Am i the only person who indicates?
Discussion
People do still exit a roundabout whilst indicating right as they somehow magically forget to flip their indicator stalk down onto the left just as they pass the exit preceding the one they want to take.
If you’re turning right on a roundabout then indicate right until just before you want to come off, then show your intent by indicating left.
If I’d been so wrong how come I’ve not had any near misses or crashes in 23 years of driving on roundabouts (particularly living in Swindon where I had 17 roundabouts each way between home and work). The only grief I tend to get is where people merrily go on their way and indicate at the last minute to signal they’re coming off.
If you’re turning right on a roundabout then indicate right until just before you want to come off, then show your intent by indicating left.
If I’d been so wrong how come I’ve not had any near misses or crashes in 23 years of driving on roundabouts (particularly living in Swindon where I had 17 roundabouts each way between home and work). The only grief I tend to get is where people merrily go on their way and indicate at the last minute to signal they’re coming off.
GerryAttrick said:
Not confused, (Your right hand indicator should STILL BE ON) does not appear in the H.C. If turning right I will normally cancel the indicator once I am on the roundabout and established in the correct lane, then signal left once necessary to change lane or exit, depending on the layout of the roundabout.
Nowhere in the quoted text does it indicate that signalling right applies to any stage after approach.
We are just reading it differently. I've re-read it carefully a number of times and still hold to my interpretation, which agrees with what I was taught. I do see people indicating right while negotiating a roundabout, and treat them with caution as I have observed a significant number that exit the roundabout while still signalling right!
You don’t need to read the text, the picture still shows the car indicating right whilst on the roundabout until just before the exit it wants to take. If I’m wrong then so is the Highway Code and you need to take it up with them sir. Nowhere in the quoted text does it indicate that signalling right applies to any stage after approach.
We are just reading it differently. I've re-read it carefully a number of times and still hold to my interpretation, which agrees with what I was taught. I do see people indicating right while negotiating a roundabout, and treat them with caution as I have observed a significant number that exit the roundabout while still signalling right!
Quote. You don’t need to read the text, the picture still shows the car indicating right whilst on the roundabout until just before the exit it wants to take. If I’m wrong then so is the Highway Code and you need to take it up with them sir. /Quote
Actually the picture does not show a right indication on the roundabout, only on the approach. What it leaves out is at what point to cancel any approach signal, except in the case of a left turn when it should be maintained through the manoeuvre.
We could argue for a long time, so I'll leave it there and wish all continued safe passage.
Actually the picture does not show a right indication on the roundabout, only on the approach. What it leaves out is at what point to cancel any approach signal, except in the case of a left turn when it should be maintained through the manoeuvre.
We could argue for a long time, so I'll leave it there and wish all continued safe passage.
GerryAttrick said:
If turning right I will normally cancel the indicator once I am on the roundabout and established in the correct lane, then signal left once necessary to change lane or exit, depending on the layout of the roundabout.
Do you often find that "lunatics" pull out in front of you whilst on roundabouts?People waiting at 12 are not aware of any road markings you have at your 6 o'clock entry which tells you which is the correct lane. They don't know whether there are road markings for using the left lane to go right, right lane to go straight ahead or left, or both lanes for straight ahead etc.
The only way you can tell them which way you're intending on going is through the use of an indicator.
IcedKiwi said:
Do you often find that "lunatics" pull out in front of you whilst on roundabouts?
People waiting at 12 are not aware of any road markings you have at your 6 o'clock entry which tells you which is the correct lane. They don't know whether there are road markings for using the left lane to go right, right lane to go straight ahead or left, or both lanes for straight ahead etc.
The only way you can tell them which way you're intending on going is through the use of an indicator.
Actually, cannot recall this ever happening. If it started to become a regular event I would certainly reconsider my approach.People waiting at 12 are not aware of any road markings you have at your 6 o'clock entry which tells you which is the correct lane. They don't know whether there are road markings for using the left lane to go right, right lane to go straight ahead or left, or both lanes for straight ahead etc.
The only way you can tell them which way you're intending on going is through the use of an indicator.
Normally I will be positioned so as to make my intention clear irrespective of any markings on the entry. And I always give an exit signal in the space between the last and intended exit, whether going left, right or straight on.
GerryAttrick said:
IcedKiwi said:
Do you often find that "lunatics" pull out in front of you whilst on roundabouts?
People waiting at 12 are not aware of any road markings you have at your 6 o'clock entry which tells you which is the correct lane. They don't know whether there are road markings for using the left lane to go right, right lane to go straight ahead or left, or both lanes for straight ahead etc.
The only way you can tell them which way you're intending on going is through the use of an indicator.
Actually, cannot recall this ever happening. If it started to become a regular event I would certainly reconsider my approach.People waiting at 12 are not aware of any road markings you have at your 6 o'clock entry which tells you which is the correct lane. They don't know whether there are road markings for using the left lane to go right, right lane to go straight ahead or left, or both lanes for straight ahead etc.
The only way you can tell them which way you're intending on going is through the use of an indicator.
Normally I will be positioned so as to make my intention clear irrespective of any markings on the entry. And I always give an exit signal in the space between the last and intended exit, whether going left, right or straight on.
Well, I am surprised. But as long as you "Time your signals so as not to confuse other road users", we will all be OK. I have a roundabout near me. On the approach, it is downhill, very grassy centre, and you cannot see vehicles approaching at 12 o clock. The layout is (if I am at 6 o clock) 6, 8 and 12 o clock. People frequently arrive from 12 o clock and are hidden beyond the central grass, and then it is anyone's guess whether they are turning off at (my) 6 o clock position, or going round to 8 o clock. People going straight on to 6 o clock and those leaving at 8 o clock all hug the road close to the centre (because there is not 3 o clock exit). I am of course aware of this, but it would be nice if they were indicating right until they get level with me and cross me at 6 o clock.
This is a pet hate of mine and I've seen it decline since I started my long commute in 2014. I reckon about a fifth of drivers don't indicate at all and almost all of the remaining four fifths indicate after they've started a manoeuvre, which is of course pointless. About once or twice a week I see someone using mirror signal manoeuvre (or CMSBGA etc etc).
Hi Gerry,
The How to do roundabouts video is well worth 5 minutes of your time
Check out the animation on turning right (i.e. the third video). It shows when and where to indicate.
I reckon your current method could cause you a problem one day (for the reasons IcedKiwi mentioned).
The How to do roundabouts video is well worth 5 minutes of your time
Check out the animation on turning right (i.e. the third video). It shows when and where to indicate.I reckon your current method could cause you a problem one day (for the reasons IcedKiwi mentioned).
IcedKiwi said:
People waiting at 12 are not aware of any road markings you have at your 6 o'clock entry which tells you which is the correct lane. They don't know whether there are road markings for using the left lane to go right, right lane to go straight ahead or left, or both lanes for straight ahead etc. The only way you can tell them which way you're intending on going is through the use of an indicator.
RobM77 said:
This is a pet hate of mine and I've seen it decline since I started my long commute in 2014. I reckon about a fifth of drivers don't indicate at all and almost all of the remaining four fifths indicate after they've started a manoeuvre, which is of course pointless. About once or twice a week I see someone using mirror signal manoeuvre (or CMSBGA etc etc).
How do you know they have done the 'mirror' bit?SVS, Thanks for taking the time to post the roundabout signalling piece. Very interesting and almost but not quite the same as in the Highway Code.
The method described is fine for most purposes, but at risk of taking up your time I would like to expand on my approach. I've been monitoring what I actually do since the original post, so here goes (tin helmet on):
My signalling will depend on the size, layout and traffic on the roundabout.
Where I am turning right I signal right on approach and maintain the signal until I am established in position on the roundabout, when I cancel, then signal left on passing the junction before the one I wish to take. If the roundabout is small the gap between right and left signal will be very small.
Where the roundabout is larger, the gap will be longer, and if the roundabout has defined lanes I will normally not signal while remaining in a lane - reserving the signal to indicate that I am changing lane - some roundabout layouts make this necessary so it is not bad planning to do this. It follows that I may signal left to move into an outer lane, cancel for a short while and then signal left again to indicate I am taking the next exit.
For straight on and left my signalling follows the illustration and the H.C.
I have adopted the principle of treating roundabouts the same as one-way streets. Not sure now where I picked this up from as it may have been over 40 years ago. I seem to remember seeing it in Roadcraft, but may be mistaken and I no longer have a copy readily available to check. It seems logical to me, so I have not seen fit to change it.
That said, every journey is different, and I will certainly consider additional signalling where it looks like it may be helpful to someone waiting and not risk being misleading to anyone else. If I am doing a 180 on a roundabout (usually try to avoid if at all possible) then I will signal right as recommended for emphasis (but watching everyone else very carefully).
I think the danger with automatically signalling right for any exit past 12:00 has risks related to timing - always critical on roundabouts - if the cancellation is delayed then it could mislead. I think it is also of limited value as anyone waiting to join the roundabout will be blocked by me whether I am signalling or not. If I am about to move left or exit I will be signalling left. If the outer lane is free and I am in an inner lane (not signalling) it should be obvious that they can feed into the free lane and if necessary merge into the inner lane when space is available.
And as a caveat to the above, never rely on a signal as an indication of what someone else is actually going to do (always look for supporting evidence) and avoid travelling round a roundabout alongside another vehicle. Basic stuff but important.
Apologies for the length of the post, but I hope I've now made my approach clear. If anyone can suggest a scenario where a right signal would be helpful I'd be happy to consider factoring it into my behaviour. Never too old to learn (but too old to follow rules blindly).
The method described is fine for most purposes, but at risk of taking up your time I would like to expand on my approach. I've been monitoring what I actually do since the original post, so here goes (tin helmet on):
My signalling will depend on the size, layout and traffic on the roundabout.
Where I am turning right I signal right on approach and maintain the signal until I am established in position on the roundabout, when I cancel, then signal left on passing the junction before the one I wish to take. If the roundabout is small the gap between right and left signal will be very small.
Where the roundabout is larger, the gap will be longer, and if the roundabout has defined lanes I will normally not signal while remaining in a lane - reserving the signal to indicate that I am changing lane - some roundabout layouts make this necessary so it is not bad planning to do this. It follows that I may signal left to move into an outer lane, cancel for a short while and then signal left again to indicate I am taking the next exit.
For straight on and left my signalling follows the illustration and the H.C.
I have adopted the principle of treating roundabouts the same as one-way streets. Not sure now where I picked this up from as it may have been over 40 years ago. I seem to remember seeing it in Roadcraft, but may be mistaken and I no longer have a copy readily available to check. It seems logical to me, so I have not seen fit to change it.
That said, every journey is different, and I will certainly consider additional signalling where it looks like it may be helpful to someone waiting and not risk being misleading to anyone else. If I am doing a 180 on a roundabout (usually try to avoid if at all possible) then I will signal right as recommended for emphasis (but watching everyone else very carefully).
I think the danger with automatically signalling right for any exit past 12:00 has risks related to timing - always critical on roundabouts - if the cancellation is delayed then it could mislead. I think it is also of limited value as anyone waiting to join the roundabout will be blocked by me whether I am signalling or not. If I am about to move left or exit I will be signalling left. If the outer lane is free and I am in an inner lane (not signalling) it should be obvious that they can feed into the free lane and if necessary merge into the inner lane when space is available.
And as a caveat to the above, never rely on a signal as an indication of what someone else is actually going to do (always look for supporting evidence) and avoid travelling round a roundabout alongside another vehicle. Basic stuff but important.
Apologies for the length of the post, but I hope I've now made my approach clear. If anyone can suggest a scenario where a right signal would be helpful I'd be happy to consider factoring it into my behaviour. Never too old to learn (but too old to follow rules blindly).
Edited by GerryAttrick on Saturday 5th August 00:06
Have to say there are occasions where it's not wise to continue signalling right when going all the way round a roundabout.
One such example is M5 J6 which is one of those with multiple lanes that, in theory, if you get in the correct lane and continue in that lane will eventually spiral out so that you are in the leftmost lane at your desired exit.
Therefore at some point you will still have some distance to go round the island but now there will be a lane to your right. Continuing to signal right is confusing as you don't want to move into that lane to your right, therefore I will knock the right turn signal off, and signal left when passing the exit before the one intending to be taken.
Having said all that, the method works for locals who know which lane is which, but with lots of strags from everywhere with many varied signalling systems, including not going anywhere near the indicator stalk, then being on max numpty alert at all times applies.
One such example is M5 J6 which is one of those with multiple lanes that, in theory, if you get in the correct lane and continue in that lane will eventually spiral out so that you are in the leftmost lane at your desired exit.
Therefore at some point you will still have some distance to go round the island but now there will be a lane to your right. Continuing to signal right is confusing as you don't want to move into that lane to your right, therefore I will knock the right turn signal off, and signal left when passing the exit before the one intending to be taken.
Having said all that, the method works for locals who know which lane is which, but with lots of strags from everywhere with many varied signalling systems, including not going anywhere near the indicator stalk, then being on max numpty alert at all times applies.
Is it because the supply of winker oil is drying up ?
I remember having a driving assessment for a company that I worked for ( everyone who drove company vehicles had them ) . I was told by the assessor that I indicated where it wasn't necessary. When challenged to cite the instances he couldn't.
This was about the time that people were being taught to pass the test instead of how to actually drive properly .
I remember having a driving assessment for a company that I worked for ( everyone who drove company vehicles had them ) . I was told by the assessor that I indicated where it wasn't necessary. When challenged to cite the instances he couldn't.
This was about the time that people were being taught to pass the test instead of how to actually drive properly .
GerryAttrick said:
SVS, Thanks for taking the time to post the roundabout signalling piece. Very interesting and almost but not quite the same as in the Highway Code.
The method described is fine for most purposes, but at risk of taking up your time I would like to expand on my approach. I've been monitoring what I actually do since the original post, so here goes (tin helmet on):
My signalling will depend on the size, layout and traffic on the roundabout.
Where I am turning right I signal right on approach and maintain the signal until I am established in position on the roundabout, when I cancel, then signal left on passing the junction before the one I wish to take. If the roundabout is small the gap between right and left signal will be very small.
Where the roundabout is larger, the gap will be longer, and if the roundabout has defined lanes I will normally not signal while remaining in a lane - reserving the signal to indicate that I am changing lane - some roundabout layouts make this necessary so it is not bad planning to do this. It follows that I may signal left to move into an outer lane, cancel for a short while and then signal left again to indicate I am taking the next exit.
For straight on and left my signalling follows the illustration and the H.C.
I have adopted the principle of treating roundabouts the same as one-way streets. Not sure now where I picked this up from as it may have been over 40 years ago. I seem to remember seeing it in Roadcraft, but may be mistaken and I no longer have a copy readily available to check. It seems logical to me, so I have not seen fit to change it.
That said, every journey is different, and I will certainly consider additional signalling where it looks like it may be helpful to someone waiting and not risk being misleading to anyone else. If I am doing a 180 on a roundabout (usually try to avoid if at all possible) then I will signal right as recommended for emphasis (but watching everyone else very carefully).
I think the danger with automatically signalling right for any exit past 12:00 has risks related to timing - always critical on roundabouts - if the cancellation is delayed then it could mislead. I think it is also of limited value as anyone waiting to join the roundabout will be blocked by me whether I am signalling or not. If I am about to move left or exit I will be signalling left. If the outer lane is free and I am in an inner lane (not signalling) it should be obvious that they can feed into the free lane and if necessary merge into the inner lane when space is available.
And as a caveat to the above, never rely on a signal as an indication of what someone else is actually going to do (always look for supporting evidence) and avoid travelling round a roundabout alongside another vehicle. Basic stuff but important.
Apologies for the length of the post, but I hope I've now made my approach clear. If anyone can suggest a scenario where a right signal would be helpful I'd be happy to consider factoring it into my behaviour. Never too old to learn (but too old to follow rules blindly).
Short answer - You're doing it wrong, and you'd fail a driving test in doing so.The method described is fine for most purposes, but at risk of taking up your time I would like to expand on my approach. I've been monitoring what I actually do since the original post, so here goes (tin helmet on):
My signalling will depend on the size, layout and traffic on the roundabout.
Where I am turning right I signal right on approach and maintain the signal until I am established in position on the roundabout, when I cancel, then signal left on passing the junction before the one I wish to take. If the roundabout is small the gap between right and left signal will be very small.
Where the roundabout is larger, the gap will be longer, and if the roundabout has defined lanes I will normally not signal while remaining in a lane - reserving the signal to indicate that I am changing lane - some roundabout layouts make this necessary so it is not bad planning to do this. It follows that I may signal left to move into an outer lane, cancel for a short while and then signal left again to indicate I am taking the next exit.
For straight on and left my signalling follows the illustration and the H.C.
I have adopted the principle of treating roundabouts the same as one-way streets. Not sure now where I picked this up from as it may have been over 40 years ago. I seem to remember seeing it in Roadcraft, but may be mistaken and I no longer have a copy readily available to check. It seems logical to me, so I have not seen fit to change it.
That said, every journey is different, and I will certainly consider additional signalling where it looks like it may be helpful to someone waiting and not risk being misleading to anyone else. If I am doing a 180 on a roundabout (usually try to avoid if at all possible) then I will signal right as recommended for emphasis (but watching everyone else very carefully).
I think the danger with automatically signalling right for any exit past 12:00 has risks related to timing - always critical on roundabouts - if the cancellation is delayed then it could mislead. I think it is also of limited value as anyone waiting to join the roundabout will be blocked by me whether I am signalling or not. If I am about to move left or exit I will be signalling left. If the outer lane is free and I am in an inner lane (not signalling) it should be obvious that they can feed into the free lane and if necessary merge into the inner lane when space is available.
And as a caveat to the above, never rely on a signal as an indication of what someone else is actually going to do (always look for supporting evidence) and avoid travelling round a roundabout alongside another vehicle. Basic stuff but important.
Apologies for the length of the post, but I hope I've now made my approach clear. If anyone can suggest a scenario where a right signal would be helpful I'd be happy to consider factoring it into my behaviour. Never too old to learn (but too old to follow rules blindly).
Edited by GerryAttrick on Saturday 5th August 00:06
Yes, it really p****es me off re the general lack of indication these days. The attitude appears to be, well I know where I'm going, so that's all that matters! A little common courtesy wouldn't go amiss, would it!
I do tend to over indicate, but if there's nothing behind me, or i feel no-one will benefit from my indication, then I don't.
As already stated though, we shouldn't rely on indicators incase someone has forgotten to cancel them.
I do tend to over indicate, but if there's nothing behind me, or i feel no-one will benefit from my indication, then I don't.
As already stated though, we shouldn't rely on indicators incase someone has forgotten to cancel them.
I analyse the situation and indicate as required.
I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
I don't indicate if my direction of travel is obvious, if i'm coming to a lane merge it's pretty obvious there's absolutely nowhere else I could be going, same with right/left turn only lanes.
What annoys me with indicating is when people do it incorrectly and confuse everyone around them. Indicating right to go straight over a roundabout for example, especially when i'm in the RH lane.
Also when large vehicles (4x4s vans and upwards in size) don't indicate to go around a parked car or cyclist, they just suddenly swerve out and leave you having to slam on the anchors.
I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
I don't indicate if my direction of travel is obvious, if i'm coming to a lane merge it's pretty obvious there's absolutely nowhere else I could be going, same with right/left turn only lanes.
What annoys me with indicating is when people do it incorrectly and confuse everyone around them. Indicating right to go straight over a roundabout for example, especially when i'm in the RH lane.
Also when large vehicles (4x4s vans and upwards in size) don't indicate to go around a parked car or cyclist, they just suddenly swerve out and leave you having to slam on the anchors.
Edited by lyonspride on Monday 4th September 08:38
lyonspride said:
I analyse the situation and indicate as required.
I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
I don't indicate if my direction of travel is obvious, if i'm coming to a lane merge it's pretty obvious there's absolutely nowhere else I could be going, same with right/left turn only lanes.
What annoys me with indicating is when people do it incorrectly and confuse everyone around them. Indicating right to go straight over a roundabout for example, especially when i'm in the RH lane.
Also when large vehicles (4x4s vans and upwards in size) don't indicate to go around a parked car or cyclist, they just suddenly swerve out and leave you having to slam on the anchors.
Once again please; 4x4s are not necessarily large, you fellow pistonheads surely know that. Lazy shorthand, tut-tut.I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
I don't indicate if my direction of travel is obvious, if i'm coming to a lane merge it's pretty obvious there's absolutely nowhere else I could be going, same with right/left turn only lanes.
What annoys me with indicating is when people do it incorrectly and confuse everyone around them. Indicating right to go straight over a roundabout for example, especially when i'm in the RH lane.
Also when large vehicles (4x4s vans and upwards in size) don't indicate to go around a parked car or cyclist, they just suddenly swerve out and leave you having to slam on the anchors.
Edited by lyonspride on Monday 4th September 08:38
Edited by Pica-Pica on Monday 4th September 19:13
lyonspride said:
I analyse the situation and indicate as required.
I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
Slight issue with your logic on the lack of indication when returning to L1. I wouldn't apply a blanket rule myself.I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
When you moved from L1 to L2, you completed that manoeuvre. So when it's appropriate to move back to L1, re-assess whether a signal is of benefit and MSM begins again....
Wardy5 said:
lyonspride said:
I analyse the situation and indicate as required.
I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
Slight issue with your logic on the lack of indication when returning to L1. I wouldn't apply a blanket rule myself.I don't indicate to complete an overtake. remember it's "mirror, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal", that applies to motorways as well as normal A roads.
When you moved from L1 to L2, you completed that manoeuvre. So when it's appropriate to move back to L1, re-assess whether a signal is of benefit and MSM begins again....
Moving back to L1 is usually classed as another manoeuvre. It's useful to signal for many reasons:1) You may not have spotted a motorbike hanging on your inside blindspot that plans to overtake you.
2) The guy you're passing may have suddenly decided to accelerate. I use cruise control at 70mph and this happens to me a surprising amount, probably because by overtaking someone it wakes them up and makes them realise they're only doing 65...
3) A guy up ahead may be considering joining the motorway or dual carriageway and he's worked out he can easily get in front of the 56mph lorry, but not you at 70mph, so he needs to know if you're staying out or coming back in. You may not have spotted him because he might not be indicating, or it might be an obscure sliproad.
If none of the above could possibly apply, so be it, but quite often one of the above could apply. I just always indicate anyway; it covers me in case I've made a mistake in my observation.
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