Discussion
Thanks Nelly 1-most kind. Nice to have some real data
Ash- Even allowing for operator error and massaging the dyno software I don't beleive the Speed Six performance is bollox. As Austec have a good rep and assuming a 10% error due to inexperience or kindness on the operators part thats still closer to the claim on the tin than certain V8's I have heard of.
Ash- Even allowing for operator error and massaging the dyno software I don't beleive the Speed Six performance is bollox. As Austec have a good rep and assuming a 10% error due to inexperience or kindness on the operators part thats still closer to the claim on the tin than certain V8's I have heard of.
Theoretically, I am not an expert on engines. I know a bit about science though. One thing I know is it is bad science to have an idea of what you expect whilst taking readings and setting up a fair experiment. For example, if the first reading you took was 200.4 bhp for a 200bhp engine, some might say it confirms what you thought. However if you were to set up the experiment again slightly differently, or even in exactly the same way that reading may just be one out of say 184.3, 196.5, 193.2 etc and just because the 200.4 was what we expected, the most scientific way would be to take an average of the different ways of setting the equipment up. In this case the direct comparision would be to use different machinery, although this may be costly!
Another science factor is that psychologically we like to hear the right results and this often outweighs our scepticism. There has been many people shouting that GCSE and A level exams are getting easier and wondering why...
The answer is the schools can now choose which exam board they use for each subject. So, if the French results were up on last year and some people got higher grades than expected, the new exam board must be 'better' than the old one mustn't it!?
Put in simple terms if I took my Tuscan in after spending the week tuning it and got 290bhp I would be very unhappy with the BS result. If I took it there and got 390bhp, I would be well chuffed and bring it back again after I had fiddled some more!
Which rolling road gets more business?
Disclaimer: I make no comment to whether this has any bearing to any results on here. I am not even pretending to know because I dont. This is just food for thought, discussion, flaming me and Ash (SXS) to have a quiet smile over the fact that I would think 390bhp would be 'good'
Looking forward to seeing the rolling road printout for your project!!!
Another science factor is that psychologically we like to hear the right results and this often outweighs our scepticism. There has been many people shouting that GCSE and A level exams are getting easier and wondering why...
The answer is the schools can now choose which exam board they use for each subject. So, if the French results were up on last year and some people got higher grades than expected, the new exam board must be 'better' than the old one mustn't it!?
Put in simple terms if I took my Tuscan in after spending the week tuning it and got 290bhp I would be very unhappy with the BS result. If I took it there and got 390bhp, I would be well chuffed and bring it back again after I had fiddled some more!
Which rolling road gets more business?
Disclaimer: I make no comment to whether this has any bearing to any results on here. I am not even pretending to know because I dont. This is just food for thought, discussion, flaming me and Ash (SXS) to have a quiet smile over the fact that I would think 390bhp would be 'good'
Looking forward to seeing the rolling road printout for your project!!!
sideways mostly said:
Thanks Nelly 1-most kind. Nice to have some real data
Ash- Even allowing for operator error and massaging the dyno software I don't beleive the Speed Six performance is bollox. As Austec have a good rep and assuming a 10% error due to inexperience or kindness on the operators part thats still closer to the claim on the tin than certain V8's I have heard of.
Huh? When did I say the Speed 6 dyno readings are bollox???
You're reading in a different langauge!
I was on about the Speed 12! GO BACK AND READ PROPERLY!
Ash I read very well thanks-all the lines and between them as well.
To begin with the thread is headed Theoretically -its was meant to be a fun idea to speculate on where in an ideal world TVR might go. It was not meant to be yet another open door to slag off Speed 12's or Speed 6's.
I am not naive-I am well aware that dyno readings can be very accurate or complete crap depending on skill,intention,air pressure, temperature,
height above sea level,calibration,software type and version number,rate of wear of the system used and don't need reminding of this.
The thread is about what fun it would be if TVR extended themseleves and started developing the Speed 6 positively. If you have anything to contribute to how the Speed 6 might be developed to gain even more power and how the Speed 12 might be brought to fruition please contribute to this thread. If not -please don't. Its a huge
bore to have every positive Speed 6 or 12 thread diluted by cynicism every time.
If you think I am a whinging blind Speed 6 defender of the faith type then good on you-you are as myopic as I am.
In fact I am a real V8 and Speed 6 and 12 enthusiast- you may be as well but frankly it doen't come across like that.
Communication is the art of managing the impression that people receive- and you com across to me as essentially Speed 6 negative and a V8 advocate.
don't shoot me if you are not-its the impression I get.
Thank you for reading so far.
How's the 1000 bhp V8 by the way-I am genuinely interested and wish you evry success.no bollox-I hope you get a fantastic result!
To begin with the thread is headed Theoretically -its was meant to be a fun idea to speculate on where in an ideal world TVR might go. It was not meant to be yet another open door to slag off Speed 12's or Speed 6's.
I am not naive-I am well aware that dyno readings can be very accurate or complete crap depending on skill,intention,air pressure, temperature,
height above sea level,calibration,software type and version number,rate of wear of the system used and don't need reminding of this.
The thread is about what fun it would be if TVR extended themseleves and started developing the Speed 6 positively. If you have anything to contribute to how the Speed 6 might be developed to gain even more power and how the Speed 12 might be brought to fruition please contribute to this thread. If not -please don't. Its a huge
bore to have every positive Speed 6 or 12 thread diluted by cynicism every time. If you think I am a whinging blind Speed 6 defender of the faith type then good on you-you are as myopic as I am.
In fact I am a real V8 and Speed 6 and 12 enthusiast- you may be as well but frankly it doen't come across like that.
Communication is the art of managing the impression that people receive- and you com across to me as essentially Speed 6 negative and a V8 advocate.
don't shoot me if you are not-its the impression I get.
Thank you for reading so far.
How's the 1000 bhp V8 by the way-I am genuinely interested and wish you evry success.no bollox-I hope you get a fantastic result!
SXS said:
sideways mostly said:
The thread is about what fun it would be if TVR extended themseleves and started developing the Speed 6 positively. If you have anything to contribute to how the Speed 6 might be developed to gain even more power and how the Speed 12 might be brought to fruition please contribute to this thread. If not -please don't. Its a huge
Me a cynic? too right, so feck off.
And contribute? what are you bloody on about? I'll contribute words of wisdom or shite when I feel like it. If you wanna tell me otherwise, then go for it, bleed your emotional heart out.
TeeVeeRrr is notoriously known for BULLSHIT figures. Period.
The Speed 12 has NEVER been independantly proven. Period.
The Speed 6 is a bloody good engine, even with its flaws. Period.
Where the cynicism in that?????!!!!
As for rolling roads, I've been down those roads one too many times to not give a toss anymore, hub it or feck it, thats my piece of wisdom.
Yup, the Phoenix is coming along nicely, just a few more months to go
sideways_always - If the world was run by hitler, then I'll probably be crapping myself giving my ounce or two. But thankgod it aint, my views stick like shit sticks to ones foot. If you cant toss it off, feckin clean it off.
Come down to the Ace Cafe meet on the 7th of October, I'll make an effort to squeeze more shite out of my injectors
Btw, which bit of the crap you spit out was 'contributing' to this thread?Just feckin wind ash up huh? lol... you're bloody good at it.
Time to headbutt my monitor again
Lets make it simple. I start a thread on developing the Speed 12. Your contribution is to say the TVR Speed 12 performance fugures were questionable. Fair enough in my view IF the thread was about how questionable the Speed 12 figure are. But that was not the topic I wanted to address-so I have no problems at all in pointing this out to you.
I really didn't start this thread with the intension of winding you up-I don't have the inclination or the time.
Happy to meet you on the 7th at the Ace-I live around the corner in Ealing and have been meaning to drop in for ages.
I really do want to see your Cerb as well.
In the mean time-and just to show I am not the type to whinge behind your back to the moderator which I understand you don't like- drop the anger and read the header to the thread. Its very tiresome to start a positive thread and experince it degenerate into a personal duel. I beleive it depresses others as well.
>> Edited by sideways mostly on Thursday 29th September 20:14
sideways mostly said:
.....if the Thyphon is back in the running as seems possible perhaps with its supercharged Speed 6 ,if it really does make it to the real world,we need a new TVR power target.
What do you think a supercharged speed 12 would deliver.
A) 1200 bhp?
B) 1600 bhp?
C)A bucket of smoking shrapnel?
I lost it earlier on, I'm sorry. Not in my best moods tonight.
But I'll contribute some wisdom here.
The Speed 6 in supercharged form, a brilliant idea, one which was discussed in-depth over on the main gossip channel not too long ago.
But there is one problem, if TVR dont sort their crank balancing problems out and their head flaws out, strapping a supercharger on the engine will be like giving customers a ticking time bomb, I'm sure they're well aware of this. Whence, it will be absolutely ages before we see an FI speed 6 leave the factory for general consumption.
The Speed 12? The engine as it is, is a very weak engine, has many flaws. The engine would need some serious development work to make it stable in its current form before you can even think of strapping a blower on to it.
Turbocharging? You can forget this one before you even start. Turbocharging an engine requires some serious bay work, those headers need very good clearance from the wells, and the way these engines get hot as standard, with turbos you'll be driving a bonfire. Glass-fibre is a bloody good heat insulator. TVR would need to rethink their design/material strategy before thinking of turbo-charging.
Anyway, I'm sorry for before, it was uncalled for.
But I honestly wasnt being cynical, I was merely explaining that the '800' hp figure is cloud 9 talk, I know a fair bit about the speed 12 engine from people who were involved with the design and development, and if they cant recall figures in the region of 800 on an engine dyno, I dont know how TVR would have managed that figure after strapping all the ancillaries on.
Reality sucks, sorry for coming across as a cynic, I was only trying to mean well.
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