Does anyone change gear anymore
Discussion
Both my cars now are manual, have owned 2 proper auto box cars in the past, loved them but they were seen as exec type cars (Both Vauxhall Omega, 2ltr petrol and 2.5ltr BMW TD).
Most of my driving now is longer distance so the manual's are fine, in heavy traffic they can be a little more tiring as my knees are not as good as they use to be for the clutch (and in those auto's I use to put the car in N when at traffic lights as not to blind the people behind me by sitting on the brakes
), still, I think proper auto boxes belong on those luxury cars and manual boxes belong on your every day car, forget the crappy wanna be pretend auto's, its either a proper one or manual for me
Most of my driving now is longer distance so the manual's are fine, in heavy traffic they can be a little more tiring as my knees are not as good as they use to be for the clutch (and in those auto's I use to put the car in N when at traffic lights as not to blind the people behind me by sitting on the brakes
), still, I think proper auto boxes belong on those luxury cars and manual boxes belong on your every day car, forget the crappy wanna be pretend auto's, its either a proper one or manual for me Ahbefive said:
Autos are for people that don't like cars or driving, old people and women. If you want fun then manual it is.
I totally disagree....they have their place in the same way as a manual has its place.I have an SUV with an auto box, when we traded in the XC60 (manual) I swore blind I wouldn't get another manual as it is a ball ache when towing and just generally going long distances. The adaptive cruise control works to its full capacity in an auto and you can just go from A to B.
I wouldn't count myself in any of the list above...I do agree if you want to have fun have a manual...which is why my everyday car is a Focus RS and that is a manual, and although there was no option to go with anything but...I wouldn't have it any other way...it is a delight to change gear in although the accelerator pedal is a little low to perform a well executed heal and toe...but still wouldn't have it any other way.
A few of my cars have manual gearboxes.
I was out today in my 1971 Mach 1 Mustang with a factory 4-speed Toploader. It has a tall rear axle ratio and an unsurprising amount of torque, so changing gear isn't something that has to happen as often as one would think.
The gearbox is wonderfully meaty and precise, yet light once warm. It can be rushed when pushing-on and, I feel, connects me more with the character of this particular car. More fun? I'd say so. It enables me to make the most of the exhaust note if nothing else. Throttle blips on downshifts are particularly satisfying.
I hopped out of that into my automatic everyday car - a 10 year-old Range Rover. A manual in that would be far less fun. The RR is immensely satisfying to drive and wouldn't be anywhere near as good with a clutch.
The R380 5-speed in my Defender is another beautifully engineered manual gearbox that is a delight to use.
I've driven my parents Td4 Freelander with a manual, though, and wondered why anyone would choose it. It needs almost constant gear changes to keep its little diesel donk on the boil and becomes a little tiring after a while. An automatic makes far more sense.
I was out today in my 1971 Mach 1 Mustang with a factory 4-speed Toploader. It has a tall rear axle ratio and an unsurprising amount of torque, so changing gear isn't something that has to happen as often as one would think.
The gearbox is wonderfully meaty and precise, yet light once warm. It can be rushed when pushing-on and, I feel, connects me more with the character of this particular car. More fun? I'd say so. It enables me to make the most of the exhaust note if nothing else. Throttle blips on downshifts are particularly satisfying.
I hopped out of that into my automatic everyday car - a 10 year-old Range Rover. A manual in that would be far less fun. The RR is immensely satisfying to drive and wouldn't be anywhere near as good with a clutch.
The R380 5-speed in my Defender is another beautifully engineered manual gearbox that is a delight to use.
I've driven my parents Td4 Freelander with a manual, though, and wondered why anyone would choose it. It needs almost constant gear changes to keep its little diesel donk on the boil and becomes a little tiring after a while. An automatic makes far more sense.
It was easier to criticise automatics in days gone by; slow to change, dimwitted electronics choosing bad moments to swap ratios, not to mention fewer of them than the manual, leading to less than ideal dfferences in performance between epically spaced gears. Then you had poorer MPG and performanc to pay for all the compromises.
Now, you have fast changing wet and dry clutch autos, intelligently able to learn and hand out full control to the driver, with more ratios than the manual, better objective performance and fuel economy.
I love manuals, however the argument for one in an everyday car, where the purpose is commuting or otherwise primarily doing things other than hooning, is to me pretty much based on lower purchase cost, and that's about it.
Now, you have fast changing wet and dry clutch autos, intelligently able to learn and hand out full control to the driver, with more ratios than the manual, better objective performance and fuel economy.
I love manuals, however the argument for one in an everyday car, where the purpose is commuting or otherwise primarily doing things other than hooning, is to me pretty much based on lower purchase cost, and that's about it.
A 335d with sport auto-trans gives the best of three, auto (whichever setting), paddle-shift, or manual. On swoopy hills and bends manual will hold a gear, for overtakes in a hurry the down-paddle is useful, and kick-down for quicker overtakes. My previous car was a 5 speed I6 2.5, and I did enjoy the block changing form 5th to 3rd at roundabouts. Yes there is the problem of waiting in traffic with rear lights glowing, but also the hill-hold on the footbrake is a breeze. I still use my wife's 1.2 Fabia, to keep my fully manual driving up to scratch, (a very capable car as well). My son has just leased an Evoque (one-upmanship, with its 9 speed auto). He said it was easy to get used to. Yes, there will always be manuals on smaller ICE cars, but larger and electric cars will be auto. (P.S. has anyone driven a BMW i3?, I have no sensible means of charging, and have range issues, but one day...)
Pica-Pica said:
A 335d with sport auto-trans gives the best of three, auto (whichever setting), paddle-shift, or manual. On swoopy hills and bends manual will hold a gear, for overtakes in a hurry the down-paddle is useful, and kick-down for quicker overtakes. My previous car was a 5 speed I6 2.5, and I did enjoy the block changing form 5th to 3rd at roundabouts. Yes there is the problem of waiting in traffic with rear lights glowing, but also the hill-hold on the footbrake is a breeze. I still use my wife's 1.2 Fabia, to keep my fully manual driving up to scratch, (a very capable car as well). My son has just leased an Evoque (one-upmanship, with its 9 speed auto). He said it was easy to get used to. Yes, there will always be manuals on smaller ICE cars, but larger and electric cars will be auto. (P.S. has anyone driven a BMW i3?, I have no sensible means of charging, and have range issues, but one day...)
An 8speed zf box is very good but in no way can it be described as manual.Your 2nd from last sentence, with petrol/diesel cars, yes there will atill be larger cars with a manual box as they are far more involving for purposes of driver enjoyment. Also no, fully electric cars do not have an auto gearbox.
heel toe double clutch every day to work, i really enjoy shifting since im very good at it and like the mechanichal interaction, even at race pace, not many of my friends understand me
. The 2nd car i auto though, can be nice from time to time, especially if you drive through the city..
. The 2nd car i auto though, can be nice from time to time, especially if you drive through the city..Nearlyretired said:
There is not such thing as "Advanced" Driving.
Everyone drives to a different standard, some good, some bad.
Not so. Advanced Driving is still a skill, manual or auto. Its not about your gearbox, its about how you drive and apply the Information, Position, Speed, Gears, Acceleration stages along with the other strategies employed in Advanced Driving.Everyone drives to a different standard, some good, some bad.
Believe it or not, all taxi and private hire drivers must pass at least the AA Drivetech assessment which is based on the same protocols as
those that Advanced Police Drivers and Advanced Motorists apply every day.
If you think its easy, cough up the £99 and take the test without any training. Then when you fail, take the training and learn to drive in the advanced way and enjoy reduced insurance premiums.
MarkSwan said:
Believe it or not, all taxi and private hire drivers must pass at least the AA Drivetech assessment which is based on the same protocols as
those that Advanced Police Drivers and Advanced Motorists apply every day.
This isn't correct.those that Advanced Police Drivers and Advanced Motorists apply every day.
Some local authorities require new applicants for taxi and/or private hire drivers licences to pass an additional driving test as evidence that they are "fit and proper". Of those which do, only a minority require an AA Drivetech assessment.
Approximately half of all local authorities in England and Wales do not require applicants to undertake a driving assessment of any kind.
I bow to your greater knowledge. I certainly had to for South Cambridgeshire and assumed this was a national thing. Knowing SCDC I should known they would be different. LOL
However, that said it should be mandatory dont you think? Especially where you are responsible for the well being of a fare paying passenger?
However, that said it should be mandatory dont you think? Especially where you are responsible for the well being of a fare paying passenger?
MarkSwan said:
I bow to your greater knowledge. I certainly had to for South Cambridgeshire and assumed this was a national thing. Knowing SCDC I should known they would be different. LOL
However, that said it should be mandatory dont you think? Especially where you are responsible for the well being of a fare paying passenger?
Absolutely! Unfortunately, despite many opportunities to set national standards for taxi/PH drivers, the Government seem happy to continue allowing councils to regulate drivers under a piece of legislation drafted in 1847, which leaves it up to each individual council to set their own standards.However, that said it should be mandatory dont you think? Especially where you are responsible for the well being of a fare paying passenger?
Ahbefive said:
An 8speed zf box is very good but in no way can it be described as manual.
Your 2nd from last sentence, with petrol/diesel cars, yes there will atill be larger cars with a manual box as they are far more involving for purposes of driver enjoyment. Also no, fully electric cars do not have an auto gearbox.
No the 335d is better than manual. Over the switchbacks? Knock over to M/S and use 4th gears spread of power and torque to go up down and round. Want a rapid overtake? Again, knock it to manual or use a left paddle, it will drop one or two gears and hold for 10 secs, if you go, it stays held, if not it changes to the economic revs. This 'box is fantastic. Although I did have fun in my previous E36 I6 trying to perfect clutchless gear changes. OK changing up, lift off till you judge no load on the teeth faces, snick into neutral and then up with a rev match if revs were deemed too low.Your 2nd from last sentence, with petrol/diesel cars, yes there will atill be larger cars with a manual box as they are far more involving for purposes of driver enjoyment. Also no, fully electric cars do not have an auto gearbox.
Edited by Pica-Pica on Friday 5th May 16:57
Pica-Pica said:
Ahbefive said:
An 8speed zf box is very good but in no way can it be described as manual.
Your 2nd from last sentence, with petrol/diesel cars, yes there will atill be larger cars with a manual box as they are far more involving for purposes of driver enjoyment. Also no, fully electric cars do not have an auto gearbox.
No the 335d is better than manual. Over the switchbacks? Knock over to M/S and use 4th gears spread of power and torque to go up down and round. Want a rapid overtake? Again, knock it to manual or use a left paddle, it will drop one or two gears and hold for 10 secs, if you go, it stays held, if not it changes to the economic revs. This 'box is fantastic. Although I did have fun in my previous E36 I6 trying to perfect clutchless gear changes. OK changing up, lift off till you judge no load on the teeth faces, snick into neutral and then up with a rev match if revs were deemed too low.Your 2nd from last sentence, with petrol/diesel cars, yes there will atill be larger cars with a manual box as they are far more involving for purposes of driver enjoyment. Also no, fully electric cars do not have an auto gearbox.
Edited by Pica-Pica on Friday 5th May 16:57
p1esk said:
As for bigger bills, I expect automatics are more expensive to repair when they go wrong, but on the other hand a persistently clumsy driver is more likely to do damage to a manual gearbox than with an automatic.
Yup, or at very least, the clutch will need replacing prematurely. I've had cars that only had 35k with a couple of clutch changes under their belt already, I've had one with 165k still on the original clutch where the bite point was still pretty much optimal. vsonix said:
p1esk said:
As for bigger bills, I expect automatics are more expensive to repair when they go wrong, but on the other hand a persistently clumsy driver is more likely to do damage to a manual gearbox than with an automatic.
Yup, or at very least, the clutch will need replacing prematurely. I've had cars that only had 35k with a couple of clutch changes under their belt already, I've had one with 165k still on the original clutch where the bite point was still pretty much optimal. On the other hand I heard of somebody who bought a new Pug 107, and he was on his third clutch by the time he'd clocked up 7,000 miles.
The behaviour of the driver can make an enormous difference to the wear rate and longevity achieved with cars, and you don't need to always be pussyfooting around to get good results.
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