Are brake lights at junctions the new front fog lights?
Discussion
^ Times have changed and technology has moved on.
Yes it has but it's not needed if you can drive a car. I see a path to driver less cars because skillful driving's becoming a thing of the past. It started with cup holders and now we have park assist for those who are unable to reverse park.
Yes it has but it's not needed if you can drive a car. I see a path to driver less cars because skillful driving's becoming a thing of the past. It started with cup holders and now we have park assist for those who are unable to reverse park.
I don't see how it's "lazy" to use the footbrake while stationary in traffic - it takes more effort and concentration than using a parking brake.
It's also more considerate to those behind because these nice bright lights signal your actions very clearly, so drivers behind know exactly when you have released the brake to move off. There's also no chance of unexpected delays caused by faffing about with a ratchet lever.
It's also more considerate to those behind because these nice bright lights signal your actions very clearly, so drivers behind know exactly when you have released the brake to move off. There's also no chance of unexpected delays caused by faffing about with a ratchet lever.
Edited by jamei303 on Friday 23 November 07:02
There are two side to this arguement, and I’ll bet they’re broadly split by whether the person drives a modern automatic car or not...
I used to drive a manual - when stopping at lights it’s clearly correct to put the car into neutral so you can release the clutch. It’s also easier to pull on the handbrake and release the brake pedal than it is to keep your foot on the brake. As a result, I showed no brake lights.
Now I drive an auto, complete with auto hold. The hold even lights up a (P) symbol on the dash, albeit in green rather than red. When holding, my brake lights are on. It’s much easier and faster to do this than to put it in park, and press the parking brake button, and it’s what the manufacturer clearly intended to happen with the systems. At traffic lights, I now show brake lights.
I’ve not suddenly become a worse driver, despite now driving a BMW.
I used to drive a manual - when stopping at lights it’s clearly correct to put the car into neutral so you can release the clutch. It’s also easier to pull on the handbrake and release the brake pedal than it is to keep your foot on the brake. As a result, I showed no brake lights.
Now I drive an auto, complete with auto hold. The hold even lights up a (P) symbol on the dash, albeit in green rather than red. When holding, my brake lights are on. It’s much easier and faster to do this than to put it in park, and press the parking brake button, and it’s what the manufacturer clearly intended to happen with the systems. At traffic lights, I now show brake lights.
I’ve not suddenly become a worse driver, despite now driving a BMW.
DanL said:
There are two side to this arguement, and I’ll bet they’re broadly split by whether the person drives a modern automatic car or not...
I used to drive a manual - when stopping at lights it’s clearly correct to put the car into neutral so you can release the clutch. It’s also easier to pull on the handbrake and release the brake pedal than it is to keep your foot on the brake. As a result, I showed no brake lights.
Now I drive an auto, complete with auto hold. The hold even lights up a (P) symbol on the dash, albeit in green rather than red. When holding, my brake lights are on. It’s much easier and faster to do this than to put it in park, and press the parking brake button, and it’s what the manufacturer clearly intended to happen with the systems. At traffic lights, I now show brake lights.
I’ve not suddenly become a worse driver, despite now driving a BMW.
A 5 series?I used to drive a manual - when stopping at lights it’s clearly correct to put the car into neutral so you can release the clutch. It’s also easier to pull on the handbrake and release the brake pedal than it is to keep your foot on the brake. As a result, I showed no brake lights.
Now I drive an auto, complete with auto hold. The hold even lights up a (P) symbol on the dash, albeit in green rather than red. When holding, my brake lights are on. It’s much easier and faster to do this than to put it in park, and press the parking brake button, and it’s what the manufacturer clearly intended to happen with the systems. At traffic lights, I now show brake lights.
I’ve not suddenly become a worse driver, despite now driving a BMW.
With an F30 (3 series), just press P on the auto-gear selector, you don’t even have to move the lever, just press the P, and take foot off brake pedal, no rear brake lights are shown. I will use the parking brake lever also if on a slope. That makes for a better driver, because one can choose if one wishes to show rear brake lights or not.
DanL said:
There are two side to this arguement, and I’ll bet they’re broadly split by whether the person drives a modern automatic car or not...
I used to drive a manual - when stopping at lights it’s clearly correct to put the car into neutral so you can release the clutch. It’s also easier to pull on the handbrake and release the brake pedal than it is to keep your foot on the brake. As a result, I showed no brake lights.
Now I drive an auto, complete with auto hold. The hold even lights up a (P) symbol on the dash, albeit in green rather than red. When holding, my brake lights are on. It’s much easier and faster to do this than to put it in park, and press the parking brake button, and it’s what the manufacturer clearly intended to happen with the systems. At traffic lights, I now show brake lights.
I’ve not suddenly become a worse driver, despite now driving a BMW.
That's the first part, yes. The second part is how considerate you are to other road users... Personally I wouldn't dream of leaving my brake lights on when there's a car behind me, regardless of what car I'm in, because I consider it rude.I used to drive a manual - when stopping at lights it’s clearly correct to put the car into neutral so you can release the clutch. It’s also easier to pull on the handbrake and release the brake pedal than it is to keep your foot on the brake. As a result, I showed no brake lights.
Now I drive an auto, complete with auto hold. The hold even lights up a (P) symbol on the dash, albeit in green rather than red. When holding, my brake lights are on. It’s much easier and faster to do this than to put it in park, and press the parking brake button, and it’s what the manufacturer clearly intended to happen with the systems. At traffic lights, I now show brake lights.
I’ve not suddenly become a worse driver, despite now driving a BMW.
What annoys me is headlights of oncoming vehicles when I'm a pedestrian walking towards them on their nearside pavement.
I'd love it if all drivers switched their headlights off in street-lit areas, as there is no legal requirement to use them, only sidelights. Not going to happen though is it, so I just look away. No point getting angry about it.
I'd love it if all drivers switched their headlights off in street-lit areas, as there is no legal requirement to use them, only sidelights. Not going to happen though is it, so I just look away. No point getting angry about it.
jamei303 said:
What annoys me is headlights of oncoming vehicles when I'm a pedestrian walking towards them on their nearside pavement.
I'd love it if all drivers switched their headlights off in street-lit areas, as there is no legal requirement to use them, only sidelights. Not going to happen though is it, so I just look away. No point getting angry about it.
I want as much information out of the environment as possible - which means headlights, and if suitable, main beams.I'd love it if all drivers switched their headlights off in street-lit areas, as there is no legal requirement to use them, only sidelights. Not going to happen though is it, so I just look away. No point getting angry about it.
I have to say if its what I call a long pause I like to slip a manual in netural and rip the e-brake.
As said few years ago I ended up between and A4 and A6, both CVT Autos and found to activate stop start and hill hold feature you had to hold the footbrake. I looked into mechanically sympathy and seemed that was better than shifting from D to P and applying the handbrake each time due to wear on the transmission.
I think this is pretty standard in modern autos but it does dazzle some with your brake lights. In manuals I don't hold the footbrake, sometimes choosing a short pause which involves holding the handbrake up but not letting the button out. Long pauses I let the button out and shift to neutral.
As said few years ago I ended up between and A4 and A6, both CVT Autos and found to activate stop start and hill hold feature you had to hold the footbrake. I looked into mechanically sympathy and seemed that was better than shifting from D to P and applying the handbrake each time due to wear on the transmission.
I think this is pretty standard in modern autos but it does dazzle some with your brake lights. In manuals I don't hold the footbrake, sometimes choosing a short pause which involves holding the handbrake up but not letting the button out. Long pauses I let the button out and shift to neutral.
dvenman said:
jamei303 said:
What annoys me is headlights of oncoming vehicles when I'm a pedestrian walking towards them on their nearside pavement.
I'd love it if all drivers switched their headlights off in street-lit areas, as there is no legal requirement to use them, only sidelights. Not going to happen though is it, so I just look away. No point getting angry about it.
I want as much information out of the environment as possible - which means headlights, and if suitable, main beams.I'd love it if all drivers switched their headlights off in street-lit areas, as there is no legal requirement to use them, only sidelights. Not going to happen though is it, so I just look away. No point getting angry about it.
Modern HiD headlights can look like high beams if there is any condensation or muck (due to tailgating) on the outer covers; or if they are after market bulbs that either do not fit properly or have been fitted to a car that predates HiD bulbs. That is another example of laziness as everyone should make sure their lights and windows are clear of any condensation or frost before going on to any public road.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptons...
Drivers aids have evolved from justifiable and applaudable safety features well beyond the point of any necessity. Initially this was due to manufacturers wanting to Top Trump their competition. Volvo had three traction control settings for example; dry, wet and icy conditions. The following year Mercedes had six traction control settings and eventually the BMW M5 had getting on for a hundred different combinations of settings when all anyone with a pulse and IQ higher than a house brink needed was a simple on/off switch at most.
The last five to ten years drivers aids have been aimed at full autonomy. After all we live in a society where people swipe left or right instead of having a conversation those of us who enjoy and appreciate the skill of driving are an endangered species.
More drivers aids over the years has been a major factor in the pandemic decline in driving standards.
The auto-stop brake instead going to all the effort of taking a car out of gear and using a lever to hold it in place is the most obvious part of that iceberg. It's going to get to a point where traffic lights will not need the amber phase any more as drivers will not need the amber time to get the car in gear and prepare to go any more.
Also a consumerist attitude (note this post is Black Friday) hasn't helped the art of driving or the environment. In a world of limited resources why buy an old car you need to skill to drive when you can have a Instanew one that does most of it for you.
Sorry, going way off tangent there.
Pica-Pica said:
A 5 series?
With an F30 (3 series), just press P on the auto-gear selector, you don’t even have to move the lever, just press the P, and take foot off brake pedal, no rear brake lights are shown. I will use the parking brake lever also if on a slope. That makes for a better driver, because one can choose if one wishes to show rear brake lights or not.
6, but I'm sure they're all the same inside... Pushing P is a good point - I could do this easily, but I've a vague recollection that having it in P without the handbrake on could be bad for it. Probably a thought from automatics of old, and the auto-hold should apply the handbrake at that point anyway... It does make for a slower get away though.With an F30 (3 series), just press P on the auto-gear selector, you don’t even have to move the lever, just press the P, and take foot off brake pedal, no rear brake lights are shown. I will use the parking brake lever also if on a slope. That makes for a better driver, because one can choose if one wishes to show rear brake lights or not.
RobM77 said:
That explains well why you shouldn’t pass judgement, but what about people that it does affect? People who find brake lights hurt their eyes? Do they not have a right to criticise the selfish drivers who do that?
I'm not a religious man, but I try to live by the serenity prayer. It goes something like this - grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference.Can we stop people from using their brake lights while stationary? No, we can't. No amount of grumbling is going to make them put their handbrakes on instead.
Can we do something about it? Yes, we can. Look away. Look down at your instruments, enjoy the views of the countryside out of your side window, pause to gaze lovingly at your passenger. Whatever.
Looking at brake lights hurts my eyes too. So I don't do it. Funnily enough, looking at the sun hurts my eyes too. So I don't do that either.
Boosted LS1 said:
^ Times have changed and technology has moved on.
Yes it has but it's not needed if you can drive a car. I see a path to driver less cars because skillful driving's becoming a thing of the past. It started with cup holders and now we have park assist for those who are unable to reverse park.
Yeh we should all be double de-clutching crash gearboxes...Yes it has but it's not needed if you can drive a car. I see a path to driver less cars because skillful driving's becoming a thing of the past. It started with cup holders and now we have park assist for those who are unable to reverse park.
Inigo Montoya said:
RobM77 said:
That explains well why you shouldn’t pass judgement, but what about people that it does affect? People who find brake lights hurt their eyes? Do they not have a right to criticise the selfish drivers who do that?
Looking at brake lights hurts my eyes too. So I don't do it. Funnily enough, looking at the sun hurts my eyes too. So I don't do that either.Obviously this matter can't be resolved if manufacturers make it complicated for simple folks to hit 'the park' button or insist on making brake lights brighter then they need to be. Manufacturers seem to be a bit dim on occasions.
Lets debate it in a month or so :-)
Boosted LS1 said:
The sun isn't set at eye level in front of you, unlike an array of brake light.
Unfortunately, I frequently have to drive towards the rising sun, and return to the setting sun. In those circumstances the sun visor is of no use as the sun is so low. That is far worse than anyone’s brake lights. I try to time it to avoid this, not always possible.With regards manufacturers modifying lights, they have to meet current regulations with regards to lighting. No doubt there are/will be schemes being developed and proposed to overcome this, whether they are accepted into lighting regulations is another matter.
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