Racing Green - buckets anyone?
Discussion
TVR_owner said:
PascalBuyens said:
braders said:
Pascal hope you dont mind me asking but what sort of cost would i be looking at for this engine
Cheers
Don't mind at all, with all the improvements I asked, I am looking at around 11k... so far Cheers
Do RG want all their "development" costs back from the first engine?? Sorry but I'm afraid I'd be telling where to stick their 11K (+ VAT no doubt).
Might sound frightening the amount, but if you look at the quote from TVR Power, I was at 11k alone for the engine rebuild. And yes, Power did get told to stuff it...
Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 27th August 16:48
Is 11k that expensive for an engine these days? .. I know someone who's just been quoted 8k to rebuild a blinking 4 pot cossie engine and there's literally thousands of those about and all the development was effectively done 2 decades ago! There's obviously some big IFs in all this stuff but IF it's a thorough redesign and IF it works and IF it delivers what's promised then at the side of the cossie it looks value for money.
PascalBuyens said:
TVR_owner said:
PascalBuyens said:
braders said:
Pascal hope you dont mind me asking but what sort of cost would i be looking at for this engine
Cheers
Don't mind at all, with all the improvements I asked, I am looking at around 11k... so far Cheers
Do RG want all their "development" costs back from the first engine?? Sorry but I'm afraid I'd be telling where to stick their 11K (+ VAT no doubt).
Might sound frightening the amount, but if you look at the quote from TVR Power, I was at 11k alone for the engine rebuild. And yes, Power did get told to stuff it...
Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 27th August 16:48
Are you not concerned about dissimilar metal corrosion between the aluminium cylinder head and the 22ct gold manifold
Forgive me if I sound a little off with the RG criticism, but it's got we've been here before written all over it - and I'm normally optimistic...
Hope its not so in this case.
Edited by TVR_owner on Wednesday 27th August 17:02
TVR_owner said:
PascalBuyens said:
TVR_owner said:
PascalBuyens said:
braders said:
Pascal hope you dont mind me asking but what sort of cost would i be looking at for this engine
Cheers
Don't mind at all, with all the improvements I asked, I am looking at around 11k... so far Cheers
Do RG want all their "development" costs back from the first engine?? Sorry but I'm afraid I'd be telling where to stick their 11K (+ VAT no doubt).
Might sound frightening the amount, but if you look at the quote from TVR Power, I was at 11k alone for the engine rebuild. And yes, Power did get told to stuff it...
Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 27th August 16:48
Are you not concerned about dissimilar metal corrosion between the aluminium cylinder head and the 22ct gold manifold
Forgive me if I sound a little off with the RG criticism, but it's got we've been here before written all over it - and I'm normally optimistic...
Hope its not so in this case.
Edited by TVR_owner on Wednesday 27th August 17:02
There are a hell of a lot of grumpy old gits on this forum now. It just seems like sour grapes.
In terms of the 'here we go again' comments, RG have never been in this situation before. But they do have a lot of experience, and a first class reputation. Also, they have been totally honest with their customers.
To cap it off, the proof is in the pudding; drive the car with the engine in, talk to the guys at RG face to face THEN make a decision as to whether or not it is a sound proposition.
As for the price; yep, it is steep. But you get what you pay for. And with this you are paying for an engine that has been designed to last the distance. But also, as Pascal said, when you break it down (and it's best to once again talk to the guys at RG) you are getting a lot of stuff.
In my case I'll be getting £1500 worth of upgrade from 3.6 to 4.0. superlight fly, new design of gaskets, the trick pistons, different cam, bucket engine, new clutch, new bolts, better valves.....the list goes on.
Try before you buy, THEN comment. So far there is a 100% consistent view amongst the guys that have driven the car.
In terms of the 'here we go again' comments, RG have never been in this situation before. But they do have a lot of experience, and a first class reputation. Also, they have been totally honest with their customers.
To cap it off, the proof is in the pudding; drive the car with the engine in, talk to the guys at RG face to face THEN make a decision as to whether or not it is a sound proposition.
As for the price; yep, it is steep. But you get what you pay for. And with this you are paying for an engine that has been designed to last the distance. But also, as Pascal said, when you break it down (and it's best to once again talk to the guys at RG) you are getting a lot of stuff.
In my case I'll be getting £1500 worth of upgrade from 3.6 to 4.0. superlight fly, new design of gaskets, the trick pistons, different cam, bucket engine, new clutch, new bolts, better valves.....the list goes on.
Try before you buy, THEN comment. So far there is a 100% consistent view amongst the guys that have driven the car.
There is always going to be a certain amount of scepticism about speed 6 developments especially something as new as this. I really hope it works out for Racing Green (I don't know them well but whenever I bought parts for the T350R they were always very helpful and prompt with their delivery). If it does then it's good news for speed 6 owners with another option on the table.
ceejay
ceejay
ceejay said:
There is always going to be a certain amount of scepticism about speed 6 developments especially something as new as this. I really hope it works out for Racing Green (I don't know them well but whenever I bought parts for the T350R they were always very helpful and prompt with their delivery). If it does then it's good news for speed 6 owners with another option on the table.
ceejay
Precisely ceejay
ceejay said:
There is always going to be a certain amount of scepticism about speed 6 developments especially something as new as this. I really hope it works out for Racing Green (I don't know them well but whenever I bought parts for the T350R they were always very helpful and prompt with their delivery). If it does then it's good news for speed 6 owners with another option on the table.
ceejay
+1ceejay
however, (and without wanting to appear to be a grumpy old git myself) (and not with reference to ceejay's post), the proof of the pudding is not in the first drive or the first few miles - it's if the engine is still together in 10, 20 or 30,000 (more maybe) miles - perhaps we should hold off the negatives until we have some idea of the longevity.
There do seem to be several different options out there now but little high-milage exposure for the more recent developments which means that we are all speculating to a greater or lesser extent. Coupled with that, I'm sure that there are people who have a vested interest in one particular solution or another who will extol the virtues of their option whilst questioning the others.
Best of luck to all concerned - I'm hoping that this is a huge step in the right direction
ceejay said:
There is always going to be a certain amount of scepticism about speed 6 developments especially something as new as this. I really hope it works out for Racing Green (I don't know them well but whenever I bought parts for the T350R they were always very helpful and prompt with their delivery). If it does then it's good news for speed 6 owners with another option on the table.
ceejay
Agreed absolutely. Martin and the chaps have been working on this for ages, and I am really hopeful for them that it works out. I do know the development work and thought behind this has been substantial, and I have enjoyed seeing the various stages of the project each time my car has been in. Keen to hear ongoing how the new owners find their engines as they bed down the mileage. ceejay
andyoleary said:
trackcar said:
.. so the bucket carrier fits inside an existing head casting with minimal machining ie a retro fit into an existing casting? amazing if i've interpreted that correctly 
Yeah, as far as I understand it, that's pretty much how it works. I think there is machining needed of the original head but the new casting for the cam/bucket set-up then sits inside it. Looks pretty cool.* - sorry Chris. Luv ya really.
Luca Brazzi said:
Just got back from RG, and had a go with the new engine. The sound from under the bonnet is like a normal sounding eurobox in terms of the mechanical sounds going on. Its quite incredible. My Tuscan sounds like a sewing machine when cold, and really mechanical when warm and revved .... this one doesn't sound like its trying at all.
To drive...its just silky smooth. As others have mentioned, say a big hello to free-revving. The exhaust is a little too noisy to showcase the engineering work that they've done....and I've asked them to put on the quietest exhaust for demonstration purposes, as I'm sure this will really show what a machine they've redesigned. So...sorry to the following drivers who take it out
Don't be, Steve. I said exactly the same thing to them. If you're going to sell an engine upgrade on the fact that it is so refined and smooth, the last thing you want to do is drown it out with a noisy exhaust.To drive...its just silky smooth. As others have mentioned, say a big hello to free-revving
. The exhaust is a little too noisy to showcase the engineering work that they've done....and I've asked them to put on the quietest exhaust for demonstration purposes, as I'm sure this will really show what a machine they've redesigned. So...sorry to the following drivers who take it outI found it very hard to gauge the new engine given the 3k limit, but the lack of "sewing machine" was a huge improvement.
I just wish my recent engine rebuild hadn't been restricted to original spec due to the warranty company - I'd have liked to have taken advantage of these innovations.
Edited by JonRB on Thursday 4th September 12:57
Vixpy1 said:
Had the Racing Green T350 in yesterday for some mapping with the new head. Really impressive power curve and made excellent power for a low compression 4.0. Really pulls to the red line!
Martin said that was happening this week.So are you allowed to publish figures, or do I need to talk to Martin direct? Still trying to find the pennies to buy one of these things!
Chas bought the RG T350 down to the Surrey meet last Thursday and I took a look at the new bucket heads - it sounded much better that the std head. It looked no different - so the milling process and new bucket, shims and cams must be fairly compact and looks very like the original.
I must say - I've said all along that the redesign should always have been bucket and shim - it's a much more reliable system for longevity for high performance engines - only draw back was in maintenence but the space issues in TVRs seems to make maintenance an issue anyway.
Got to wish RG the very best of luck with this - I really really hope it finally proves to be the solution to the S6 engine issues. Time will tell.
Re the price - sure it seems pricey but as a comparison I've managed to spend a similar amount (actually a bit less) on an RV8 with new head designs, H beam rods, forged pistons etc.. so the price is not un-reasonable. Plus the fact that developments like this can cost loads.. probably millions if you are called Ricardo.
RG must be in a tough position with this - if the development does prove successful, then it kind of says the original is at fault and it will not put them in a good light with TVR - if they ever start making cars and need dealers. Then again - the volume here and any pottential profit must be very small.
Only real gain is for us the customers.
I must say - I've said all along that the redesign should always have been bucket and shim - it's a much more reliable system for longevity for high performance engines - only draw back was in maintenence but the space issues in TVRs seems to make maintenance an issue anyway.
Got to wish RG the very best of luck with this - I really really hope it finally proves to be the solution to the S6 engine issues. Time will tell.
Re the price - sure it seems pricey but as a comparison I've managed to spend a similar amount (actually a bit less) on an RV8 with new head designs, H beam rods, forged pistons etc.. so the price is not un-reasonable. Plus the fact that developments like this can cost loads.. probably millions if you are called Ricardo.
RG must be in a tough position with this - if the development does prove successful, then it kind of says the original is at fault and it will not put them in a good light with TVR - if they ever start making cars and need dealers. Then again - the volume here and any pottential profit must be very small.
Only real gain is for us the customers.
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