Indicating on motorways advice needed

[JM]

RobM77 said:

JM said:

Ahbefive said:

People that don't signal are quite simply ignorant idiots.

Even if there is nobody to signal to?

Yes, that's the ignorant bit. You couldn't possibly know there's definitely nobody there.

Yes you can know there is nobody there.

3am rural road, middle of nowhere, no houses or properties within miles, no lights from people or vehicles and your headlights illuminate the roads and verges and there are no bushes, trees or other things restricting your vision, yet you would still indicate turning onto a side road/drive.

[ashleyman]

I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't.

Theres no hard and fast rule it's just reading the road ahead and behind and judging the need.

Some good example situations posted in this thread so far where indication just isn't required.

[Vipers]

Who was it said "Why do I need to indicate, I know where I am going", too many of those around these days.

[pim]

I didn't read all the post.My pennies worth.

I indicate overtaking and returning back to the lane I came from.

I don't flash lights on a motorway.The only time I use hazards if there is a emergency ahead or a que due to traffic.Brake lights should be enough but I like to protect myself.

Using hazards for a thank you or flashing you headlights could be interpreted so many ways.

[pim]

ashleyman said:

I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't.

Theres no hard and fast rule it's just reading the road ahead and behind and judging the need.

Some good example situations posted in this thread so far where indication just isn't required.

Are you serious? That is a bad habit you picking up or pursuing.

[RobM77]

JM said:

RobM77 said:

JM said:

Ahbefive said:

People that don't signal are quite simply ignorant idiots.

Even if there is nobody to signal to?

Yes, that's the ignorant bit. You couldn't possibly know there's definitely nobody there.

Yes you can know there is nobody there.

3am rural road, middle of nowhere, no houses or properties within miles, no lights from people or vehicles and your headlights illuminate the roads and verges and there are no bushes, trees or other things restricting your vision, yet you would still indicate turning onto a side road/drive.

We were talking about a motorway with cars around.

However, going off topic to reply to your post; of course, yes, there will be some rare situations where indicating is not necessary. Regarding your example, I think I'd choose broad daylight rather than 3am, but I see your point. Even so, there's no actual harm in indicating anyway is there? Just because someone does that doesn't necessarily mean they don't understand the meaning behind indicating. If you want to demonstrate an advanced approach to indicating then you can do so with timing and tactics, or just keep it quietly to yourself and not feel the need to differentiate yourself so clearly for the sake of it. Potentially (no matter how unlikely) compromising safety to demonstrate safer driving is a contradiction, surely? Dropping indicating entirely puts a lot of weight on your judgement of the situation, and I always think it's a good idea to have a backup if your judgement isn't perfect. Adding layers of safety so if one fails there's another to fall back on is the core principle behind most advanced driving. Similarly, there no real need to rev match, or steer, brake and accelerate smoothly if you're driving at a safe speed, but you do so anyway to add a layer of safety. That's what advanced driving is, surely?

There's also no real benefit to not signalling. For example, if you spot that an S bend up ahead is clear and there's something to be gained by straight lining it (i.e. more capability to stop for a deer etc due to lower lateral loading on the tyres, less tyre wear, greater progress) then that's fair enough; however in the case of not indicating, what's the benefit?

[ashleyman]

pim said:

ashleyman said:

I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't.

Theres no hard and fast rule it's just reading the road ahead and behind and judging the need.

Some good example situations posted in this thread so far where indication just isn't required.

Are you serious? That is a bad habit you picking up or pursuing.

Like I said: I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't. At all other times I do indicate!

[RobM77]

ashleyman said:

pim said:

ashleyman said:

I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't.

Theres no hard and fast rule it's just reading the road ahead and behind and judging the need.

Some good example situations posted in this thread so far where indication just isn't required.

Are you serious? That is a bad habit you picking up or pursuing.

Like I said: I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't. At all other times I do indicate!

Some genuine questions:

How often do you think you make a mistake and fail to spot someone that would have benefited? How many of those incidents would have been safer if you had indicated?

The other situation is when there isn't someone who would benefit initially, but then they appear a few seconds later. Roundabouts are a classic one because of all the vanishing points on approach. Do you then take your mind off the manoeuvre and indicate? What if they needed to know before you spot them and indicate?

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 9th January 16:01

[Mandat]

ashleyman said:

pim said:

ashleyman said:

I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't.

Theres no hard and fast rule it's just reading the road ahead and behind and judging the need.

Some good example situations posted in this thread so far where indication just isn't required.

Are you serious? That is a bad habit you picking up or pursuing.

Like I said: I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't. At all other times I do indicate!

Apparently, tis the advanced driving school of thought.

[Vipers]

Mandat said:

ashleyman said:

pim said:

ashleyman said:

I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't.

Theres no hard and fast rule it's just reading the road ahead and behind and judging the need.

Some good example situations posted in this thread so far where indication just isn't required.

Are you serious? That is a bad habit you picking up or pursuing.

Like I said: I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't. At all other times I do indicate!

Apparently, tis the advanced driving school of thought.

Just been down the shop, came to a T junction, no one behind me, no pedestrians or vehicles left or right, broad daylight why indicate.

But if I am on for example dual carriageways or motorways, even if I think my indication will not benifit others, if there are vehicles around, or behind me, I just do it, nothing lost.

I just find it just easy to MSM at those times.

[titian]

Much of this thread is covered if you use the IAM's system,IPSGA used on the approach to every hazard whatever that may be.

I = Information, Take, Use and Give it (or Observe, Anticipate & Plan)
P = Position, what is the correct position and how to achieve it (Information again)
S = Speed, what is the correct speed to negotiate the hazard and how do I achieve it (Information again)
G = Gear, after reaching the correct speed, what Gear do I now need (Information again)
A = Accelerator to move smoothy through/past the hazard

Information is considered during each element of IPSGA if it changes, your actions may well change eg. if no one was in sight at the start of IPSGA and they appear later, when no signal was required maybe just a few seconds ago, it is required now.

If you apply IPSGA at ALL hazards you have all bases covered. You may even consider that no one will benefit from a signal now and I'm turning left , for instance, that large building on my left is creating a sterile zone ( I can't see through the building) maybe this time I give a "just in case" left signal - just in case a vehicle appears coming out of the junction I intend to turn into. I've considered what MAY happen and have covered that possibility, it's a positive decission rather than just flicking on the indicator willy nilly.

Someone said "I give a left indicator when pulling back in having overtaken them", why, you are driving away from them you have checked your mirrors, inside and nearside, you even do a quick left shoulder check to ensure it's safe to move over to the left - signal not required!

[TheLordJohn]

Unsure of what's legally correct (it's been a few years since I did my theory...) but I indicate to pull out but don't indicate to pull back in.
I don't indicate to pull back in because (unless you're driving down south) that's what you've got to do. So it's a given I am going to pull back into the lane I pulled out of when it is safe to do so.

[yellowjack]

JM said:

Ahbefive said:

People that don't signal are quite simply ignorant idiots.

Even if there is nobody to signal to?

If he's seen someone not signalling, then there obviously was someone there to signal to. No?


I'm sick to death of 'special needs' drivers who either don't signal, or signal incorrectly. Roundabouts are the worst places, followed closely by idiots turning left OFF a main road into the side road I'm waiting to turn right out of. And wk-socks who don't consider ALL ROAD USERS when planning to signal or not. Cyclists and pedestrians can make damned good use of a signal if one is given, in order to plan their next move.

Signalling? JFDI!

[ashleyman]

RobM77 said:

ashleyman said:

pim said:

ashleyman said:

I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't.

Theres no hard and fast rule it's just reading the road ahead and behind and judging the need.

Some good example situations posted in this thread so far where indication just isn't required.

Are you serious? That is a bad habit you picking up or pursuing.

Like I said: I'll indicate if I feel someone will benefit from my doing so. Otherwise I don't. At all other times I do indicate!

Some genuine questions:

How often do you think you make a mistake and fail to spot someone that would have benefited? How many of those incidents would have been safer if you had indicated?

The other situation is when there isn't someone who would benefit initially, but then they appear a few seconds later. Roundabouts are a classic one because of all the vanishing points on approach. Do you then take your mind off the manoeuvre and indicate? What if they needed to know before you spot them and indicate?

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 9th January 16:01

The post from Titian below makes some excellent points.

To answer your questions, it doesn't happen often but if I am not indicating and spot someone who would benefit then I put it on. No harm done.

Roundabouts I tend to indicate correctly all the time. The only exception is when I'm driving extremely late at night/early in the morning when there are no cars around at all and there's simply no point. I drove 16 miles at 3:30am this morning and would estimate I indicated maybe 3 times as there was simply nothing around to benefit from a signal.

[JM]

yellowjack said:

JM said:

Ahbefive said:

People that don't signal are quite simply ignorant idiots.

Even if there is nobody to signal to?

If he's seen someone not signalling, then there obviously was someone there to signal to. No?

He didn't say he'd seen someone not signalling, just made a statement.
And even of there is someone 'there' it doesn't mean the signal is of any benefit to them.

One example, a car overtakes me on a single carriageway road, there is no need for them to indicate that they are returning to the nearside lane. I'd probably prefer they concentrated on reducing their speed for the upcoming corner than worrying about indicating they are going to do something I fully expect them to do, and they usually do half-way through the move anyway.

Fully agree about those who don't indicate when they should though.

[RobM77]

Observation is never perfect and it's a fallacy to assume that. People miss things all the time.

[Ahbefive]

It's not hard to use indicators, that's what they are there for.

If you struggle to use them you shouldn't be allowed to drive on the roads around other drivers.

[Vipers]

TheLordJohn said:

Unsure of what's legally correct (it's been a few years since I did my theory...) but I indicate to pull out but don't indicate to pull back in.
I don't indicate to pull back in because (unless you're driving down south) that's what you've got to do. So it's a given I am going to pull back into the lane I pulled out of when it is safe to do so.

Short of checking, I think you should when changing lanes, on a dual carriageway or motorway when indicating to overtake on a single carriageway you do not need to indicate to pull back in. No doubt if I am wrong, someone will tell us.

[IanCormac]

I indicate when moving out, but not when moving back to the left. People aren't supposed to over take you on the left so there is no need.

[Vipers]

IanCormac said:

I indicate when moving out, but not when moving back to the left. People aren't supposed to over take you on the left so there is no need.

Think your right, and I was wrong, just found this -

Once you feel there is a safe distance from the red car to enable you to move back into the left lane, look into your interior mirror and left side mirror. If you see the front of the vehicle you wish to overtake in your main interior mirror, you know you have sufficient and safe distance from that vehicle to move back to the left.

To be safe, take a look into the left blind spot to ensure all is clear there; motorbikes can come from know where.

Signal to the left, again to let other know of your intentions. It is not mandatory to signal to the left when moving back in, although if the motorway is busy, it’s a good idea to do so.