Are brake lights at junctions the new front fog lights?

[Munter]

Boosted LS1 said:

By that logic you may as well use the handbrake and foot brake when slowing down. Just in case the foot brake fails.

If that's the quality of your logic. I'd rush home before your house falls/burns down.

Personally I'd suggest logic is using things in the way they are designed. Like I suggested. But you go for it champ.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Drive a TVR. Handbrake doesn't work, but luckily the brake lights are so dim they won't offend anybody.

If i take my foot off the brake in my Golf when stationary the brake lights stay on in auto hold. Are we saying that if I flick the P switch the brake lights go out?

[Boosted LS1]

Munter said:

Boosted LS1 said:

By that logic you may as well use the handbrake and foot brake when slowing down. Just in case the foot brake fails.

If that's the quality of your logic. I'd rush home before your house falls/burns down.

Personally I'd suggest logic is using things in the way they are designed. Like I suggested. But you go for it champ.

I'm questioning your logic. There's no need to use the foot brake and handbrake at the same time if the car's obviously stationary. Surely you can tell when there's movement.

[Pica-Pica]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Drive a TVR. Handbrake doesn't work, but luckily the brake lights are so dim they won't offend anybody.

If i take my foot off the brake in my Golf when stationary the brake lights stay on in auto hold. Are we saying that if I flick the P switch the brake lights go out?

On my BMW 335d F30 the brake lights go out if I select P at a traffic stop, as long as I have my foot off the service (foot) brake pedal. I use that mode once the car behind has stopped safely, and if I will have to wait for a while before moving away.

Edited by Pica-Pica on Wednesday 21st November 12:35

[Munter]

Boosted LS1 said:

Munter said:

Boosted LS1 said:

By that logic you may as well use the handbrake and foot brake when slowing down. Just in case the foot brake fails.

If that's the quality of your logic. I'd rush home before your house falls/burns down.

Personally I'd suggest logic is using things in the way they are designed. Like I suggested. But you go for it champ.

I'm questioning your logic. There's no need to use the foot brake and handbrake at the same time if the car's obviously stationary. Surely you can tell when there's movement.

No your not. Your suggesting something stupid to try and defend a position you want to defend but can't do it in a sensible way. Twice. (If you can feel movement, the cars not stationary, and it should be, you'd have failed at something, that could have been a success if you did it a better way).

2 systems designed either wholely or partially, to hold the car stationary, when you to remain stationary, are better than one system. Then if one is imperfect, you have a back up. No movement, when you didn't want movement and no hardship in achieving it. Why wouldn't you want that.

[Boosted LS1]

Why don't you sling an anchor out the back and use 3 systems, by your logic obviously? Using several systems is pointless when each system has it's own application. Handbrakes are for stationary vehicles, foot brakes are designed to slow the vehicle down. It's pretty obvious given the braking capacity of a footbrake what it was designed for.

[vonhosen]

Boosted LS1 said:

Why don't you sling an anchor out the back and use 3 systems, by your logic obviously? Using several systems is pointless when each system has it's own application. Handbrakes are for stationary vehicles, foot brakes are designed to slow the vehicle down. It's pretty obvious given the braking capacity of a footbrake what it was designed for.

A question for accuracy if I may.
Handbrakes don't exist on a lot of vehicles. Manufacturers now increasingly install (electronic or) Parking brakes instead.
With the definition of parked being what it is (which is not merely stationary), should they only be used when the vehicle is indeed parked & not just stationary?

[jamei303]

Perhaps when stationary at e.g. traffic lights, the safest thing to do, in case you get hit from behind, is to use the parking brake and then leave the vehicle and wait at a place of refuge away from the dangerous road until it's safe to get back in the car and drive off?

[vonhosen]

jamei303 said:

Perhaps when stationary at e.g. traffic lights, the safest thing to do, in case you get hit from behind, is to use the parking brake and then leave the vehicle and wait at a place of refuge away from the dangerous road until it's safe to get back in the car and drive off?

That's certainly the advice with prolonged stops (& even where you aren't in a live lane) e.g. the hard shoulder.
It's excessive for short stationary periods though.

[NickCW]

I think there are a lot of factors here, how long the wait is, type of junction, manual or automatic, auto-hold putting lights on etc.

To be honest I have never been bothered by someone leaving their brake lights on.

Interesting analysis on the driving, but I would wager that if you filmed 90% of the cars on the road brake lights on or not they would do something stupid..

[Boosted LS1]

vonhosen said:

Boosted LS1 said:

Why don't you sling an anchor out the back and use 3 systems, by your logic obviously? Using several systems is pointless when each system has it's own application. Handbrakes are for stationary vehicles, foot brakes are designed to slow the vehicle down. It's pretty obvious given the braking capacity of a footbrake what it was designed for.

A question for accuracy if I may.
Handbrakes don't exist on a lot of vehicles. Manufacturers now increasingly install (electronic or) Parking brakes instead.
With the definition of parked being what it is (which is not merely stationary), should they only be used when the vehicle is indeed parked & not just stationary?

Thanks Von. My take is that if stationary for more then a few moments then the park function should be engaged and hopefully this will switch the brake lights off. This is when you would normally use a mechanical handbrake if fitted.

I don't know much about autos but believe some people sit in drive and ride the brakes hence the lights remaining on.

[Pica-Pica]

vonhosen said:

Boosted LS1 said:

Why don't you sling an anchor out the back and use 3 systems, by your logic obviously? Using several systems is pointless when each system has it's own application. Handbrakes are for stationary vehicles, foot brakes are designed to slow the vehicle down. It's pretty obvious given the braking capacity of a footbrake what it was designed for.

A question for accuracy if I may.
Handbrakes don't exist on a lot of vehicles. Manufacturers now increasingly install (electronic or) Parking brakes instead.
With the definition of parked being what it is (which is not merely stationary), should they only be used when the vehicle is indeed parked & not just stationary?

Handbrakes have not existed for a long time in the automotive engineering world. They have always been called parking brakes.

[CaptainSensib1e]

NickCW said:

To be honest I have never been bothered by someone leaving their brake lights on.

+1

I had never even given it a second thought until I read this thread. I suspect that also applies to the vast majority of the motoring public. I do use a handbrake where appropriate, but if I'm in slow moving traffic or waiting at a roundabout I'm not going to stress about using the handbrake and whether that makes me a bad driver.

Also don't get the concerns around the lights being too bright. If a moving car in front of you brakes how do you cope? You have to accept that if you drive in the UK you'll spend a lot of time looking at fully lit up brake lights.

[RobM77]

CaptainSensib1e said:

NickCW said:

To be honest I have never been bothered by someone leaving their brake lights on.

+1

I had never even given it a second thought until I read this thread. I suspect that also applies to the vast majority of the motoring public. I do use a handbrake where appropriate, but if I'm in slow moving traffic or waiting at a roundabout I'm not going to stress about using the handbrake and whether that makes me a bad driver.

Also don't get the concerns around the lights being too bright. If a moving car in front of you brakes how do you cope? You have to accept that if you drive in the UK you'll spend a lot of time looking at fully lit up brake lights.

I was listening to a science programme on Radio 4 recently that had a feature on eyesight, and apparently people's sensitivity to light varies enormously.

[Boosted LS1]

Thing is, brake lights were there to warn motorists behind that you are slowing down. Nobody needs to be warned of anything once you're stationary in a queue. The last car could maybe be helpful and apply the brakes until a car arrived behind, I can see the logic there but it's not something I'd do. If there's a hazard then you have hazard warning lights.

[RobM77]

Boosted LS1 said:

Thing is, brake lights were there to warn motorists behind that you are slowing down. Nobody needs to be warned of anything once you're stationary in a queue. The last car could maybe be helpful and apply the brakes until a car arrived behind, I can see the logic there but it's not something I'd do. If there's a hazard then you have hazard warning lights.

I frequently hold the brake lights on until the car behind has stopped - this is especially salient these days when the ubiquity of ABS seems to have meant most people brake very late and increase the brake pressure force as they brake. I think this is a good technique for safety. Once they've stopped behind me though, I release the brake pedal, because I think it's rude to shine a bright light in someone's eyes.

[henrycrun]

Tis a problem. I resort to using my sun visor after dark when queuing.

[RobM77]

henrycrun said:

Tis a problem. I resort to using my sun visor after dark when queuing.

Your sun visor goes that low?! Crikey.

[Liquid Knight]

RobM77 said:

Boosted LS1 said:

Thing is, brake lights were there to warn motorists behind that you are slowing down. Nobody needs to be warned of anything once you're stationary in a queue. The last car could maybe be helpful and apply the brakes until a car arrived behind, I can see the logic there but it's not something I'd do. If there's a hazard then you have hazard warning lights.

I frequently hold the brake lights on until the car behind has stopped - this is especially salient these days when the ubiquity of ABS seems to have meant most people brake very late and increase the brake pressure force as they brake. I think this is a good technique for safety. Once they've stopped behind me though, I release the brake pedal, because I think it's rude to shine a bright light in someone's eyes.

The same principal as rear fog lights. As soon as there is someone behind me I turn mine off so not to dazzle them. If there's a big enough gap between myself and whoever is behind at a junction/traffic lights/roundabout/etc I stop, apply the hand brake and when I see someone in my mirrors apply the brake lights again. Good practice because...

1/ They should see you but if not the brake lights help.
2/ If they are completely inept and as pointed out before the handbrake may not be enough in a rear end collision so being ready for that possible eventuality by having your foot near the brake pedal can't be a bad thing.

[Boosted LS1]

I've dabbed on my brake pedal when stationary to warn others, I can see the logic in being helpful towards other road users.