How best to 'swing' into a narrow entrance ?
Discussion
Vanordinaire said:
I was following a big 4x4 tonight along a semi rural NSL road when he indicated left but then moved to the right , fully across the centre line then slowed and turned left back across the road into a narrow lane.He wouldn't have been able to turn directly from the left lane into the narrow lane without the swing. It was ok on this occassion, I wasn't sure what he was doing, but held back anyway and waited till he finished whatever manoeuvre he was trying to make.
It was a pretty messy manoeuvre. but I'm not sure what he could have done to do it more safely/tidily and better indicate his intentions.
1. Pull in and stop before the junction, wait for traffic to clear completely, then make the manoeuvre?
2. Indicate right before crossing over the road, then left to cross back into the lane?
3. Hazard lights on and make the manoeuvre with them on ?
4. Something else?
Supposing the move out to the right is necessary, I would suggest to move out before putting the left indicator on would be safest. This comes from a few years of driving big slow tractors and trailers - first hint of a left indicator from a tractor and a worrying percentage of the population initiate a blind overtake. A swing out to the right with the car in your blind spot then wouldn't be ideal.It was a pretty messy manoeuvre. but I'm not sure what he could have done to do it more safely/tidily and better indicate his intentions.
1. Pull in and stop before the junction, wait for traffic to clear completely, then make the manoeuvre?
2. Indicate right before crossing over the road, then left to cross back into the lane?
3. Hazard lights on and make the manoeuvre with them on ?
4. Something else?
Jambo85 said:
Supposing the move out to the right is necessary, I would suggest to move out before putting the left indicator on would be safest. This comes from a few years of driving big slow tractors and trailers - first hint of a left indicator from a tractor and a worrying percentage of the population initiate a blind overtake. A swing out to the right with the car in your blind spot then wouldn't be ideal.
Indeed.Mate of mine was talking about this the other day. He favours two flashes of the hazards, moved right, indicator on, turn. Obviously having slowed down and had a good look round for incoming traffic, motorbikes,etc.
Daniel
You could consider driving PAST the turning and stopping.
When traffic free in both directions you could reverse back, applying full steering lock to swing across to the other side of the road, then straight forwards into the turning.
Stopping allows you to wait until a suitably free gap in traffic, reversing gives you a greater "nose swing".
When traffic free in both directions you could reverse back, applying full steering lock to swing across to the other side of the road, then straight forwards into the turning.
Stopping allows you to wait until a suitably free gap in traffic, reversing gives you a greater "nose swing".
dhutch said:
Jambo85 said:
Supposing the move out to the right is necessary, I would suggest to move out before putting the left indicator on would be safest. This comes from a few years of driving big slow tractors and trailers - first hint of a left indicator from a tractor and a worrying percentage of the population initiate a blind overtake. A swing out to the right with the car in your blind spot then wouldn't be ideal.
Indeed.Mate of mine was talking about this the other day. He favours two flashes of the hazards, moved right, indicator on, turn. Obviously having slowed down and had a good look round for incoming traffic, motorbikes,etc.
Daniel
Slow, apply brake lights, release pedal. Move to right, apply and release brakes, indicate. Brake more if needed then turn.
The idea of showing brake lights early is to alert the follower something is happening, so the idea is to cause them to be aware - not exactly confused, just aware. Tray also to indicate without brake lights on, so that the indicators are clear. I always prefer to initially indicate without brake lights showing.
The idea of showing brake lights early is to alert the follower something is happening, so the idea is to cause them to be aware - not exactly confused, just aware. Tray also to indicate without brake lights on, so that the indicators are clear. I always prefer to initially indicate without brake lights showing.
BOR said:
You could consider driving PAST the turning and stopping.
When traffic free in both directions you could reverse back, applying full steering lock to swing across to the other side of the road, then straight forwards into the turning.
Stopping allows you to wait until a suitably free gap in traffic, reversing gives you a greater "nose swing".
I do multi drop deliveries to residential properties. This is what I do 9 times out of 10. Mainly because most houses don't have turning space for a LWB luton at the top of their driveways. Going in backwards to me is always a much safer bet than coming out backwards (completely blind in a box van).When traffic free in both directions you could reverse back, applying full steering lock to swing across to the other side of the road, then straight forwards into the turning.
Stopping allows you to wait until a suitably free gap in traffic, reversing gives you a greater "nose swing".
However telegraphing your intent to do this I find difficult, generally I indicate in the direction of the driveway well in advance. Slow to low speed as I approach the driveway, as I pass the driveway assume my 'f
k you I'm a van' road position blocking both sides of the road with my back end about 2m in front of the driveway & hazards on, then begin reversing in, making sure I've left enough space for my front to swing.Personally I used to try and let traffic already behind me pass by stopping short of the drive, hazards on, but experience has shown that generally I can complete my maneuver and be out the way in the time it takes for 1 or 2 cars to get passed. That being said most people seem to give you the benefit of the doubt more often when a large liveried delivery van starts doing wierd s
t in the middle of the road than they would another car. Yes I mean obviously if the entrance is a driveway that doesnt have room to turn around in, then you reverse into it.
My assumption from the OP is that it was a farm track or the like, as he said lane, and while reversing is bang on for a car or van into a driveway its going to work less well for a 45ft flatbad full of hay on a dolly behind a tractor.
Daniel
My assumption from the OP is that it was a farm track or the like, as he said lane, and while reversing is bang on for a car or van into a driveway its going to work less well for a 45ft flatbad full of hay on a dolly behind a tractor.
Daniel
Car-Matt said:
If you cant get in the turning without using the rh lane to swing out into simply approach from the other direction. In the example given by S100HP there is no need to swing into the rh lane if using appropriate speed of car and hands
That raises the question, why? Why would you go all the way along the road to turn around, when you can just swing out briefly. Also being as I have seen a LOT of driveways I can tell you sometimes that latter fact isn't true, driveways that angle to the road at a 45degree angle with 2.5m wide gateposts, even in a small car you would struggle to get around approaching from the wrong direction and not adjusting your road position. Swinging out in to a clear oncoming lane (assuming reasonable visibility) causes next to know disruption to traffic flow. The only situation I'd agree with you is if you are in a particularly large vehicle that is going to struggle even using the whole road, or if there is low visbility of oncoming traffic at that particular driveway.
caelite said:
Car-Matt said:
If you cant get in the turning without using the rh lane to swing out into simply approach from the other direction. In the example given by S100HP there is no need to swing into the rh lane if using appropriate speed of car and hands
That raises the question, why? Why would you go all the way along the road to turn around, when you can just swing out briefly. Also being as I have seen a LOT of driveways I can tell you sometimes that latter fact isn't true, driveways that angle to the road at a 45degree angle with 2.5m wide gateposts, even in a small car you would struggle to get around approaching from the wrong direction and not adjusting your road position. Swinging out in to a clear oncoming lane (assuming reasonable visibility) causes next to know disruption to traffic flow. The only situation I'd agree with you is if you are in a particularly large vehicle that is going to struggle even using the whole road, or if there is low visbility of oncoming traffic at that particular driveway.
Sounds like the driver in the OP made a reasonable decision on how to do it, I'd probably want to make sure the gap left on the inside is too small for anyone to get up the inside, though, if possible.
If it's a quieter road with decent visibility in both directions, I'd be inclined to pull over a little bit further back and let following traffic past, so I can do the same manoeuvre without anyone else around to cause issue.
Assuming it's about the same distance overall, taking a route that means you approach from the other direction and make a right turn isn't the worst suggestion, either.
If it's a quieter road with decent visibility in both directions, I'd be inclined to pull over a little bit further back and let following traffic past, so I can do the same manoeuvre without anyone else around to cause issue.
Assuming it's about the same distance overall, taking a route that means you approach from the other direction and make a right turn isn't the worst suggestion, either.
Vanordinaire said:
I was following a big 4x4 tonight along a semi rural NSL road when he indicated left but then moved to the right , fully across the centre line then slowed and turned left back across the road into a narrow lane.He wouldn't have been able to turn directly from the left lane into the narrow lane without the swing. It was ok on this occassion, I wasn't sure what he was doing, but held back anyway and waited till he finished whatever manoeuvre he was trying to make.
It was a pretty messy manoeuvre. but I'm not sure what he could have done to do it more safely/tidily and better indicate his intentions.
1. Pull in and stop before the junction, wait for traffic to clear completely, then make the manoeuvre?
2. Indicate right before crossing over the road, then left to cross back into the lane?
3. Hazard lights on and make the manoeuvre with them on ?
4. Something else?
A lot of drivers do this when turning left into a regular road. A modern motoring menace. (there are exceptions for much larger vehicles).It was a pretty messy manoeuvre. but I'm not sure what he could have done to do it more safely/tidily and better indicate his intentions.
1. Pull in and stop before the junction, wait for traffic to clear completely, then make the manoeuvre?
2. Indicate right before crossing over the road, then left to cross back into the lane?
3. Hazard lights on and make the manoeuvre with them on ?
4. Something else?
Edited by nonsequitur on Wednesday 29th August 15:35
I have to do a similar manoeuvre when I go to my parent's house. Devon villages have plenty of very narrow lanes!
I don't find it an issue at all.
Slow down in advance of the turning point
Check that the RH lane is clear
Move out to the right (to roughly straddle centre line) and indicate to the left
Check left mirror for any car/bike coming up the inside (has never happened yet in 10 years of doing this)
Turn left into lane
Whole process takes about 5 seconds
I don't find it an issue at all.
Slow down in advance of the turning point
Check that the RH lane is clear
Move out to the right (to roughly straddle centre line) and indicate to the left
Check left mirror for any car/bike coming up the inside (has never happened yet in 10 years of doing this)
Turn left into lane
Whole process takes about 5 seconds
Car-Matt said:
If it introduces any doubt to other road users of your intentions then IMO you are taking a risk that you needn't, if there is no doubt then fine .......but as the OP has doubts of the best approach and the wide range of answers given suggests that it does give doubt?
Ok, I can see that, but at the same time, what manner of turning maneuver can you do that also doesn't create doubt? Baring in mind the context of the situation implies tight country roads, it isn't necessarily as easy as continuing on to the next roundabout or doubling back through a few junctions. Turning around may involve performing a 3 point or u turn in a side street, which I would argue is a riskier maneuver than using a greater portion of the road pulling into a road.That being said, like any potentially maneuver on the road I'd say it's important to keep an eye on how drivers around you are reacting.
If I am towing our caravan home I have a similar issue, the complication that the road is quite busy, so getting a clear bit of traffic on the right hand line can take a few seconds, which immediately further complicates the indication confusion...
If I don't have to wait for a break in the traffic I will indicate left, and myself in the middle of the road, watching the left mirror...
If I have to wait for traffic, I will indicate right to prevent traffic behind me trying to overtake, then take the middle of the road, indicating left...
I think the most important bit is the positioning...
If I don't have to wait for a break in the traffic I will indicate left, and myself in the middle of the road, watching the left mirror...
If I have to wait for traffic, I will indicate right to prevent traffic behind me trying to overtake, then take the middle of the road, indicating left...
I think the most important bit is the positioning...
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