Going across mini roundabouts
Discussion
hairyben said:
Mabbs9 said:
I watched someone do this. They missed the fact that the car ahead swung wide to do a 180, cut over the roundabout then smashed into the car that was correctly on the roundabout.
no-one with at least half their faculties would do a U at a mini roundabout without anticipating it being mis-read, not that its much use after the event I guess and liability would be argueable. Problem with many mini roundabout setups is if you're too prim ie don't take at least a slice of the centre it can be read as taking the first not second exit by impatient waiting drivers.
Like others have said the majority of drivers are capable of making decisions that have laws attached to them,which are perfectly safe for me the laws assist Police , insurance companies etc make decisions on liability. If we didn’t have these laws then everyone would be able to try and argue why it was safe etc to do it, and quoting the good old sentence of “Well there is no law says that you can’t “
Generally I try to go round the spot and also instruct IAM associates to do the same. Where there could be conflict eg when taking second exit(straight on) and the is a vehicle following or one waiting to the left I put a right turn signal on just to wake them up. I still expect the follower or the one to my left to possibly pull out so am always prepared. Once they are clear about my intentions I cancel the signal and pop a left signal on to exit. As for people turning right in front of the spot. Well; they are just taking the p15s, don’t give a s
t or are just totally ignorant of the rules/guidelines and are probably the same idiots jumping red lights, stopping in cycle boxes, blocking yellow box junctions etc etc
t or are just totally ignorant of the rules/guidelines and are probably the same idiots jumping red lights, stopping in cycle boxes, blocking yellow box junctions etc etcGenerally I try to go round the spot and also instruct IAM associates to do the same. Where there could be conflict eg when taking second exit(straight on) and the is a vehicle following or one waiting to the left I put a right turn signal on just to wake them up. I still expect the follower or the one to my left to possibly pull out so am always prepared. Once they are clear about my intentions I cancel the signal and pop a left signal on to exit. As for people turning right in front of the spot. Well; they are just taking the p15s, don’t give a st or are just totally ignorant of the rules/guidelines and are probably the same idiots jumping red lights, stopping in cycle boxes, blocking yellow box junctions etc etc
t or are just totally ignorant of the rules/guidelines and are probably the same idiots jumping red lights, stopping in cycle boxes, blocking yellow box junctions etc etcSpeary8 said:
Generally I try to go round the spot and also instruct IAM associates to do the same. Where there could be conflict eg when taking second exit(straight on) and the is a vehicle following or one waiting to the left I put a right turn signal on just to wake them up. I still expect the follower or the one to my left to possibly pull out so am always prepared. Once they are clear about my intentions I cancel the signal and pop a left signal on to exit. As for people turning right in front of the spot. Well; they are just taking the p15s, don’t give a st or are just totally ignorant of the rules/guidelines and are probably the same idiots jumping red lights, stopping in cycle boxes, blocking yellow box junctions etc etc
I don't think signalling right is a good approach. I appreciate that you're an IAM observer, but to me that sort of "signalling right when you're not going right", at any roundabout or junction, can also be misconstrued. If your exit isn't past 12 o'clock, signalling right is misleading and probably not consistent with giving information. Your intention is better conveyed to other motorists by doing what everyone else is doing and passing over the roundabout, because driving over many mini-roundabouts is not inherently unsafe.t or are just totally ignorant of the rules/guidelines and are probably the same idiots jumping red lights, stopping in cycle boxes, blocking yellow box junctions etc etcI took (and passed) my IAM test this week so I'm still a newcomer to advanced driving, but I had a conversation with the examiner - who described himself as "a bit of a rebel"
- afterwards where he mentioned blinkered rule-following as one of his bugbears of IAM. His opinion was that where the roundabout was painted flat tarmac, it was sometimes safer to pass straight over because that's what other drivers would expect you to be doing, and that the aim of advanced driving should be to make progress safely rather than blindly following "the rules". I realise that it's not what the law says, but I don't see any good reason to drive around a mini-roundabout like this one, that's ostensibly there to give some degree of priority to traffic entering and leaving the car park to the left. Shared priority is more important than going around the painted bit.Unfortunately I can’t agree with your comment. Just remember that it is a moving traffic offence to drive over the spot without making any effort to go round it. Therefore if you did that in any test you should fail. Just because a lot of people ignore the rule doesn’t make it right.
Where the roundabout is tight or you are in a large vehicle you still have to make the effort to go round it but inevitabley some part of the vehicle will enter the spot.
My advice is to make every effort to go round the spot, keep a close eye on mirrors and blind spots and give helpful information to other road users where appropriate
Where the roundabout is tight or you are in a large vehicle you still have to make the effort to go round it but inevitabley some part of the vehicle will enter the spot.
My advice is to make every effort to go round the spot, keep a close eye on mirrors and blind spots and give helpful information to other road users where appropriate
For me I have seen hundreds of drivers drive across the mini roundabout rather than make an effort to go round it as it was intending. The best one I remember was approaching a mini and I had priority if any one does these days .
I knew the roundabout as I lived locally but it was out of my area,I was turning right and could see on my cross view that it was clear right but had an obscured view left were the danger always lyes at that mini,as I entered it whoosh straight acros the front of me and over the top of the roundabout came a car,I was fully liveried and she never even batted an eyelid. Off she went into the distance and I thought your not getting away with that. When stopped she said I have done nothing wrong everybody does it and that I approached too fast for her too stop.
To cut a long story short she was adamant that she was not at fault even though she was shown the video she still denied it. Then when dealing with her she said is there a course I can do .
For me this is why legislation exists as with drivers who thought it was ok to middle lane
Hog cross solid lines/hatched area as they say it’s only paint it allows for the defiant arrogant drivers to be dealt with and stops big confrontations with drivers who challenge this sort of driving on a daily basis now can have some redress if they don’t see the error of they’re way.
I knew the roundabout as I lived locally but it was out of my area,I was turning right and could see on my cross view that it was clear right but had an obscured view left were the danger always lyes at that mini,as I entered it whoosh straight acros the front of me and over the top of the roundabout came a car,I was fully liveried and she never even batted an eyelid. Off she went into the distance and I thought your not getting away with that. When stopped she said I have done nothing wrong everybody does it and that I approached too fast for her too stop.
To cut a long story short she was adamant that she was not at fault even though she was shown the video she still denied it. Then when dealing with her she said is there a course I can do .
For me this is why legislation exists as with drivers who thought it was ok to middle lane
Hog cross solid lines/hatched area as they say it’s only paint it allows for the defiant arrogant drivers to be dealt with and stops big confrontations with drivers who challenge this sort of driving on a daily basis now can have some redress if they don’t see the error of they’re way.
From an Advanced Driving perspective, you can straight-line over these if it doesn't bring you into conflict with other road users.
It the painted circle is raised quite rather than just a thick layer of thermoplastic I tend to go around rather than hit the hump at an angle is not that stable and SL is about reducing corning forces on the vehicle but making sure you still have a good view. The straightest line is the most stable.
The main thing here is making sure you don't come into conflict with any other road users. If SL is going to, go around the markings instead.
It the painted circle is raised quite rather than just a thick layer of thermoplastic I tend to go around rather than hit the hump at an angle is not that stable and SL is about reducing corning forces on the vehicle but making sure you still have a good view. The straightest line is the most stable.
The main thing here is making sure you don't come into conflict with any other road users. If SL is going to, go around the markings instead.
waremark said:
Can you really? Going round rather than over is a Highway Code must.
Yes, it is but its also taught to police and other emergency service drivers, so I believe its sound if applied correctly.When learning to drive to the DSA test I would advise you always go around the markings.
Once your experienced and ready to move your driving on then there is no reason why it can't be done safely. The clue is in title 'advanced' we are moving things on and thinking differently.
The Caveat, however, is there must not be other road users in 'circuit' on the mini or about to enter/waiting so you don't come into conflict with them.
Offside and 'straightlining' isn't in the Highway Code but its sound and can increase view, reduce cornering forces and increase driving pleasure when applied correctly.
The same principle applies to all roundabouts.
Really which emergency service teaches going over roundabouts in normal or emergency circumstances as their is no exemption for us to do so,you are told if you step outside the protection zone then you have to justify it but it is left to the individual driver to make a decision based on operational needs etc.
Stefluc said:
Really which emergency service teaches going over roundabouts in normal or emergency circumstances as their is no exemption for us to do so,you are told if you step outside the protection zone then you have to justify it but it is left to the individual driver to make a decision based on operational needs etc.
Certainly, police and ambulance service do, it's not unsound, maybe less common on a mini roundabout but I see no issue when it's just a bit of paint and not in conflict with others.There is no exception but then you don't commit an offence by 'taking a bit off'. If you failed to do it on a clear roundabout then maybe careless or inconsiderate driving, maybe.
It's a very common technique for motorcyclist as their risk profile is higher when turning.
If there's no one else around, I don't think it's a major issue, but what I see constantly at one near me (it's very much one of those "used to be a T junction" types) is people steaming into it and going straight across, but the direction they're coming from is restricted from view enough that someone approaching from their left can't necessarily see them coming - the time it takes them to come into view and be crossing the centre of the roundabout is less time than it takes the person coming in from the left to have come onto the roundabout and cleared that space. And that's normal cars, not something slow.
It very much smacks of "I can do this because they should give way to the right and that means it's their fault if we collide".
If they came in a bit slower, or actually went round the roundabout a little, they'd pass behind someone who's come out from the left with plenty of space.
I kind of want one of them to go straight into the side of a skip lorry or something.
It very much smacks of "I can do this because they should give way to the right and that means it's their fault if we collide".
If they came in a bit slower, or actually went round the roundabout a little, they'd pass behind someone who's come out from the left with plenty of space.
I kind of want one of them to go straight into the side of a skip lorry or something.
If it’s tight and traffic is coming from opposite directions then it makes sense to avoid each other by going around the central markings. When the road is clear then who cares? This should be common sense anyway. What does rhexrule actually achieve? What is the justification? You could argue that cars nowadays are much bigger (especially with crossovers and SUVs being so popular) that you bypass this rule by that virtue.
In my own opinion is a stupid cut-and-dry rule that adds unnecessary wear to offside tyres and increases fuel consumption and brake wear because you have to slow down for the turn, especially in adverse conditions. Plenty of other things mentioned in the Highway Code rely on simple common sense, but why is this one an exception to that?
In my own opinion is a stupid cut-and-dry rule that adds unnecessary wear to offside tyres and increases fuel consumption and brake wear because you have to slow down for the turn, especially in adverse conditions. Plenty of other things mentioned in the Highway Code rely on simple common sense, but why is this one an exception to that?
surveyor_101 said:
waremark said:
Can you really? Going round rather than over is a Highway Code must.
Yes, it is but its also taught to police and other emergency service drivers, so I believe its sound if applied correctly.When learning to drive to the DSA test I would advise you always go around the markings.
Once your experienced and ready to move your driving on then there is no reason why it can't be done safely. The clue is in title 'advanced' we are moving things on and thinking differently.
The Caveat, however, is there must not be other road users in 'circuit' on the mini or about to enter/waiting so you don't come into conflict with them.
Offside and 'straightlining' isn't in the Highway Code but its sound and can increase view, reduce cornering forces and increase driving pleasure when applied correctly.
The same principle applies to all roundabouts.
jchesh said:
As well as there being the legal argument against this, I've noticed that at mini roundabouts near me that people habitually drive over instead of around, out of laziness (some even making a right turn by bypassing the roundabout completely and cutting across in front of it) the marking gets worn out pretty quickly and then has to be repainted far sooner than it would have been, at everyone's expense.
I also find that the people who do this are also the ones that definitely don't bother indicating at them (I'm not talking full-on roundabout style indicating, just a simple left for first exit and a right if taking an exit beyond 12 o'clock) so I tend to lump them all into the category of 'muppet'...
In some scenarios mini roundabouts are introduced purely as traffic-calming devices, and while I'm not sure how much I agree with this as an effective measure it certainly isn't so if people just charge across them without slowing down!
I admit to missing mini roundabouts when turning right, only when driving a bus. It's far easier, bus won't make it around without coming inches from a fence and picking up a pram by the handles on the way lolI also find that the people who do this are also the ones that definitely don't bother indicating at them (I'm not talking full-on roundabout style indicating, just a simple left for first exit and a right if taking an exit beyond 12 o'clock) so I tend to lump them all into the category of 'muppet'...
In some scenarios mini roundabouts are introduced purely as traffic-calming devices, and while I'm not sure how much I agree with this as an effective measure it certainly isn't so if people just charge across them without slowing down!
Edited by jchesh on Saturday 7th July 18:18
I could go over it but then it causes a massive thud, and I clear the junction a lot quicker which is better for all
To me, this is very much a classic and text book example why some law is an arse, not an ass, an arse, especially if said mini roundabout is as badly designed as this one.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5182542,-0.71483...
I obviously respect the priorities and rights of way of a mini roundabout but the design and alignment of many of them lacks any and all common sense. Anyone would think the weird-beard sandle wearing non car driving road designers were deliberately trying to make things as difficult as possible not to break the, in this instance, stupid arse law.
As for the law, it seems recently that the police are selectively enforcing it, so I would obviously ask, ergo, if it is ok to selectively ignore some of them, it seems only fair? If only the police selectively ignored the really pointless and trivial stuff, like driving over mini roundabouts. But I guess quotas will not be met and those boxes are not going to tick themselves.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5182542,-0.71483...
I obviously respect the priorities and rights of way of a mini roundabout but the design and alignment of many of them lacks any and all common sense. Anyone would think the weird-beard sandle wearing non car driving road designers were deliberately trying to make things as difficult as possible not to break the, in this instance, stupid arse law.
As for the law, it seems recently that the police are selectively enforcing it, so I would obviously ask, ergo, if it is ok to selectively ignore some of them, it seems only fair? If only the police selectively ignored the really pointless and trivial stuff, like driving over mini roundabouts. But I guess quotas will not be met and those boxes are not going to tick themselves.
Unfortunately I can’t agree with your comment. Just remember that it is a moving traffic offence to drive over the spot without making any effort to go round it. Therefore if you did that in any test you should fail. Just because a lot of people ignore the rule doesn’t make it right.
Where the roundabout is tight or you are in a large vehicle you still have to make the effort to go round it but inevitabley some part of the vehicle will enter the spot.
My advice is to make every effort to go round the spot, keep a close eye on mirrors and blind spots and give helpful information to other road users where appropriate
Where the roundabout is tight or you are in a large vehicle you still have to make the effort to go round it but inevitabley some part of the vehicle will enter the spot.
My advice is to make every effort to go round the spot, keep a close eye on mirrors and blind spots and give helpful information to other road users where appropriate
surveyor_101 said:
From an Advanced Driving perspective, you can straight-line over these if it doesn't bring you into conflict with other road users.
It the painted circle is raised quite rather than just a thick layer of thermoplastic I tend to go around rather than hit the hump at an angle is not that stable and SL is about reducing corning forces on the vehicle but making sure you still have a good view. The straightest line is the most stable.
The main thing here is making sure you don't come into conflict with any other road users. If SL is going to, go around the markings instead.
Soooooo. By your logic, on a country road with double or single solid line, you would offside or straighten by crossing the line. That is effectively what you are doing over the mini roundabout spot. It the painted circle is raised quite rather than just a thick layer of thermoplastic I tend to go around rather than hit the hump at an angle is not that stable and SL is about reducing corning forces on the vehicle but making sure you still have a good view. The straightest line is the most stable.
The main thing here is making sure you don't come into conflict with any other road users. If SL is going to, go around the markings instead.
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