newbie looking at a tuscan with 2 rebuilds advice pleae!!!!
Discussion
hi guys,
I am looking at buying a 4.0 tuscan (2000 w) with 30k on the clock which has already had two rebuilds. I believe that buying a car that has been rebuilt is no bad thing but is there any evidence that rebuit cars will be more reliable? ie are the inherent faults ironed out or are multipal rebuilds the norm rather thaN just bad luck?
I am looking at buying a 4.0 tuscan (2000 w) with 30k on the clock which has already had two rebuilds. I believe that buying a car that has been rebuilt is no bad thing but is there any evidence that rebuit cars will be more reliable? ie are the inherent faults ironed out or are multipal rebuilds the norm rather thaN just bad luck?
Hi there,
I bought an X reg Tuscan in March with 31k on the clock.
It had full history, but the previous owner was unware of a rebuild, although a logbook stamp at 15k from Blackpool TVR made me think it was possible.
Anyway I took a risk, knowing I was paying bottom price, and put the rest of my budget in a high interest account.
Now at 34.5k the cam followers are worn and it's gone to Autocraft for a re-designed head and superior components and lightweight pistons for the bottom end, as endorsed by Al Melling the engines original designer. It will take 10 weeks and cost 11.5k inc VAT. But any other rebuild will just be like for like and in my opinion (and I'm no engineer) just be open to the same problems again. This rebuild option has only been open to TVR owners for the past 6 weeks. If it works then I can see a situation in the future where cars without an Autocraft re-engineered engine will be very hard to sell or at least worth a lot less. That's why I'm prepared to pay the money. If you're looking to buy an early car to run on a budget....don't. If you're looking to by an early car to avoid depreciation and you cant afford a new one with the 36mth guarantee, then I would recommend going the Autocraft route. As for the two rebuilds the car you are talking about has had....well I've heard of rebuilds going bang within 1000 miles of the job being completed because the fundamental engineering flaws have not been addressed. There's a lot written on this site about all this. Have a read, and take a gamble knowing your options. Either way. there's no other car like it!! Good luck.
Al.
I bought an X reg Tuscan in March with 31k on the clock.
It had full history, but the previous owner was unware of a rebuild, although a logbook stamp at 15k from Blackpool TVR made me think it was possible.
Anyway I took a risk, knowing I was paying bottom price, and put the rest of my budget in a high interest account.
Now at 34.5k the cam followers are worn and it's gone to Autocraft for a re-designed head and superior components and lightweight pistons for the bottom end, as endorsed by Al Melling the engines original designer. It will take 10 weeks and cost 11.5k inc VAT. But any other rebuild will just be like for like and in my opinion (and I'm no engineer) just be open to the same problems again. This rebuild option has only been open to TVR owners for the past 6 weeks. If it works then I can see a situation in the future where cars without an Autocraft re-engineered engine will be very hard to sell or at least worth a lot less. That's why I'm prepared to pay the money. If you're looking to buy an early car to run on a budget....don't. If you're looking to by an early car to avoid depreciation and you cant afford a new one with the 36mth guarantee, then I would recommend going the Autocraft route. As for the two rebuilds the car you are talking about has had....well I've heard of rebuilds going bang within 1000 miles of the job being completed because the fundamental engineering flaws have not been addressed. There's a lot written on this site about all this. Have a read, and take a gamble knowing your options. Either way. there's no other car like it!! Good luck.
Al.
Thanks foe the reply. 11.5k is a scary proposition even if it does cure the problems. the car i am looking at is 17k it seems i could spend another 10k on a newer tus or a tam/t350 and have no further peace of mind.
Have tvr addressed the issues on these newer cars? its appauling that you can spend 5k on a rebuild just to fit the same parts with the same inherant design faults.
Have tvr addressed the issues on these newer cars? its appauling that you can spend 5k on a rebuild just to fit the same parts with the same inherant design faults.
The quality on the components in the newer TVRs seems to be better, but new cars are still going bang even with the 36mth guarantee.
There's a T350 down at Craft at the moment. I've never driven my Tuscan close to the 7500rpm capability, but if you do then the pressures on certain parts of the TVR stock engine will eventually cause component failure due to insufficient oil feeds in the head and pistons that are too heavy in the bottom end, apparently. If however you drive more cautiously the engine will last longer. Sadly the wear in the head puts metal swarf into the engine so it inevitably gets expensive. TVR cannot admit any design flaws/faults even if they do exist because it opens them up to mass legal action. There's a lot been written on here about the issues - find out exactly what has been rebuilt, and then decide if the risk is worth it. The only peace of mind really is to buy new and get the guarantee, but then deal with the depreciation and the chance that it will still go bang...so not really much peace of mind! Or buy cheap and budget for the Craft top end or total rebuild.
Al
There's a T350 down at Craft at the moment. I've never driven my Tuscan close to the 7500rpm capability, but if you do then the pressures on certain parts of the TVR stock engine will eventually cause component failure due to insufficient oil feeds in the head and pistons that are too heavy in the bottom end, apparently. If however you drive more cautiously the engine will last longer. Sadly the wear in the head puts metal swarf into the engine so it inevitably gets expensive. TVR cannot admit any design flaws/faults even if they do exist because it opens them up to mass legal action. There's a lot been written on here about the issues - find out exactly what has been rebuilt, and then decide if the risk is worth it. The only peace of mind really is to buy new and get the guarantee, but then deal with the depreciation and the chance that it will still go bang...so not really much peace of mind! Or buy cheap and budget for the Craft top end or total rebuild.
Al
All this has been discussed in detail on this site previously.
However, the view expressed on the craft solution is very one sided.
OK, so the mods were made in conjunction with Al Melling.
Have they been proven? Run for 12k miles? A guaranteed fix for 3 years?
On the flip side, are we sure exactly what, if anything, has been changed in the TVR '04-'05 engines?
Are we sure the engine hasn't been improved to an extent that makes a 11k engine fix unnecessary?
My car has done 10k miles in 6 months, driven relatively hard and never missed a beat. Will it do the same thing another 5 times over? Who knows, but I'm not 100% sure the craft solution would do it either!
Would you prefer a £31k high mileage X reg Tuscan or a '05 t350? I know what I'd do, though each to their own!
>> Edited by _deejay_ on Sunday 6th November 10:27
However, the view expressed on the craft solution is very one sided.
OK, so the mods were made in conjunction with Al Melling.
Have they been proven? Run for 12k miles? A guaranteed fix for 3 years?
On the flip side, are we sure exactly what, if anything, has been changed in the TVR '04-'05 engines?
Are we sure the engine hasn't been improved to an extent that makes a 11k engine fix unnecessary?
My car has done 10k miles in 6 months, driven relatively hard and never missed a beat. Will it do the same thing another 5 times over? Who knows, but I'm not 100% sure the craft solution would do it either!
Would you prefer a £31k high mileage X reg Tuscan or a '05 t350? I know what I'd do, though each to their own!
>> Edited by _deejay_ on Sunday 6th November 10:27
"Would you prefer a £31k high mileage X reg Tuscan or a '05 t350?"
...slight difference in price...I fear between the two options, even with the Autocraft conversion...
The Mk 1 Tuscan in my opinion is a far better looking car than the chop-arsed T350, so I'd rather take the early Tuscan and make it reliable.
Like you say, each to his own. :-)
...slight difference in price...I fear between the two options, even with the Autocraft conversion...
The Mk 1 Tuscan in my opinion is a far better looking car than the chop-arsed T350, so I'd rather take the early Tuscan and make it reliable.
Like you say, each to his own. :-)
[quote=msd]Thanks foe the reply. 11.5k is a scary proposition even if it does cure the problems.
I would buy a newer tuscan, with the new warranty, dont forget the tvr craft rebuilds have not been tested yet,
£17000 plus say £10,000 for a rebuild you will get a 2003/4 tuscan for that money Plus tvrs own warranty.
I would buy a newer tuscan, with the new warranty, dont forget the tvr craft rebuilds have not been tested yet,
£17000 plus say £10,000 for a rebuild you will get a 2003/4 tuscan for that money Plus tvrs own warranty.
plasticman said:
I think you will find the t350`s engine problems were not the fault of TVR or any of their components.
Is there something I dont know. As far as I am aware TVR commissioned the components and put them together. Is there another factor?
Not trying to make a fuss, I am genuinely interested!
"Thanks foe the reply. 11.5k is a scary proposition even if it does cure the problems.
I would buy a newer tuscan, with the new warranty, dont forget the tvr craft rebuilds have not been tested yet,
£17000 plus say £10,000 for a rebuild you will get a 2003/4 tuscan for that money Plus tvrs own warranty."
A newer Tuscan will still have the inherent design flaws in the engine. When the designer himself says there are big issues to be resolved, I know who I'd rather listen to, being a designer myself. Although the Craft rebuilds have not been tested, the modifications they are making can be explained simply with pen and paper and you don't have to be an engineer to understand why they will make the Speed six prone to less vibration and wear internally. I'm not mechanically minded but it was easy for me to understand. I know TVR are offering a warranty, but I don't want my car off the road again, sitting waiting to be fixed. The Craft work comes with a 12,000 mile/12 month warranty which I believe is extendable. I know it's an awful lot of money, but I feel I can justify it as I'm not replacing like with like and waiting for the inevitable to happen again. The issues with the engine are not solely in the top end either as many believe, hence why a few of us are opting to replace pistons etc with lighter versions as advised by Al Melling. Only time will tell, but I'm sure Dave at Craft will explain the basics like he did to me and the problems the S6 engine could face will become horribly clear, especially if you try and use it to it's potential. But like you say only time will tell. All I would say is that Craft have plowed their money and reputation into this and their communication is in a different league to TVRs.
Al.
Sorry about the delay Justinp1 , I am only jalking about that particular car . The sump was damaged and needed replacing .The mechanic that did the work , which involves removing the drive chains for cams etc., did not correctly reassemble it and I believe there was valve to piston contact , David
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