4 wheel drive & the real world

[prg123]

s p a c e m a n said:

Four wheel drive cars are bloody boring, you have to push them beyond what I considered acceptable on a public road to get much excitement from them. If you just want to commute in the rain then yeah they're OK, but it's very unlikely you're ever going to actually need the traction unless you live north of the border.

Audi R8 boring????

- Pete

[jamieduff1981]

prg123 said:

s p a c e m a n said:

Four wheel drive cars are bloody boring, you have to push them beyond what I considered acceptable on a public road to get much excitement from them. If you just want to commute in the rain then yeah they're OK, but it's very unlikely you're ever going to actually need the traction unless you live north of the border.

Audi R8 boring????

- Pete

There's no requirement for AWD north of the border either. I should know, I've lived here all my life.

[Scuffers]

doogz said:

bennyboysvuk said:

RWD allows easy access to many roundabout exit drifts or the kind of exit of a roundabout where the steering points straight ahead and you finish the corner with the rear wheels. I've not had the opportunity to try power-sliding a powerful 4WD off a roundabout so don't know how it feels. Can anyone with an Audi RS model, GTR or FQ360 comment?

A small (or big) power-slide off a roundabout is great fun, but I would expect it to be nigh on impossible in a 4WD unless you gave it a serious scandinavian flick to get it going.

Not really. Well, depends how much power is available.

as well as what kind of 4WD system it used and what tyres it has fitted.

people overlook the basics a lot of the time, but tyres have a much bigger impact on how a car behaves than almost anything else.

[Output Flange]

doogz said:

True, but in most, possibly all road cars, dump the clutch and send 500bhp towards the tyres, and they're going to spin.

Unless you're in a Sunny GTiR, in which case the wheels won't change speed, but you'll be collecting gearbox parts from the surrounding four postcode areas.

[deltashad]

You can get driving pleasure from any driven wheeled car.
Years ago a friend had a Subaru Legacy XT? was a 1985ish period car, it was incredibly capable even though not massively powered. He would take it on some forest tracks and hit incredible speeds, a very good driver, he also had a Talbot Sunbeam Lotus rally rep which was even more entertaining (RWD).

From my experience with turbocharged 4WD cars (perminant), I find they have incredible traction (when the turbo isn't bogged down). On the bends the Lancia is very sure-footed, if you're really pushing it, 4 wheel drifting through the apexes there isn't much that comes close, but I feel this is generally a much more entertaining drive than an Audi.

For something like a new German car as has been said, it's probably not going to make much difference. RWD is great fun. I've had far more pleasure driving a RWD car than any FWD, even though the FWD may be the quicker option. I'm not too clued up with the Audis 4wd system, but from my understanding its pretty much FWD most of the time and only shifts power to the rear when conditions demand something like a 90/10 split. Which to my mind makes me think the M135i would be the more entertaining drivetrain.

Whatever you go for it's all about how much fun you're having. The excessive power and badge will only really impress others.

[deltashad]

doogz said:

Output Flange said:

Unless you're in a Sunny GTiR, in which case the wheels won't change speed, but you'll be collecting gearbox parts from the surrounding four postcode areas.

Yeah, I've heard that. Would rather have an S14a and deal with 2WD, and not have to consider gearboxes as a service item.

Clutches too. Went through plenty trying to get the power down on a standing start and not getting blown away by Micra diesels.

[rsv gone!]

Pixelpeep said:

Now - what's the catch with this?! > http://www.gateway2lease.com/bmw_m135i_leasing.php...

£287 a month Inc vat with £2k down?!

The catch is far less miles p.a. than I need to do

[scherzkeks]

Kawasicki said:

Yes, the 4wd has significantly less lateral grip potential....but but but marketing said....

In the dry, the primary benefit is corner exit traction, but depending on how tight the circuit is and how powerful/heavy the car is, this could be somewhat negated.

That said, a lack of a sport suspension on the AWD model would also certainly play a role in the slightly lower circuit time and lat. grip numbers. Then there is the issue of tire type and dimension. But I realize that (in the forum context at least) these details don't interest a select few face-tweet generation types on here. The big picture is always more complicated than some would like to accept.

[rsv gone!]

bennyboysvuk said:

RWD allows easy access to many roundabout exit drifts or the kind of exit of a roundabout where the steering points straight ahead and you finish the corner with the rear wheels. I've not had the opportunity to try power-sliding a powerful 4WD off a roundabout so don't know how it feels. Can anyone with an Audi RS model, GTR or FQ360 comment?

MR FQ300- Off a tight roundabout, you can step the rear out in the dry, in first. In the wet, you can get into a massive 4-wheel drift on the exit. You do need a lot of space, though.

Generally though, they just give massive traction - which is fun in a different way. The novelty of a 5s 0-60 in the wet is quite something.


To the OP though, I would have the BMW.

[Mave]

PhillipM said:

Apart from a lot of that is generated from aero and active arb's. .

Edited by PhillipM on Tuesday 28th January 02:44

Do you really get much aero at 40mph?

Edited by Mave on Tuesday 28th January 09:31

[Heaveho]

bennyboysvuk said:

RWD allows easy access to many roundabout exit drifts or the kind of exit of a roundabout where the steering points straight ahead and you finish the corner with the rear wheels. I've not had the opportunity to try power-sliding a powerful 4WD off a roundabout so don't know how it feels. Can anyone with an Audi RS model, GTR or FQ360 comment?.

I have an Evo 8/9 hybrid with about 380 brake, once you have a little time to figure it out, it'll do pretty much everything you might regard as fun.........I've had what felt like some very long drifts with maybe half a turn of lock, it'll really try to come round if you back off mid-corner, which is fun if you remember to throttle back on sharpish........it's real party trick for me is to astonish passengers with the speed it can get around a large roundabout with just a tiny amount of opposite lock and little adjustments of the throttle.

It doesn't understeer! It's the type of experience that would deflate the argument that 4wd isn't fun.

[ORD]

To summarise: Evos and similar are a lot of fun despite (and in part because of) being AWD; dull as dishwater Audis are dull.

The only real problem with RWD (which someone has pointed out) is that the average driver will respond wrongly to exceeding the limits and, if you are going very fast, that can be a problem.

I have had to keep saying "Dont brake!" to my wife when she enters a corner too fast. She, unlike me, is not a driving god.

[scherzkeks]

Heaveho said:

I have an Evo 8/9 hybrid with about 380 brake, once you have a little time to figure it out, it'll do pretty much everything you might regard as fun.........I've had what felt like some very long drifts with maybe half a turn of lock, it'll really try to come round if you back off mid-corner, which is fun if you remember to throttle back on sharpish........it's real party trick for me is to astonish passengers with the speed it can get around a large roundabout with just a tiny amount of opposite lock and little adjustments of the throttle.

It doesn't understeer! It's the type of experience that would deflate the argument that 4wd isn't fun.

The EVO does understeer. But that is beside the point; the better question is why some equate hooning with performance driving. They are not one and the same.

[nickfrog]

scherzkeks said:

The EVO does understeer.

That's right. It's a well known fact that only Audi Quattros don't understeer

scherzkeks said:

But that is beside the point; the better question is why some equate hooning with performance driving. They are not one and the same.

How would you know ? You've only just started driving on track and you know next to FA. You have demonstrated that you don't even understand traction circle.


I knew you would turn up here to defend 4wd at all costs as the absolute must of performance driving despite many people with 100 times your motorsport talent/experience patiently explaining that RWD is not too bad either with just a modicrum of talent. Ring in May ? Still interested ?

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 28th January 09:41

[Scuffers]

So audis lemans winning car was not 4wd?

[nickfrog]

And how was it remotely possible that a lowly RWD Toyota beat the R18 Quattro at Bahrain ?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111672

[y2blade]

After 14months in my S4 (Torsen diff NOT Haldex) I can honestly say I won't be going back to RWD or FWD in a hurry.

[heebeegeetee]

The OP might be interested in Harris's M135i v RS3 comparison: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=120...

What a dreadful car that RS3 is. The thought of having to live with that just for the odd T-junction or a bit of snow...

[anonymous-user]

scherzkeks said:

The EVO does understeer. But that is beside the point; the better question is why some equate hooning with performance driving. They are not one and the same.

Oh no, not Dr Haldex, please stop.

[300bhp/ton]

Pixelpeep said:

How much difference does 4wd make in the real world for general day to day getting about and making progress?

I have heard many a horror story about RWD and snow and have personal experience of the issues of trying to put decent power down in a FWD car so in choosing a 'keeper' should 4wd be a must have, a nice to have or a no point to have.

Reason i ask is because i am looking at next car purchase and if i can bin the need for 4wd my options get a lot cheaper!

Basically the A45 and the RS3 tick all of my boxes except price, the m135i ticks all of them except 4wd so can someone give me real world experiences to give me an idea.

I have never driven a powerful RWD car which also concerns me slightly but i can't ignore the price difference.

Help!

I'm sure much has been covered already. But this all boils down to:

-where you drive
-how you drive
-the type of car
-the type of 4wd system vs 2wd setup (LSD or open diff)
-and your mental attitude to driving in certain conditions.