Are brake lights at junctions the new front fog lights?

[marksx]

You have too much time on your hands OP.

[anonymous-user]

Trailhead said:

Interesting thread.

If I press my brake when stationary, it will stay braking even when I lift my foot away. There’s no need to use the handbrake. When I accererate the brake turns off automatically. It’s part of the automatic system with hill hold assist.

I guess this will become more common as more opt for automatics.

You better get used to it....

Mine is the same, gental push of the break pedal once stopped and the car will auto hold until I press the accelerator.
If I take my foot off or disengage the hold, the engine starts and i start to move.

Oh well never mind eh.

[Inigo Montoya]

I struggle to be bothered by this. It happens. I can’t change it. It doesn’t take too much effort to look away. There are bigger things in this world to be worried about.

I think what’s really happening here is a little bit of the old “I’m a better driver than you” syndrome. Most of us find something to grumble about in someone else’s driving because that helps us to feel perfect. We must be a brilliant driver cos just look at the silly thing they’re doing! And how we love it when someone leaves their indicator on so we can give them a self righteous flash. I’m feelng slightly priapic just thinking about it.

Some folks use their hand-brakes too much, too little or just enough. As long as they’re not affecting me I’m not going to feel entitled to pass judgement on them. Live and let live.

[RobM77]

Inigo Montoya said:

I struggle to be bothered by this. It happens. I can’t change it. It doesn’t take too much effort to look away. There are bigger things in this world to be worried about.

I think what’s really happening here is a little bit of the old “I’m a better driver than you” syndrome. Most of us find something to grumble about in someone else’s driving because that helps us to feel perfect. We must be a brilliant driver cos just look at the silly thing they’re doing! And how we love it when someone leaves their indicator on so we can give them a self righteous flash. I’m feelng slightly priapic just thinking about it.

Some folks use their hand-brakes too much, too little or just enough. As long as they’re not affecting me I’m not going to feel entitled to pass judgement on them. Live and let live.

That explains well why you shouldn’t pass judgement, but what about people that it does affect? People who find brake lights hurt their eyes? Do they not have a right to criticise the selfish drivers who do that?

[Boosted LS1]

^ If you read just up a tad you can see the problem. People who leave the car in auto hold because it's the easier option. They don't need to do it but do. Knowing full well that the brake lights are illuminated for extended periods.

It's everybody's choice what to do when stopped and not braking but if the lights weren't so bright or switched off after a few moments then none of this would matter.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 21st November 19:59

[jamei303]

RobM77 said:

That explains well why you shouldn’t pass judgement, but what about people that it does affect? People who find brake lights hurt their eyes? Do they not have a right to criticise the selfish drivers who do that?

If brake lights hurt someone's eyes I worry about what headlights might do. Probably best for such people not to drive or operate machinery in the presence of light.

[Boosted LS1]

^ Don't be a cock. It's never nice sitting behind a set of bobby dazzlers that needn't be on.

[jamei303]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Don't be a cock. It's never nice sitting behind a set of bobby dazzlers that needn't be on.

They do need to be on with many vehicles. For example on my car if I move to P the engine restarts because it’s not intended you move out of D while driving.

But surely whether they need to be on or not should be irrelevant to the level of discomfort caused...unless the discomfort is entirely manufactured out of a sense of superiority at knowing someone else is being wrong.

I find pretending you’re a lizard basking under an infrared heat lamp helps. There is really no need to stare at the lights and wind yourself up to the extent you start raging at how your eyes are hurting.

[Boosted LS1]

If your car forces the brake lights to be on then that's clearly a manufacturers inconsideration. It's still a pain for those stuck behind you if the lights are bright.

[Tony33]

Boosted LS1 said:

If your car forces the brake lights to be on then that's clearly a manufacturers inconsideration. It's still a pain for those stuck behind you if the lights are bright.

In the US VWs with auto handbrakes originally didn't force the brake lights on. Because they were so used to people holding autos on the brakes this was considered dangerous and claims were made against VW. They subsequently changed it to force them on and this seems to be the standard adopted by all manufacturers in all markets now. It is genuinely seen as a safety factor.

[DoubleD]

If you find brake lights bright, how do you cope with headlights?

[Muddle238]

I recently got stuck in a traffic jam on the M40 due to a multiple vehicle pile-up ahead. We were stationary for about an hour and a half, so naturally most people switched their engines off. However I did observe a 5-series on my left, had his foot on the brake for the first 1hr20mins. On my right was a Scirocco, he left his foot on the brake for the full hour and a half. Now that isn't laziness, that's beyond the realms of being lazy. This sort of behaviour is well into the depths of being a brain-dead moron.

Lately I've been stuck in a fair few motorway jams for extended periods of time, following RTCs ahead. It's actually interesting to see just how long some people will leave their foot on the brake for, and what type of vehicle is the worst offender for it. So far my observations are that your grey/silver German "premium" diesel saloons, along with Qashaqaiqi/Juke types are the usual culprits for leaving their fat feet embedded into the brake pedal for all eternity.

[waremark]

Muddle238 said:

I recently got stuck in a traffic jam on the M40 due to a multiple vehicle pile-up ahead. We were stationary for about an hour and a half, so naturally most people switched their engines off. However I did observe a 5-series on my left, had his foot on the brake for the first 1hr20mins. On my right was a Scirocco, he left his foot on the brake for the full hour and a half. Now that isn't laziness, that's beyond the realms of being lazy. This sort of behaviour is well into the depths of being a brain-dead moron.

Lately I've been stuck in a fair few motorway jams for extended periods of time, following RTCs ahead. It's actually interesting to see just how long some people will leave their foot on the brake for, and what type of vehicle is the worst offender for it. So far my observations are that your grey/silver German "premium" diesel saloons, along with Qashaqaiqi/Juke types are the usual culprits for leaving their fat feet embedded into the brake pedal for all eternity.

Have you noticed in posts above that some cars show brake lights when held stationary by brake hold or auto brake features? It is quite possible that the drivers in question did not have their feet on the brake pedal.

[Muddle238]

waremark said:

Have you noticed in posts above that some cars show brake lights when held stationary by brake hold or auto brake features? It is quite possible that the drivers in question did not have their feet on the brake pedal.

Indeed I have, but even so there's then the question raised about letting your engine idle for over an hour. Hardly good practice.

[DickyC]

coyft said:

All the things wrong in the world and you waste your time over brake lights...

Thirty volumes of trivia in the Trivial Thread in the Lounge makes this seem positively cerebral.

[Tony33]

Muddle238 said:

waremark said:

Have you noticed in posts above that some cars show brake lights when held stationary by brake hold or auto brake features? It is quite possible that the drivers in question did not have their feet on the brake pedal.

Indeed I have, but even so there's then the question raised about letting your engine idle for over an hour. Hardly good practice.

So many new cars (nothing fancy) with stop start, the driver will be sitting with the engine off with the auto handbrake on. It is just the same as putting an older non start stop manual in neutral, applying the handbrake and switching the engine off, just the car does it all for you.

[Liquid Knight]

I enjoy the tangents but the whole idea is a lot more simple.

Failure leading to other failings.

I chose the words "fail", "failure" and "failings" very deliberately because the hill (or any kind of start for that matter) with the handbrake was part of the driving test when I passed mine.

Failure to do a basic start with the handbrake to demonstrate simple control of the vehicle during the test would be five critical error points on your assessment. As you are only allowed fifteen before you fail the driving test drivers who fail to do so after passing the test are not *driving to a standard expected of a competent driver*. Personally I find it interesting to see what happens next. If anything.

Back to my original examples if they were under driving test conditions.

1/ Failure to use the handbrake when parked - 5 error points. Left lights on - none.
2/ 5 points for the handbrake. Another 5 points for jumping the line while the light was still red.
3/ 5 points for the handbrake. Test abandoned for nearly causing a collision. Fail.
4/ 5 points for the handbrake. 5 for cutting across lanes, 1 point for failing to indicate and 5 for excessive speed. Test abandoned. Fail.

We all know that like any education system some driving instructors only teach pupils how to pass the test and not how to drive. I stand by the premise that the day you pass the test is the day you start learning how to drive. While I'm not saying we should drive as if we were taking the test every day the section of the sentence I highlighted with stars is the legal definition of Due Care and Attention.

Just take a moment to honestly ask yourself...

"If I did that during a driving test would I pass?"

Back off topic. Traffic jams are fair game for moron spotting. If I'm sat for more than a few minutes going nowhere with other vehicles around me I turn my engine off. If it's cold I'll get out and put a jacket on rather than sit with the engine running and heaters on as you have no idea when you'll be on the move and near a petrol station again. People having to abandon vehicles on motorways because they have run out of fuel whilst sat in traffic add to the overall problem. I'm lucky to have never been stuck that long but I was stuck on the A1(M) due to a collision in snow for six hours and several ran out.

[RobM77]

jamei303 said:

RobM77 said:

That explains well why you shouldn’t pass judgement, but what about people that it does affect? People who find brake lights hurt their eyes? Do they not have a right to criticise the selfish drivers who do that?

If brake lights hurt someone's eyes I worry about what headlights might do. Probably best for such people not to drive or operate machinery in the presence of light.

Yes, headlights will hurt people's eyes in varying amounts, from not at all to a lot. There are ways of coping though, for example by focusing hard on the dark space where your car's going, rather than the oncoming cars to the right (in the UK) of that. Driving ability is determined by a myriad of skills and attributes that any given person may have, and I don't think one negative, as you've highlighted, is going to have much of a percentage change overall. There are of course advantages to sensitive eyes - these people may have far greater visual acuity in dim conditions than you....

[Tony33]

Liquid Knight said:

I enjoy the tangents but the whole idea is a lot more simple.

Failure leading to other failings.

I chose the words "fail", "failure" and "failings" very deliberately because the hill (or any kind of start for that matter) with the handbrake was part of the driving test when I passed mine.

The point that is being frequently made is also very simple. Many modern vehicles don't even have handbrakes like you used in your test. Many more vehicles are autos these days which you couldn't use on your test unless you wished to be limited to autos only.

You have no idea sitting watching cars with brake lights on whether they have an electronic handbrake engaged or have their foot on the brake with the engine off as the car automatically shuts it off.

Modern cars also monitor their batteries to know if it should be restarted to charge. They will also power down media systems if the car isn't running on start/stop. The chances of running out of fuel is probably less than someone sitting listening to the radio and then unable to start the car because of a lack of battery power.

Times have changed and technology has moved on.

[BertBert]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Nope, he has a valid point. Sitting on the brakes shows an element of laziness and a lack of consideration for those behind. Use the handbrake when stationary for more then a few moments. It's what it's for imo and it's a simple task to carry out.

I think it suggests neither. However that's not my point. My point was that the correlation claimed is not proven.
Bert