Advanced / Police Driver Training
Discussion
Yes well said Johnao, it is supposed to be an Advanced driving forum but as in most forums there are idiots who have clearly little or no knowledge of the subject we are supposed to be discussing,and get themselves all wound up to the extent they get personal, calling people dinosaurs, old men, gardening/Alan Titsmarsh fans. What this has to do with Advanced driving I can’t see. They throw stupid inaccurate statistics out and generally attempt to baffle us. Who knows Alan Titchmarsh may well be a very good driver!
I undertook my Avanced course in April 1980 and in my final drive got 91%, Class 1. I was recommended to apply to be an instructor and applied in 1985 getting the job. I passed the Instructors course which someone on the forum will probably appreciate is on a whole different level. At the driving school we occasionally had an intake of Chinese Police Officers coming to be trained as it was considered to be the best driving school in the World. Since retiring I have instructed on the Nurburgring in Germany for a period of time on two and four wheels so I think I know how to drive but also appreciate that there are better drivers out there and I don’t like gardening!
These idiots on the forum referring to dinosaurs or whatever probably think that the modern FI drivers are the best as opposed to the older ones. Of course Lewis Hamilton’s car is more powerful but do you really think he’s better than Surtees, Moss, Fangio, Clark, Senna, Mansell, Schumacher, Prost who are clearly just old dinosaurs!
I undertook my Avanced course in April 1980 and in my final drive got 91%, Class 1. I was recommended to apply to be an instructor and applied in 1985 getting the job. I passed the Instructors course which someone on the forum will probably appreciate is on a whole different level. At the driving school we occasionally had an intake of Chinese Police Officers coming to be trained as it was considered to be the best driving school in the World. Since retiring I have instructed on the Nurburgring in Germany for a period of time on two and four wheels so I think I know how to drive but also appreciate that there are better drivers out there and I don’t like gardening!
These idiots on the forum referring to dinosaurs or whatever probably think that the modern FI drivers are the best as opposed to the older ones. Of course Lewis Hamilton’s car is more powerful but do you really think he’s better than Surtees, Moss, Fangio, Clark, Senna, Mansell, Schumacher, Prost who are clearly just old dinosaurs!
Edited by M Barrett on Monday 18th December 19:43
Barrett Holmes, If you are, as you claim, an ex-police instructor, then you’re well placed to make some extremely useful & informative contributions to this forum.
I’m sure many would like to read about your experiences & instructional methods, your views on Roadcraft & the system of car control, your explanations of vehicle balance, observations & planning.
To date, all I’ve read are some semi-senile ramblings which I cannot help but read to myself in the voice of Uncle Albert prefixed by “during the war”.
So come on - you’ve got our attention. Write something about driving.
And if you are an ex police instructor, what colour is the boathouse at Hereford?
I’m sure many would like to read about your experiences & instructional methods, your views on Roadcraft & the system of car control, your explanations of vehicle balance, observations & planning.
To date, all I’ve read are some semi-senile ramblings which I cannot help but read to myself in the voice of Uncle Albert prefixed by “during the war”.
So come on - you’ve got our attention. Write something about driving.
And if you are an ex police instructor, what colour is the boathouse at Hereford?
Here we go, now I have someone suggesting that I may well have not been an instructor on the Advanced car course in 2005! I have a lot of driving qualifications and experience but even I cannot provide useful advice to improve someones driving on a rather ridiculous forum and nor would I want to as it would no doubt attract a load more rather derogatory comments.
Bit of advice, the easiest way to improve your driving is to get hold of a copy of Road craft, read it and inwardly digest the contents ‘The system of car control’ etc then go find a good long series of varied roads and practice. Maybe once you are confident throw a commentary in as you go as this will help you apply the system, seeing more hazards earlier and reacting. A phrase I think is always good to remember is ‘ the expert driver, although alert he gives the impression of being completely relaxed’ I’m throwing this in for those so called authors on the forum. Don’t worry yourself too much with the balance of the car etc, 50/50 front/rear would be ideal but even this is bull s
t as the Porsche 911 is certainly not and is possibly the best drivers car out there!
Don’t worry yourself about reading too much rubbish published on driving by ex police drivers as you usually find that they were always second rate drivers in the job, usually Class 2’s but just loved driving sometimes even volunteering for driver related admin duties. Most nicks had one and all the ex Police on the forum will know exactly what I mean!! They were also so fed up and frustrated when applications came out in orders for squad drivers but they would only take 1’s! We used to get plenty of entertainment out of that.
Anyway that’s enough waffling from me, you have probably gone to sleep.
Oh and the Boat house, you don’t know!
Bit of advice, the easiest way to improve your driving is to get hold of a copy of Road craft, read it and inwardly digest the contents ‘The system of car control’ etc then go find a good long series of varied roads and practice. Maybe once you are confident throw a commentary in as you go as this will help you apply the system, seeing more hazards earlier and reacting. A phrase I think is always good to remember is ‘ the expert driver, although alert he gives the impression of being completely relaxed’ I’m throwing this in for those so called authors on the forum. Don’t worry yourself too much with the balance of the car etc, 50/50 front/rear would be ideal but even this is bull s
t as the Porsche 911 is certainly not and is possibly the best drivers car out there! Don’t worry yourself about reading too much rubbish published on driving by ex police drivers as you usually find that they were always second rate drivers in the job, usually Class 2’s but just loved driving sometimes even volunteering for driver related admin duties. Most nicks had one and all the ex Police on the forum will know exactly what I mean!! They were also so fed up and frustrated when applications came out in orders for squad drivers but they would only take 1’s! We used to get plenty of entertainment out of that.
Anyway that’s enough waffling from me, you have probably gone to sleep.
Oh and the Boat house, you don’t know!
Mr Barrett, you surely know that VH and Reg Local were both advanced instructors, and that both have for many years been contributing high quality advice and information on advanced driving online. Mr Playtent is almost certainly a long term Class 1. Why are you struggling so hard to fall out with all of them?
waremark said:
Mr Barrett, you surely know that VH and Reg Local were both advanced instructors, and that both have for many years been contributing high quality advice and information on advanced driving online. Mr Playtent is almost certainly a long term Class 1. Why are you struggling so hard to fall out with all of them?
Waremark, what happen to me having 'for many years been contributing high quality advice and information on advanced driving online'?Thanks
playtent said:
waremark said:
Mr Barrett, you surely know that VH and Reg Local were both advanced instructors, and that both have for many years been contributing high quality advice and information on advanced driving online. Mr Playtent is almost certainly a long term Class 1. Why are you struggling so hard to fall out with all of them?
Waremark, what happen to me having 'for many years been contributing high quality advice and information on advanced driving online'?Thanks
Mr Playtent, actually I have heard that you are a fine chap and that it is a pleasure to go driving with you, so if you ever feel like going for a drive over my way (Hertfordshire) let me know.
Hmm. Surely all of this could be resolved over a nice cup of tea.
As I have mentioned on another thread, similar debates have taken place in my profession over the years regarding standards, training etc.
This forum is, as mentioned above, for discussion of advanced driving. Threads can and should go off tangent, but this one seems to have seriously degenerated into an acromonious one about police driver training and standards. I think we should respect the resources and landscape the police are facing now; it's not going to look like the 1980s or 1970s. Drivers interested in improving their skills come here to learn from those with experience. It's refreshing that people are interested in driving and in my view cementing a different perspective on driving into the minds of modern motorists would do more to save lives than many other strategies.
Let's harness the knowledge of all, including the "dinosaurs". I can read between the lines and recognise M Barrett as someone who does know a lot about advanced driving (i.e not a stooge/uninformed troll) but there's no point in coming here with nothing to contribute other than stating superiority, which may be somewhat misplaced when put into the relevant context.
M Barrett - were you at Hendon with John Lyon by any chance? Your experience sounds similar. If you are in fact JL then I'll have to commend you on your new found ability to use a computer and then bash your hands with a ruler for being a cantakerous old bugger.
As I have mentioned on another thread, similar debates have taken place in my profession over the years regarding standards, training etc.
This forum is, as mentioned above, for discussion of advanced driving. Threads can and should go off tangent, but this one seems to have seriously degenerated into an acromonious one about police driver training and standards. I think we should respect the resources and landscape the police are facing now; it's not going to look like the 1980s or 1970s. Drivers interested in improving their skills come here to learn from those with experience. It's refreshing that people are interested in driving and in my view cementing a different perspective on driving into the minds of modern motorists would do more to save lives than many other strategies.
Let's harness the knowledge of all, including the "dinosaurs". I can read between the lines and recognise M Barrett as someone who does know a lot about advanced driving (i.e not a stooge/uninformed troll) but there's no point in coming here with nothing to contribute other than stating superiority, which may be somewhat misplaced when put into the relevant context.
M Barrett - were you at Hendon with John Lyon by any chance? Your experience sounds similar. If you are in fact JL then I'll have to commend you on your new found ability to use a computer and then bash your hands with a ruler for being a cantakerous old bugger.
DocSteve said:
M Barrett - were you at Hendon with John Lyon by any chance? Your experience sounds similar. If you are in fact JL then I'll have to commend you on your new found ability to use a computer and then bash your hands with a ruler for being a cantakerous old bugger.
M Barrett is unlikely to be the one and only John Lyon. M Barrett wrote... "Just a quick one, I don’t wish to upset people but the Met Police Advanced course is now a very diluted affair. I did my Police Advanced Course in 1980 Driving a Rover P6 over a period of six weeks based at Hendon. The first four being being trained to a high level then back on division divisional driving the wireless car or as they now call it the area car I believe,"...
Taking M Barrett's statement at face value, and I have no reason not to, I would conclude that he is not John Lyon. JL was never a police officer and therefore wouldn't have driven operationally. He was a civilian instructor at Hendon from 1969 to ????.
Nice post DS. No I’m not JL and don’t know him, I was in fact at Hendon and one of my instructors who tested me on my final drive was Ch Insp Croome, very knowledgable and nice man. I do apologise to anyone who feels that I have been stupid or out of order but do feel that I have had some derogatory replies to what I thought were constructive posts, all be it maybe a bit old fashioned. I am very passionate about driving and have upmost respect for anyone, Police ex Police or civilian who enjoys and strives to improve their driving.
So once again sorry for any offence to anyone and enjoy your driving.
So once again sorry for any offence to anyone and enjoy your driving.
waremark said:
Mr Barrett, you surely know that VH and Reg Local were both advanced instructors, and that both have for many years been contributing high quality advice and information on advanced driving online. Mr Playtent is almost certainly a long term Class 1. Why are you struggling so hard to fall out with all of them?
Maybe it isn't a struggle, it might be natural talent.Good evening everyone I’ve just flicked through the posts and see the post about JL being a civilian instructor at Hendon. I would just like to make it 100% clear that whilst civilians did a worthwhile job at Hendon they only ever instructed on the standard driving course which was nothing like the Advanced course. Back then you had a standard course Class 5, a week at Hendon, a week on division and back to Hendon for a week. At the end if successful you could drive a panda or GP car never (officially) in excess of the speed! I did say officially. If you did and crashed you were invariably prosecuted, banned and as one of my old colleagues who was a great Police Officer found our sacked! Then there was the van, a two day reversing practice in a Transit, Class 4. The Class 3 was a thing of the past in my day so I can’t really remember what that was. There was another two day IRU, DSU course to drive the carriers as a non advanced driver. Then came the Advanced car course, a six week affair where you passed as a class 2 with anything over 75% in your final drive or a Class 1 with 86% or more, quite rare. To be honest if this JL ever posts controversial items he should be completely ignored as he is not in a position to comment on driving. I would suggest that people on this forum who have taken the initiative to partake in the IAM or ROSPA etc are more than likely far better drivers than him. Wishing you all a very happy Christmas and prosperous New Year.
M Barrett said:
Good evening everyone I’ve just flicked through the posts and see the post about JL being a civilian instructor at Hendon. I would just like to make it 100% clear that whilst civilians did a worthwhile job at Hendon they only ever instructed on the standard driving course which was nothing like the Advanced course. Back then you had a standard course Class 5, a week at Hendon, a week on division and back to Hendon for a week. At the end if successful you could drive a panda or GP car never (officially) in excess of the speed! I did say officially. If you did and crashed you were invariably prosecuted, banned and as one of my old colleagues who was a great Police Officer found our sacked! Then there was the van, a two day reversing practice in a Transit, Class 4. The Class 3 was a thing of the past in my day so I can’t really remember what that was. There was another two day IRU, DSU course to drive the carriers as a non advanced driver. Then came the Advanced car course, a six week affair where you passed as a class 2 with anything over 75% in your final drive or a Class 1 with 86% or more, quite rare. To be honest if this JL ever posts controversial items he should be completely ignored as he is not in a position to comment on driving. I would suggest that people on this forum who have taken the initiative to partake in the IAM or ROSPA etc are more than likely far better drivers than him. Wishing you all a very happy Christmas and prosperous New Year.
Believe me I drove with JL after getting IAM and ROSPA Gold and he was a far better driver than me. I'm no expert but I'd say he's certainly in the same ballpark as police advanced drivers and instructors I've passengered with.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff