Overtaking on 'Biker roads' ?

[Nigel Worc's]

I'm the opposite type of motorcyclist, I did my "test", (you'd laugh, honestly), in 1980.

I can ride anything I want, despite not having ridden for 25 years plus.

I wonder if anyone has ever collated figures on "born again" deaths, versus you new style well taught & tested chaps ?

Being as you have been taught so well, compared to the likes of me who wasn't taught at all (and I truly mean that, just buy bike & crash helmet and off you go), why does there seem to be so many "tits" riding bikes these days ?

They can't all be my age !

[iamAlegend]

upsidedownmark said:

I'd agree with *some* (well, quite a bit) of that, there are *some* complete loons out there.. though frankly some of it smells a bit of 'I have priority'...

The problem is that bikes (and to a lesser extent the pedalled variety) present the capability of doing a lot of things which are probably ill advised. Cars less so simply because they need more room. I think the main thing bikers miss is that they can appear 'from nowhere' from a car perspective - you do have much better vision on a bike.

There are people in all walks of life that lack judgement, and the human animal is intrinsically very bad a judging risk - What scares us the first time does so less the second, and by the time we've done it 20 times, it's no longer 'risky', no matter what the actuality.

Motorbike education - the much lamented new test etc - is actually pretty good in my experience (biker of 2 years). There's a decent amount of attention to roadcraft and suchlike. Lane splitting can be done perfectly safely, and legally. It can also be done aggressively and dangerously. I could write quite a lot on it - but you've identified the key point - it's not just about what you can do, it's about giving other people the time and opportunity to see you, e.g. not filtering at daft speeds.

I also think there's a demographic thing at play where if you like, the 'cost of entry' in terms of comfort, convenience, risk and so on will concentrate the more risk-taking types towards bikes; I certainly find myself shaking my head at bikes more often than cars.

That said, if you're 'preparing' for an overtake and the person behind is more awake, too bad! I'd also suggest that limiting power is a futile path - you've already sunk that argument by lumping in cyclists; not the most overpowered bunch in the world are they

Equally every motorcyclist I've ever met thinks that cars can, and do flatten them at will, mouth the inevitable 'SMIDSY', and get off scott free..

Lastly, I'd note that we have no proof the oncoming bike *was* really doing unfeasibly large numbers of leptons. Easy enough to feel like that when they're coming at you, and you're mid-overtake, but there's no way of objectively measuring it is there? Could equally have been doing the speed limit. Or been a car, or whatever..

I've got a few biker friends and they mostly seem quite well behaved, and the only accidents involve a car hitting them and getting 100% blame. They do have the mentality that all cars should move out of the way in traffic though.

A bike got very angry at me because he was trying to undertake on a single carriage way in traffic, my car was too far over for him to do it, I decided that as there was a roundabout not too far away, it would be stupid of him to carry on because he would have been invisible pulling out onto it.

He/She was definitely going faster than anything i'd seen that day!

I fully admit that I should have thought about it more as I underestimated the effect of adding 300kg to the car


(disclaimer : most bikers are quite considerate, this isn't meant to be a dig at them or anything)

[upsidedownmark]

Nigel: Probably 'cos not everyone listens, and with age comes patience and a sense of your own mortality, something I certainly didn't have in my youth. I'm also an old git - just new to bikes

Legend - fair enough, not digging at you either. WRT filtering, I don't think everyone should get out of my way, on the other hand, there's no reason for you to impede when you could shuffle over a foot or two; I prefer not to pass on the left and rarely do so (inc when I'm on a pushbike), but also consider that I sit high enough to see over the top of most cars - not really for you to make the call if it's safe for me to pass.

[softtop]

Nigel Worc's said:

I wonder if anyone has ever collated figures on "born again" deaths, versus you new style well taught & tested chaps

My cousin met one in his tractor. He looked to see if the road was clear and pulled out of the field with his trailer. A bike came round a bend and because the road rises and then dips he did not see the trailer. His widow said he was out on his recently purchased second time around bike. 40 ish I recall

[Nigel Worc's]

softtop said:

Nigel Worc's said:

I wonder if anyone has ever collated figures on "born again" deaths, versus you new style well taught & tested chaps

My cousin met one in his tractor. He looked to see if the road was clear and pulled out of the field with his trailer. A bike came round a bend and because the road rises and then dips he did not see the trailer. His widow said he was out on his recently purchased second time around bike. 40 ish I recall

This wasn't in Herefordshire a few years back, five or so, and he put himself through the grass cutting attachment ...... was it ?

[softtop]

Nigel Worc's said:

This wasn't in Herefordshire a few years back, five or so, and he put himself through the grass cutting attachment ...... was it ?

Cheshire

[Nigel Worc's]

softtop said:

Nigel Worc's said:

This wasn't in Herefordshire a few years back, five or so, and he put himself through the grass cutting attachment ...... was it ?

Cheshire

Fooking hell, two of them then, the last one of my "mates" to manage to kill himself went through the grass cutting attachment of one in Herefordshire.

[Hooli]

Nigel Worc's said:

I'm the opposite type of motorcyclist, I did my "test", (you'd laugh, honestly), in 1980.

I can ride anything I want, despite not having ridden for 25 years plus.

I wonder if anyone has ever collated figures on "born again" deaths, versus you new style well taught & tested chaps ?

Being as you have been taught so well, compared to the likes of me who wasn't taught at all (and I truly mean that, just buy bike & crash helmet and off you go), why does there seem to be so many "tits" riding bikes these days ?

They can't all be my age !

Most people I know who have ridden as long as you learnt by falling off small bikes at low speed, now days new riders get a lot quicker bike & fall off a lot faster.

I run a 1977 Bonnie, it's so slow compared to a modern 750 it's funny. If I crashed that riding hard I'd probably be doing half the speed of a modern 750 ridden as well, so more chance of living etc.

Having said that I much prefer my Triumph to anything new

[Nigel Worc's]

Hooli said:

Most people I know who have ridden as long as you learnt by falling off small bikes at low speed, now days new riders get a lot quicker bike & fall off a lot faster.

I run a 1977 Bonnie, it's so slow compared to a modern 750 it's funny. If I crashed that riding hard I'd probably be doing half the speed of a modern 750 ridden as well, so more chance of living etc.

Having said that I much prefer my Triumph to anything new

I may have an event to invite you to, around September, if you fancy a ride to good old Worcester.

My mate, the one with the classic bike shop/workshop, is trying to organise a coffee and biccy day, for 70's and 80's bikes, in aid of help for heroes.

[Hooli]

Nigel Worc's said:

Hooli said:

Most people I know who have ridden as long as you learnt by falling off small bikes at low speed, now days new riders get a lot quicker bike & fall off a lot faster.

I run a 1977 Bonnie, it's so slow compared to a modern 750 it's funny. If I crashed that riding hard I'd probably be doing half the speed of a modern 750 ridden as well, so more chance of living etc.

Having said that I much prefer my Triumph to anything new

I may have an event to invite you to, around September, if you fancy a ride to good old Worcester.

My mate, the one with the classic bike shop/workshop, is trying to organise a coffee and biccy day, for 70's and 80's bikes, in aid of help for heroes.

Sounds interesting, especially if I've got the Bonnie on the road. I need to sort out the clutch coming loose & a few leaks. It's turning into a rebuild (again) to do it right this time.

[PaulMoor]

Nigel Worc's said:

I wonder if anyone has ever collated figures on "born again" deaths, versus you new style well taught & tested chaps ?

They did (Kind of). I have posted it on here many times before but can't find it at the moment. It was some work done by one of the police forces on the causes of motorcyclist deaths.

The important points from it were:

In multi vehicle accidents involving a bike the major cause was car drivers (Junctions)
In single vehicle accidents involving a bike the major cause was going too fast for the conditions.
The highest risk groups of motorcyclists were 41-50, riding 600cc+ "sports" type bikes and under 18s on >126cc.
The higest risk times were summer weekends.
The lowest risk times were winder mid week.

I'll see if I can dig it out.

But, yes, there are allot of dumb motorcyclists around. Especaly at the weekend at the moment. Both myself and my wife ride all year. We were out in the car at the weekend and about 50% of the bikes we saw were doing something that makes us both wince. Stupid overtakes, massive speed, haging way over the center of the road on corners. Oddly it always seems to be people with shiney sports bikes and clean leathers, often in groups of 6-7.

Anyway, back to the OP's point. If it was as you say then I would say about 80-20 in your favour. Possibly you missed him, possibly you should have pulled back in, but if he was traveling at way over the limit then there is not much you can do.

However bikes can seem to be going much faster than they are.

Edited by PaulMoor on Friday 3rd May 11:40