Rebuild Advice?
Discussion
I've been advised to consider bottom end upgrades as well by Topcats.
So I'll wait on the Autocraft diagnosis when she goes down on the 5th November. I don't mind how long it takes - it's the winter after all - I love the car, so I'm in it for the long term. Thanks for all the emails guys..I know we're doing the right thing here.
Cheers
Al
So I'll wait on the Autocraft diagnosis when she goes down on the 5th November. I don't mind how long it takes - it's the winter after all - I love the car, so I'm in it for the long term. Thanks for all the emails guys..I know we're doing the right thing here.
Cheers
Al
It varies, its all dependant on how much work is required. Once an engine is stripped open, you can raise many points that need addressing, and thats why there's never a flat fee as such, can be anything from 4k upwards I believe.
The craft guys can do ferrari rebuilds too, one of their techs has a background in fezza's, be it F1 but still, at a cost that would scare ferrari off! its called realistic labour and parts, no taxes above and beyond the standard VAT.
The craft guys can do ferrari rebuilds too, one of their techs has a background in fezza's, be it F1 but still, at a cost that would scare ferrari off! its called realistic labour and parts, no taxes above and beyond the standard VAT.
Ade355 said:
Thanks for the reply. I dont want to hijack the thread with this subject, but Im interested to hear their labour rates for comparison if you know them. I pay 90 per hour inclusive of VAT, which seems to be a 'typical' Ferrari specialist rate from what I can see.
Thanks
The labour rates around 45 quid tops I think, it depends, on a big job, dave can cut good prices, its all about how small or big a job is, the bigger the job, the more flexible dave can be. But you'll never be paying anything above and beyond what keeps the books in order, give dave at tvrcraft a ring and get a quote.
SXS said:
It varies, its all dependant on how much work is required. Once an engine is stripped open, you can raise many points that need addressing, and thats why there's never a flat fee as such, can be anything from 4k upwards I believe.
The craft guys can do ferrari rebuilds too, one of their techs has a background in fezza's, be it F1 but still, at a cost that would scare ferrari off! its called realistic labour and parts, no taxes above and beyond the standard VAT.
I am looking at buying a Tuscan and I feel more and more that I will just get the cheapest 2002-ish one I can (i.e, about £18k) and just send it straight to Autocraft to get the melling fix, lighter pistons, balancing, etc. I'd rather pay £28k in total and have a rebuilt car that will work than pay £28k for a newer car and have it go bang...I'd probably have them install a Racelogic TC unit and Ohlins shocks while the car was in bits just to save a bit on labour costs, too. I intend the car to be with me a long time and it will get used most days, so I am not shy of spending out on the right things in order to make the car reliable and driveable.
cybertrophic said:
I am looking at buying a Tuscan and I feel more and more that I will just get the cheapest 2002-ish one I can (i.e, about £18k) and just send it straight to Autocraft to get the melling fix, lighter pistons, balancing, etc. I'd rather pay £28k in total and have a rebuilt car that will work than pay £28k for a newer car and have it go bang...I'd probably have them install a Racelogic TC unit and Ohlins shocks while the car was in bits just to save a bit on labour costs, too. I intend the car to be with me a long time and it will get used most days, so I am not shy of spending out on the right things in order to make the car reliable and driveable.
Sound reasoning in my opinion if your mind is set and you really DO want one of these cars.
As you may have read elsewhere mine is in with TVRCraft now, getting their full top and bottom end treatment. If you do go the TVRCraft route be prepared for the car to be off the road for an extended period whilst the mods are being carried out. Its not a drive in and out fast track program. There are other repair centres out there, but there has been little reported to suggest that anyone other than TVRCraft are going any further than valves, followers and guides. The cynic in me would say that perhaps thats where it stops.....however....
Rgds
G
Apparently... A ford small block mustang engine does fit.
ie if you find a perfect car, but with the engine needing a rebuild, trade the car is worth very little.
mustang engine is a few grand (400bhp tunable to 600)
Very tempting idea.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 18th November 10:47
ie if you find a perfect car, but with the engine needing a rebuild, trade the car is worth very little.
mustang engine is a few grand (400bhp tunable to 600)
Very tempting idea.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 18th November 10:47
yzf1070 said:
Sound reasoning in my opinion if your mind is set and you really DO want one of these cars.
As you may have read elsewhere mine is in with TVRCraft now, getting their full top and bottom end treatment. If you do go the TVRCraft route be prepared for the car to be off the road for an extended period whilst the mods are being carried out. Its not a drive in and out fast track program. There are other repair centres out there, but there has been little reported to suggest that anyone other than TVRCraft are going any further than valves, followers and guides. The cynic in me would say that perhaps thats where it stops.....however....
Rgds
G
Well, it's a toss-up between the Tuscan and another Fezza 456 and I am more tempted by the Tuscan. The 456 is lovely, but it is a bit soulless because it is so competent, if you see what I mean. Beautiful, makes a great noise, drives well and will go for longer without problems, but somehow just not as exciting...Oh, and a secondhand one starts around £30-40000, so I can get the tuscan and sort it for the same cost and have a more exciting car that is newer, too. Both cars are that rarity - not a single bad angle on them, however.
cybertrophic said:
Well, it's a toss-up between the Tuscan and another Fezza 456 and I am more tempted by the Tuscan. The 456 is lovely, but it is a bit soulless because it is so competent, if you see what I mean. Beautiful, makes a great noise, drives well and will go for longer without problems, but somehow just not as exciting...Oh, and a secondhand one starts around £30-40000, so I can get the tuscan and sort it for the same cost and have a more exciting car that is newer, too. Both cars are that rarity - not a single bad angle on them, however.
Not to mention the cost of a replacement engine if the one in the Fezza goes bang... more than the cost of a brand new Tuscan if I remember rightly...
J_S_G said:
Well, it's a toss-up between the Tuscan and another Fezza 456 and I am more tempted by the Tuscan. The 456 is lovely, but it is a bit soulless because it is so competent, if you see what I mean. Beautiful, makes a great noise, drives well and will go for longer without problems, but somehow just not as exciting...Oh, and a secondhand one starts around £30-40000, so I can get the tuscan and sort it for the same cost and have a more exciting car that is newer, too. Both cars are that rarity - not a single bad angle on them, however.
Not to mention the cost of a replacement engine if the one in the Fezza goes bang... more than the cost of a brand new Tuscan if I remember rightly...
If I remember correctly it's somewhere in the £40-50,000 mark, but that's for the whole thing as a replacement - you'd be *very* unlucky to have to buy one of those, though.
cybertrophic said:
If I remember correctly it's somewhere in the £40-50,000 mark, but that's for the whole thing as a replacement - you'd be *very* unlucky to have to buy one of those, though.
Apparently I'd have been very unlucky to have needed an S6 rebuild, too. Hmmm...
Agree with Gazzab - you're opening yourself up to potentially big bills regardless. Personally just think the Ferrari's got the potential to sting a whole lot more if the worst happens!
J_S_G said:
If I remember correctly it's somewhere in the £40-50,000 mark, but that's for the whole thing as a replacement - you'd be *very* unlucky to have to buy one of those, though.
Apparently I'd have been very unlucky to have needed an S6 rebuild, too. Hmmm...
Agree with Gazzab - you're opening yourself up to potentially big bills regardless. Personally just think the Ferrari's got the potential to sting a whole lot more if the worst happens!
Well, the 456 I had was flawless and there are undoubtedly more 456's with high mileage than Speed Six cars, but the main thing is that Ferrari are not unwilling to fix things if they get them wrong - they have done free fixes for faults when discovered, rather than waiting for a customer to have to buy a new engine and just fixing it at customer cost - that's the big difference with TVR. Hence my intention to get the cheapest Tuscan I can find and just get the melling fix/forged pistons/Ohlins shocks/Racelogic switchable traction control fitted. That way I spend the same as I would for a newer (i.e 2002/2003) Tuscan and I have at least some peace of mind. Oh, and a better car ;-)
cybertrophic said:
If I remember correctly it's somewhere in the £40-50,000 mark, but that's for the whole thing as a replacement - you'd be *very* unlucky to have to buy one of those, though.
Apparently I'd have been very unlucky to have needed an S6 rebuild, too. Hmmm...
Agree with Gazzab - you're opening yourself up to potentially big bills regardless. Personally just think the Ferrari's got the potential to sting a whole lot more if the worst happens!
Well, the 456 I had was flawless and there are undoubtedly more 456's with high mileage than Speed Six cars, but the main thing is that Ferrari are not unwilling to fix things if they get them wrong - they have done free fixes for faults when discovered, rather than waiting for a customer to have to buy a new engine and just fixing it at customer cost - that's the big difference with TVR. Hence my intention to get the cheapest Tuscan I can find and just get the melling fix/forged pistons/Ohlins shocks/Racelogic switchable traction control fitted. That way I spend the same as I would for a newer (i.e 2002/2003) Tuscan and I have at least some peace of mind. Oh, and a better car ;-)
Just wanted to comment on my comment about Ferrari being willing to fix flaws with recalls - I have a sneaking suspicion that Ferrari realise that people spending £100k on a car are giving them a *lot* of money and thus feel a responsibility not only to their heritage/reputation, but also to the people who are buying the cars. TVR seem to feel that as they are charging *only* £40-50,000 that it gives them the right to offlay responsibility for rectifying built-in flaws to the customer. You would expect Ford, or Toyota, to recall cars and fix them if a potentially dangerous flaw was found (like, for example, the possibility of the engine detonating, seizing solid and jamming the rear wheels at speed due to, let's say valvetrain components that are made shoddily), you would also expect the same of a supercar manufacturer like Pagani or Lamorghini, but yet there are owners on these forums who are quite happy to pay for engine rebuilds that should not be required. They often quote the 100BHP per Litre output as a reason for the engine to be brittle, but that is simply bullsh*t - there are many cars that can do those sorts of figures and don't implode after 6,000 Miles - Supras actually put out around 320BHp, as do Skylines and the Honda NSX (the 280BHP figures are white lies by the manufacturers to avoid a bizarre and punitive BHP-related tax in Japan), all of them would sail past 60,000 without a rebuild (more like 100,000 with servicing). BMW's last-generation M3 was putting out 333Bhp @ 7900RPM from a 3.2 Litre straight six, so 350Bhp from a 3.6 Litre at around 8000RPM is not so amazing when you start looking at it rationally. I don't hate the Speed Six - I love it, but only on the proviso it is re-manufactured to the correct spec with the correct parts. I'd love to have a Tuscan with an engine that didn't threaten to break catastrophically anytime from 0 to 12,000 Miles, as then I could buy one without feeling that maybe I should have got an M3 or 911 and peace of mind. I'll buy one anyway, but then I intend to re-engineer the engine so it is bullet-proof. That's purely based on the fact I love the engine and the look of the car. If I wasn't so passionate about them, I'd never buy a Speed Six TVR unless TVR does the right thing by its customers and sorts the issues properly, rather than papering over the cracks at customers' expense....
J_S_G said:
Agree with Gazzab - you're opening yourself up to potentially big bills regardless. Personally just think the Ferrari's got the potential to sting a whole lot more if the worst happens!
Before my Tuscan i had an eighties Ferrari with a V12 engine. The cost of maintenance was ASTRONOMICAL. Also, the very thought of the head gasket blowing (which IS common) forced me to sell because even independants are quoting 10k for a rebuild. Also, my mechanic in Camberley had a Ferrari 400i V12 in his workshop for SIX MONTHS because he couldn't get a replacement timing chain.
Listen, i'm not going to defend the S6, you would have to be very blind to do so, BUT the Tuscan is an exotic, and a cheap one at that. If you really want high cost repairs, unsympathetic dealers (you own it so you must be able to afford it) and a lack of parts availability then buy an old Ferrari.
Thanks, but i'll stick to my Tuscan. S6 or not it has far more bang for your buck, AND believe it or not, less and cheaper problems. The reality is that you CANNOT own ANY exotic car without the potential for a big bill.
how old are the ferraris you mention compare dwith the tuscans with problems, the oldest tusacn is nearly 6 years up to 200March 05 cars with problems prior to 3 year warranty...
I expect any 10 year old or older 'exotic' car to have issues and parts supply, but not a 1-4 year old car currently in production.
B
I expect any 10 year old or older 'exotic' car to have issues and parts supply, but not a 1-4 year old car currently in production.
B
Hi Barry, you have a point of course. My Ferrari was 1982. However, the comparrison is really one of current second hand purchase values. ie. 10k to 25k. There is great value out there just now (have you read the latest Classic Car mag yet? there is a good feature on this very subject) BUT i think we should all be aware that big boys toys can have big boys bills whether they are TVR's, Ferraris, Porkers or anything else.
As for the Ferrari V12 engine, the basic block has been in use since around 1950. Derivatives have been in production upto very recent times and parts should not be an issue BUT THEY ARE. Also, rebuild costs are higher, dealerships are an arrogant pain and independant mechanics rare.
Again, i do not defend the S6 or TVR's attitude BUT they are not the only ones and IMHO the availability of independants and the competition that this generates means we actually get CHEAP exotic ownership I think this is lost on these threads sometimes.
As for the Ferrari V12 engine, the basic block has been in use since around 1950. Derivatives have been in production upto very recent times and parts should not be an issue BUT THEY ARE. Also, rebuild costs are higher, dealerships are an arrogant pain and independant mechanics rare.
Again, i do not defend the S6 or TVR's attitude BUT they are not the only ones and IMHO the availability of independants and the competition that this generates means we actually get CHEAP exotic ownership I think this is lost on these threads sometimes.
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