a rather worrying picture (in particular some of the repeat failures), but we are only seeing the failures. This doesn't tell us how many of the hundreds/thousands of engines sold have been faultless. Do you have any indication of the percentage failure rate?

[SXS]

GreenV8S said:

These paint a rather worrying picture (in particular some of the repeat failures), but we are only seeing the failures. This doesn't tell us how many of the hundreds/thousands of engines sold have been faultless. Do you have any indication of the percentage failure rate?

I dont think we'll ever know the percentage that are good and the percentage that failed.

I think its safe to assume, the engines have got better.

But general consensus seems to be that ALL speed 6 engines will need a rebuild sooner or later??

Does anyone know a Speed 6 that has hit the 50k mark without a rebuild?

Too many doom and gloom threads, would be interesting to see some posts from owners who have the original engine running over the 40k mark.

[justinp1]

SXS said:

GreenV8S said: These paint a rather worrying picture (in particular some of the repeat failures), but we are only seeing the failures. This doesn't tell us how many of the hundreds/thousands of engines sold have been faultless. Do you have any indication of the percentage failure rate? I dont think we'll ever know the percentage that are good and the percentage that failed. I think its safe to assume, the engines have got better. But general consensus seems to be that ALL speed 6 engines will need a rebuild sooner or later?? Does anyone know a Speed 6 that has hit the 50k mark without a rebuild? Too many doom and gloom threads, would be interesting to see some posts from owners who have the original engine running over the 40k mark.

My 2000/X Tuscan had 27k on it when I sold it, with no rebuild. I remember from JSG's graph that would have been the highest mileage without a rebuild at that time.

There was a Tuscan with 60k on it sold a year ago without rebuild, but that seemed to be one of the very early ones and a bit of a freak occurance as I have not heard anything like that since.