Discussion
Tvr Power said:
PascalBuyens said:
crimbo said:
650BHP 1100KG car 600BHP/TONNE, whats the secret of how you are going to get that power down?
Sticky rubber for one 
dom
Lee, we are all entitled to an opinion, especially on an open internet forum.
Sure, Dom is well known for his P Taking, but it is done in a “mates in the pub” way.
IMO, the way Both you and Pascal have “bigged up” the FFF blower Sp 6 is rather foolish, as for over a year [ or is that 2? ] down the road there are still no results or conclusions.
It would of been prudent not to “boast” about what this engine might achieve, as again, IMO this just opens you up for some ribbing.
TVR power have a more measured approach, they do the R&D test the product, before telling most people. Dom has been very open about the 4.5, telling all before its been thoroughly tested, but as he says, if it “s
ts itself” he will say so.
The fact that RG have not posted on here as far as I know, means they are also “waiting to see” what the outcome of this Engine is.
I understand that Pascal is excited about the prospect of 600 + BHP, and likes to talk about it, but when you do this, without results, you have to expect some cynicism.
Anyway, as has been said before, isn’t it great we can all have a choice with SP 6 options, its an epic engine
Sure, Dom is well known for his P Taking, but it is done in a “mates in the pub” way.
IMO, the way Both you and Pascal have “bigged up” the FFF blower Sp 6 is rather foolish, as for over a year [ or is that 2? ] down the road there are still no results or conclusions.
It would of been prudent not to “boast” about what this engine might achieve, as again, IMO this just opens you up for some ribbing.
TVR power have a more measured approach, they do the R&D test the product, before telling most people. Dom has been very open about the 4.5, telling all before its been thoroughly tested, but as he says, if it “s
ts itself” he will say so.The fact that RG have not posted on here as far as I know, means they are also “waiting to see” what the outcome of this Engine is.
I understand that Pascal is excited about the prospect of 600 + BHP, and likes to talk about it, but when you do this, without results, you have to expect some cynicism.
Anyway, as has been said before, isn’t it great we can all have a choice with SP 6 options, its an epic engine
Far Eastender said:
Tvr Power said:
PascalBuyens said:
crimbo said:
650BHP 1100KG car 600BHP/TONNE, whats the secret of how you are going to get that power down?
Sticky rubber for one dom
Dom
Sure, we are all entitled to an opinion - especially on a public forum.An this is simply my opinion.
I can't be the only one that has noticed, however, that Dom has hijacked this thread and all his posts are of a derogatory nature towards both RG and RG's products. Find me one thing which truly supports RG's proposed developments. The only time that he did anything of this nature was when I pointed out earlier that he is continual berating what RG are doing.
If his product is that good, then why is he bothering to comment so vociferously? Just let the owners and drivers add their comments. And as Graham said, this thread is about Pascal's car. NOT about any TVR Power development. This thread is about a company trying to do something totally different. What Dom is doing is obviously effective, but it is not of the same order of magnitude as RG. So this is like an R&D thread.
So why dismiss everything all the time? And as for "blokes down the pub", that ribbing really doesn't add any value.
Maybe it's me; maybe I'm of an age. But in my profession I would never bad mouth in any way a competitor. It simply is not professional. Although sadly, the whole country from industry through to sport through to politics seem to be doing that these days.
Dom may have a really good product, but I do not think that he is acting in a reasonable and professional manner on here and that alone would put me off wanting to do business if I were still in the market for a rebuild.
Dom now has a 4.5 build; good stuff. Good luck. But do we need to hear about it on here as dig at RG?
And why should RG bother to post on here? There is no need for them to do so. Their specific Super Charged installation is the first of it's kind and is still in development. They have nothing to say that can't be said by others; Pascal is kept informed of what is happening and likely to happen. They don't need to get involved in any slanging match about mine is bigger than yours.
And I haven't, to my knowledge "boasted" about this development. I started the post because it looks an amazing bit of kit, and subsequently sounds and promises to be fantastic. And of course it isn't just about the power it will deliver, but also about the engineering that has gone into ensuring that this is a viable long term proposition. And neither has Pascal really boasted. The figures that he is touting have been published as possible from this installation. But Pascal is understandably excited, which I am too if truth be told, as the thought of a passenger ride in such a car is exciting.
So in summary Mark, I am just fed up with the negative jibes, the number of posts on the thread that do nothing constructive, the childish "mine is better than yours" comments. It all smacks of the same sort of tribalism that you get when attending a football match. It's just scoring points when we don't need to score any. There is enough cake to go round for everyone. Apologies for mixing my metaphors.
As I say - maybe it's me, maybe I'm just either too sensitive to these things or maybe just caught up too much in what I think is acceptable professional behaviour.
BTW My original comment was made in a wry, possibly ironic, manner. But behind it are the above reasons.
Dom - bloody good luck with your developments. Just please notice that at no time has anyone from a "competitor" biase hit your threads with negative comments or tried for some free advertising.
I can't be the only one that has noticed, however, that Dom has hijacked this thread and all his posts are of a derogatory nature towards both RG and RG's products. Find me one thing which truly supports RG's proposed developments. The only time that he did anything of this nature was when I pointed out earlier that he is continual berating what RG are doing.
If his product is that good, then why is he bothering to comment so vociferously? Just let the owners and drivers add their comments. And as Graham said, this thread is about Pascal's car. NOT about any TVR Power development. This thread is about a company trying to do something totally different. What Dom is doing is obviously effective, but it is not of the same order of magnitude as RG. So this is like an R&D thread.
So why dismiss everything all the time? And as for "blokes down the pub", that ribbing really doesn't add any value.
Maybe it's me; maybe I'm of an age. But in my profession I would never bad mouth in any way a competitor. It simply is not professional. Although sadly, the whole country from industry through to sport through to politics seem to be doing that these days.
Dom may have a really good product, but I do not think that he is acting in a reasonable and professional manner on here and that alone would put me off wanting to do business if I were still in the market for a rebuild.
Dom now has a 4.5 build; good stuff. Good luck. But do we need to hear about it on here as dig at RG?
And why should RG bother to post on here? There is no need for them to do so. Their specific Super Charged installation is the first of it's kind and is still in development. They have nothing to say that can't be said by others; Pascal is kept informed of what is happening and likely to happen. They don't need to get involved in any slanging match about mine is bigger than yours.
And I haven't, to my knowledge "boasted" about this development. I started the post because it looks an amazing bit of kit, and subsequently sounds and promises to be fantastic. And of course it isn't just about the power it will deliver, but also about the engineering that has gone into ensuring that this is a viable long term proposition. And neither has Pascal really boasted. The figures that he is touting have been published as possible from this installation. But Pascal is understandably excited, which I am too if truth be told, as the thought of a passenger ride in such a car is exciting.
So in summary Mark, I am just fed up with the negative jibes, the number of posts on the thread that do nothing constructive, the childish "mine is better than yours" comments. It all smacks of the same sort of tribalism that you get when attending a football match. It's just scoring points when we don't need to score any. There is enough cake to go round for everyone. Apologies for mixing my metaphors.
As I say - maybe it's me, maybe I'm just either too sensitive to these things or maybe just caught up too much in what I think is acceptable professional behaviour.
BTW My original comment was made in a wry, possibly ironic, manner. But behind it are the above reasons.
Dom - bloody good luck with your developments. Just please notice that at no time has anyone from a "competitor" biase hit your threads with negative comments or tried for some free advertising.
Edited by T40ORA on Wednesday 10th March 10:22
T40ORA said:
As I say - maybe it's me, maybe I'm just either too sensitive to these things or maybe just caught up too much in what I think is acceptable professional behaviour.
PH is getting a tougher place to be these days, esp compared to 5 years ago. Dom has made some useful comments and pertinent observations if you just look through the bravado. I agree with your comment that if I were RG developing this engine then I wouldn't really want all the trials and tribulations posted up for those that don't understand engineering. I know very little about supercharging but from my knowledge I can see that supercharging this engine reliably on such a high compression ratio for 600+ bhp is going to be a very difficult challenge. three years is a long time but after Grahams experience it is not too surprising.
Kilnsea. 
JR said:
I know very little about supercharging but from my knowledge I can see that supercharging this engine reliably on such a high compression ratio for 600+ bhp is going to be a very difficult challenge. three years is a long time but after Grahams experience it is not too surprising.
Indeed as per some guidelines from a manufacturer.http://www.procharger.com/faq.shtml#3
www.Procharger.com said:
Although some manufacturers claim a specific horsepower increase, superchargers actually add horsepower as a percentage gain (percentage of an atmosphere). Assuming an engine with a compression ratio of around 9:1 running pump gas,if a supercharger gives your engine 14.7 psi of boost (another atmosphere) that will essentially double the output of your engine, everything else being equal. After adjusting for thermal and mechanical energy transfer, if an efficient centrifugal supercharger is generating 7.5 psi (approx. 1/2 an atmosphere), you will see around a 35-40% gain in horsepower and torque at your non-supercharged maximum horsepower rpm. If detonation forces you to use an ignition/timing retard system, you will of course see less of a gain because backing off several degrees of timing will greatly reduce an engine's power output. At higher boost levels, the heat generated by compressing air will produce diminishing returns as the boost is increased, although the use of intercooling or racing fuel can avoid this scenario of diminishing returns. Assuming the use of intercooling to run higher boost levels while maintaining reliability, a 100% increase can generally be achieved at around 17 psi on an engine with 9:1 compression running pump gas. The gains in horsepower and torque delivered by each ProCharger system can be found on the price list as well as on the "ProCharger Systems" page within this site
T40ORA said:
Sure, we are all entitled to an opinion - especially on a public forum.
I can't be the only one that has noticed, however, that Dom has hijacked this thread and all his posts are of a derogatory nature towards both RG and RG's products. Find me one thing which truly supports RG's proposed developments. The only time that he did anything of this nature was when I pointed out earlier that he is continual berating what RG are doing.
If his product is that good, then why is he bothering to comment so vociferously? Just let the owners and drivers add their comments. And as Graham said, this thread is about Pascal's car. NOT about any TVR Power development. This thread is about a company trying to do something totally different. What Dom is doing is obviously effective, but it is not of the same order of magnitude as RG. So this is like an R&D thread.
So why dismiss everything all the time? And as for "blokes down the pub", that ribbing really doesn't add any value.
Maybe it's me; maybe I'm of an age. But in my profession I would never bad mouth in any way a competitor. It simply is not professional. Although sadly, the whole country from industry through to sport through to politics seem to be doing that these days.
Dom may have a really good product, but I do not think that he is acting in a reasonable and professional manner on here and that alone would put me off wanting to do business if I were still in the market for a rebuild.
Dom now has a 4.5 build; good stuff. Good luck. But do we need to hear about it on here as dig at RG?
And why should RG bother to post on here? There is no need for them to do so. Their specific Super Charged installation is the first of it's kind and is still in development. They have nothing to say that can't be said by others; Pascal is kept informed of what is happening and likely to happen. They don't need to get involved in any slanging match about mine is bigger than yours.
And I haven't, to my knowledge "boasted" about this development. I started the post because it looks an amazing bit of kit, and subsequently sounds and promises to be fantastic. And of course it isn't just about the power it will deliver, but also about the engineering that has gone into ensuring that this is a viable long term proposition. And neither has Pascal really boasted. The figures that he is touting have been published as possible from this installation. But Pascal is understandably excited, which I am too if truth be told, as the thought of a passenger ride in such a car is exciting.
So in summary Mark, I am just fed up with the negative jibes, the number of posts on the thread that do nothing constructive, the childish "mine is better than yours" comments. It all smacks of the same sort of tribalism that you get when attending a football match. It's just scoring points when we don't need to score any. There is enough cake to go round for everyone. Apologies for mixing my metaphors.
As I say - maybe it's me, maybe I'm just either too sensitive to these things or maybe just caught up too much in what I think is acceptable professional behaviour.
BTW My original comment was made in a wry, possibly ironic, manner. But behind it are the above reasons.
Dom - bloody good luck with your developments. Just please notice that at no time has anyone from a "competitor" biase hit your threads with negative comments or tried for some free advertising.
Everyone is free to hijack any of my THREADS I’ll answer any questions, also if my 4.5 fails I would tell everyone.I can't be the only one that has noticed, however, that Dom has hijacked this thread and all his posts are of a derogatory nature towards both RG and RG's products. Find me one thing which truly supports RG's proposed developments. The only time that he did anything of this nature was when I pointed out earlier that he is continual berating what RG are doing.
If his product is that good, then why is he bothering to comment so vociferously? Just let the owners and drivers add their comments. And as Graham said, this thread is about Pascal's car. NOT about any TVR Power development. This thread is about a company trying to do something totally different. What Dom is doing is obviously effective, but it is not of the same order of magnitude as RG. So this is like an R&D thread.
So why dismiss everything all the time? And as for "blokes down the pub", that ribbing really doesn't add any value.
Maybe it's me; maybe I'm of an age. But in my profession I would never bad mouth in any way a competitor. It simply is not professional. Although sadly, the whole country from industry through to sport through to politics seem to be doing that these days.
Dom may have a really good product, but I do not think that he is acting in a reasonable and professional manner on here and that alone would put me off wanting to do business if I were still in the market for a rebuild.
Dom now has a 4.5 build; good stuff. Good luck. But do we need to hear about it on here as dig at RG?
And why should RG bother to post on here? There is no need for them to do so. Their specific Super Charged installation is the first of it's kind and is still in development. They have nothing to say that can't be said by others; Pascal is kept informed of what is happening and likely to happen. They don't need to get involved in any slanging match about mine is bigger than yours.
And I haven't, to my knowledge "boasted" about this development. I started the post because it looks an amazing bit of kit, and subsequently sounds and promises to be fantastic. And of course it isn't just about the power it will deliver, but also about the engineering that has gone into ensuring that this is a viable long term proposition. And neither has Pascal really boasted. The figures that he is touting have been published as possible from this installation. But Pascal is understandably excited, which I am too if truth be told, as the thought of a passenger ride in such a car is exciting.
So in summary Mark, I am just fed up with the negative jibes, the number of posts on the thread that do nothing constructive, the childish "mine is better than yours" comments. It all smacks of the same sort of tribalism that you get when attending a football match. It's just scoring points when we don't need to score any. There is enough cake to go round for everyone. Apologies for mixing my metaphors.
As I say - maybe it's me, maybe I'm just either too sensitive to these things or maybe just caught up too much in what I think is acceptable professional behaviour.
BTW My original comment was made in a wry, possibly ironic, manner. But behind it are the above reasons.
Dom - bloody good luck with your developments. Just please notice that at no time has anyone from a "competitor" biase hit your threads with negative comments or tried for some free advertising.
Edited by T40ORA on Wednesday 10th March 09:45
Maybe im not professional on forums but to be honest who cares has long has my products work that’s all that matters, competitors are healthy for any business
I for one don’t knock competitors I do the do not talk the talk
Dom
Mark A S said:
Lee, we are all entitled to an opinion, especially on an open internet forum.
Sure, Dom is well known for his P Taking, but it is done in a “mates in the pub” way.
IMO, the way Both you and Pascal have “bigged up” the FFF blower Sp 6 is rather foolish, as for over a year [ or is that 2? ] down the road there are still no results or conclusions.
It would of been prudent not to “boast” about what this engine might achieve, as again, IMO this just opens you up for some ribbing.
TVR power have a more measured approach, they do the R&D test the product, before telling most people. Dom has been very open about the 4.5, telling all before its been thoroughly tested, but as he says, if it “sts itself” he will say so.
The fact that RG have not posted on here as far as I know, means they are also “waiting to see” what the outcome of this Engine is.
I understand that Pascal is excited about the prospect of 600 + BHP, and likes to talk about it, but when you do this, without results, you have to expect some cynicism.
Anyway, as has been said before, isn’t it great we can all have a choice with SP 6 options, its an epic engine
Mark,Sure, Dom is well known for his P Taking, but it is done in a “mates in the pub” way.
IMO, the way Both you and Pascal have “bigged up” the FFF blower Sp 6 is rather foolish, as for over a year [ or is that 2? ] down the road there are still no results or conclusions.
It would of been prudent not to “boast” about what this engine might achieve, as again, IMO this just opens you up for some ribbing.
TVR power have a more measured approach, they do the R&D test the product, before telling most people. Dom has been very open about the 4.5, telling all before its been thoroughly tested, but as he says, if it “s
ts itself” he will say so.The fact that RG have not posted on here as far as I know, means they are also “waiting to see” what the outcome of this Engine is.
I understand that Pascal is excited about the prospect of 600 + BHP, and likes to talk about it, but when you do this, without results, you have to expect some cynicism.
Anyway, as has been said before, isn’t it great we can all have a choice with SP 6 options, its an epic engine
I haven't bigged up anythin, I did NOT mention any specific details about how much horsepower the engine will put out, only of what I'm after, and yes, work is still in progress.
Like I said, I hoped I would be at the end of the, yes almost 3 years development, but let's be honest... Graham is, if I'm not mistaken the very first one ever to install a supercharger on a finger follower equipped Speed Six, and it took him, like he said 4 years to get everything up to the point where he is. Mine is 3 years, so what is the issue here, when you keep in mind that EVERYTHING in my engine is designed from scratch.
I'm the very first to take the FFF concept of Racing Green, and have EVERY possible research that has been done by them, integrated into the engine.
As for concrete numbers, I said I would get them up as soon as the car was properly ran in and mapped. Everyone has been asking how much horsepower it would put out, and the only thing I said so far is that my goal is to have over 600bhp. The fact that RG has not posted on here, is very simple: they are not boasting about anything at all, they just do their job. And from what I have seen so far, they will far exceed my original expectations.
Yes, I have a broken supercharger unit for the moment... Did I ask, after all this time and all efforts for this to happen? No. Out of all things that are improved on my car, the only thing that I expected not to break down, did.
Did I ask that somehow, like Lee mentioned, this has to be a reason to go into a "see, my product is better than yours" pisstake? No. But once again, this always comes down to a certain 4.5 being better... Do I go on every thread about TVR Powers products saying 'Yo Dom, the FFF engine has better this and thats"... nope.
Ah yes, concrete numbers? With the biggest pulley, pretty close to 550bhp, before the faulting SC internals snapped.
And for the record, RG or Omex are not to blame for what happened to the supercharger.... manufacturer admitted liability and is working on a stronger one.
Next thing I'll probably have to read on here is "see, I told you that it wouldn't make 600bhp"... of course not, if the bloody supercharger isn't working properly.
Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 10th March 10:50
Tvr Power said:
Everyone is free to hijack any of my THREADS I’ll answer any questions, also if my 4.5 fails I would tell everyone.
Maybe im not professional on forums but to be honest who cares has long has my products work that’s all that matters, competitors are healthy for any business
I for one don’t knock competitors I do the do not talk the talk
Dom
No need to hijack your threads, we leave the honour of doing so to you....Maybe im not professional on forums but to be honest who cares has long has my products work that’s all that matters, competitors are healthy for any business
I for one don’t knock competitors I do the do not talk the talk
Dom
Shoudn't you be working by the way, if you're a do-the-do-er?
PascalBuyens said:
Tvr Power said:
Everyone is free to hijack any of my THREADS I’ll answer any questions, also if my 4.5 fails I would tell everyone.
Maybe im not professional on forums but to be honest who cares has long has my products work that’s all that matters, competitors are healthy for any business
I for one don’t knock competitors I do the do not talk the talk
Dom
No need to hijack your threads, we leave the honour of doing so to you....Maybe im not professional on forums but to be honest who cares has long has my products work that’s all that matters, competitors are healthy for any business
I for one don’t knock competitors I do the do not talk the talk
Dom
Shoudn't you be working by the way, if you're a do-the-do-er?
Dom
T40ORA said:
Crikey. I understand most of the words but I'll have to digest this slowly over a pint and draw myself a simple picture to figure what that means in terms of acheivable maximums.....
In theory forced induction is simple. An engine gobbles air at roughly atmospheric pressure (allowing for variations such as a RV8 TVR with sub optimum standard induction pipework or a bike which may have some ram air enhancement effect). So this is 14.73 psi (one bar).Going back many a year (hee bar gum) I remember a good 2.0 16v DOHC engine giving 150bhp. Around that time I remember a Ford Cosworth with 225bhp. This had I believe about 7psi. So 50% more power which is also 7/14 ish. So boost increase being % psi / atmospheric - (roughly, due to engineering/reality complications)
Of course implementing the theory is the hard part on an alloy engine that starts out as being high power in the first place!
PascalBuyens said:
JR said:
TVR offered one for sale. Did they build one?
The "Typhon" was supposed to have a supercharged Speed Six IIRC...Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 10th March 11:37
Dom
Tvr Power said:
PascalBuyens said:
JR said:
TVR offered one for sale. Did they build one?
The "Typhon" was supposed to have a supercharged Speed Six IIRC...Edited by PascalBuyens on Wednesday 10th March 11:37
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