Why do so few people ‘use all of the road’?
Discussion
SOL111 said:
Monkeylegend said:
So being a member of the IAM or another advanced driving institute makes drivers more intelligent ....mmmm.
Isn't that the point with learning things we don't necessarily know?
Just reading the posts from you advanced driving guys, there seems to be more than a hint of smug superiority in that you assume you are "better" drivers and have more knowledge than us mere mortals who have not taken the advanced test.
Knowledge and skills can be gained in various ways, and just because somebody has not gone through an advanced driving course doesn't mean that they have not gained this knowledge and driving ability /skill in other ways.
Monkeylegend said:
That's knowledge not intelligence
Just reading the posts from you advanced driving guys, there seems to be more than a hint of smug superiority in that you assume you are "better" drivers and have more knowledge than us mere mortals who have not taken the advanced test.
Knowledge and skills can be gained in various ways, and just because somebody has not gone through an advanced driving course doesn't mean that they have not gained this knowledge and driving ability /skill in other ways.
I was just taking the Mick as the thread has been a bit dry, given the naysayers can't seem to acknowledge that this isn't poor driving or dangerous.Just reading the posts from you advanced driving guys, there seems to be more than a hint of smug superiority in that you assume you are "better" drivers and have more knowledge than us mere mortals who have not taken the advanced test.
Knowledge and skills can be gained in various ways, and just because somebody has not gone through an advanced driving course doesn't mean that they have not gained this knowledge and driving ability /skill in other ways.
But I'd agree that there can be a smugness (not intentional from me btw).
It works both ways though and there have been a number of accusations from those who haven't had any additional training that their opinion is right. I don't think I've said my way of driving was right (apologies if I have) but just provided the rationale for why I do it.
Each to their own, hence why I called someone a troll earlier.
nonsequitur said:
Nice parody Gary.
That could have been me, (metaphorically), as I always stick to my lane and have no trouble in safely negotiating curves and bends. I can see the road ahead and plan accordingly.
I am sure that driver heaved a sigh of relief as you sped by, legitimately, on the other side of the road, and disappeared into the distance.
That could have been me, (metaphorically), as I always stick to my lane and have no trouble in safely negotiating curves and bends. I can see the road ahead and plan accordingly.
I am sure that driver heaved a sigh of relief as you sped by, legitimately, on the other side of the road, and disappeared into the distance.
Monkeylegend said:
Just reading the posts from you advanced driving guys, there seems to be more than a hint of smug superiority in that you assume you are "better" drivers and have more knowledge than us mere mortals who have not taken the advanced test.
Knowledge and skills can be gained in various ways, and just because somebody has not gone through an advanced driving course doesn't mean that they have not gained this knowledge and driving ability /skill in other ways.
I shouldn't think people are trying to big up the advanced test. I'm not. Many of us are saying that there can be a great deal more to skilled driving than you can read in the Highway Code or need to know to pass your driving test. One way to learn a bit more is to watch videos by Reg Local! Another is to take further training, whether or not that happens to involve an advanced driving test. There is a great deal more to learn than is required to pass the advanced driving tests of Rospa ADAR or IAM Roadsmart, and neither of those organisations recommends use of the offside to extend vision (they are worried that offside positioning may be used incorrectly and reduce safety rather than increase it).Knowledge and skills can be gained in various ways, and just because somebody has not gone through an advanced driving course doesn't mean that they have not gained this knowledge and driving ability /skill in other ways.
Monkeylegend said:
akirk said:
so, I know which the 'better' approach would be (assuming of course a driver with the intelligence to do it properly...!)
So being a member of the IAM or another advanced driving institute makes drivers more intelligent ....mmmm.does being a member of anything mean that you are good at it - no, does being good at it mean that you have to be a member - no - but as with all good set theory, there can be a strong overlap...
I am sure that there are many on here who have no membership of anything and yet are good drivers - but equally it is abundantly clear that there are also those who post who have no clue - every variant of driving ability seems to exist on PH
For those who don't understand why something might be good / bad etc. because they have no experience of it / don't have the skill / haven't had the training - but yet post in black and white absolutes condemning everyone else - they just show themselves to be illogical and lacking in any form of perception - this is the Advanced Driving section of PH - there are reasons why IAM / RoSPA / etc. exist - there are reasons why the British police force drive to a high standard - there are alternative ways of driving which maybe can improve safety etc. - the cynical pessimists who think they are big by knocking everyone else just look a little bit silly
akirk said:
the cynical pessimists who think they are big by knocking everyone else just look a little bit silly
The trouble with forums like this is that you can make comments like this without having any knowledge of the abilities, skill, experience or intelligence of the people you are aiming them at Most people dont see potholes, don’t slow appropriately for speed humps and generally look ahead in a vacant non seeing way. They have only learned to operate the controls of the vehicle to get them from A to B. If they arrive at B then they are satisfied.
However some people buy nice cars and o e would imagine they like them. However they also drive like the aforementioned. This, I find hard to understand. If you like cars why don’t you like driving?
However some people buy nice cars and o e would imagine they like them. However they also drive like the aforementioned. This, I find hard to understand. If you like cars why don’t you like driving?
Monkeylegend said:
akirk said:
the cynical pessimists who think they are big by knocking everyone else just look a little bit silly
The trouble with forums like this is that you can make comments like this without having any knowledge of the abilities, skill, experience or intelligence of the people you are aiming them at Crippo said:
Most people dont see potholes, don’t slow appropriately for speed humps and generally look ahead in a vacant non seeing way. They have only learned to operate the controls of the vehicle to get them from A to B. If they arrive at B then they are satisfied.
However some people buy nice cars and o e would imagine they like them. However they also drive like the aforementioned. This, I find hard to understand. If you like cars why don’t you like driving?
Because unfortunately, having a nice car because they can doesn’t equate with your logic ... modern leasing makes ‘performance’ cars more attainable ... with no requirement to take anything more than the standard driving test ... However some people buy nice cars and o e would imagine they like them. However they also drive like the aforementioned. This, I find hard to understand. If you like cars why don’t you like driving?
An earlier post asked how to spot ‘advanced’ drivers ... one guide I use is a vehicles tyres.
An interesting thread and now to find some feedback on Don Palmer ...
senninha2 said:
Crippo said:
Most people dont see potholes, don’t slow appropriately for speed humps and generally look ahead in a vacant non seeing way. They have only learned to operate the controls of the vehicle to get them from A to B. If they arrive at B then they are satisfied.
However some people buy nice cars and o e would imagine they like them. However they also drive like the aforementioned. This, I find hard to understand. If you like cars why don’t you like driving?
Because unfortunately, having a nice car because they can doesn’t equate with your logic ... modern leasing makes ‘performance’ cars more attainable ... with no requirement to take anything more than the standard driving test ... However some people buy nice cars and o e would imagine they like them. However they also drive like the aforementioned. This, I find hard to understand. If you like cars why don’t you like driving?
An earlier post asked how to spot ‘advanced’ drivers ... one guide I use is a vehicles tyres.
An interesting thread and now to find some feedback on Don Palmer ...
I think for most people these days cars are about projecting an image and sweet FA to do with liking cars, they drive a tit because it's all part that projection.
Take for example the cockwomble in a brand new Audi TT, who nearly gets a Mondeo sized dent in the side of his new car, through straight-lining a roundabout without checking his mirrors for large Mondeo shaped objects. I'd bet he thinks (like many appear to) that straight-lining roundabouts makes him look like a skilled driver. But i'd bet money that his first set of replacement tyres will be ditch finders and probably different on each corner.
These days EVERYTHING is about image and BS, look the part, sound the part and you can be anything.
Monkeylegend said:
... just because somebody has not gone through an advanced driving course doesn't mean that they have not gained this knowledge and driving ability /skill in other ways.
I am interested to understand how “somebody [who] has not gone through an advanced driving course” would know whether or not they had gained “this knowledge and driving ability/skill”?Unless one has done an advanced driving course, the course contents, the knowledge and driving skills acquired and the standard required to pass are surely a known unknown. It may well be the case that the knowledge and driving/skill has been acquired in other ways, but without the experience of having gone through an advanced driving course how does one know? How can one make a comparison without having knowledge of both experiences?
Edited by johnao on Monday 22 April 10:25
Edited by johnao on Monday 22 April 10:26
lyonspride said:
Truth...
I think for most people these days cars are about projecting an image and sweet FA to do with liking cars, they drive a tit because it's all part that projection.
Take for example the cockwomble in a brand new Audi TT, who nearly gets a Mondeo sized dent in the side of his new car, through straight-lining a roundabout without checking his mirrors for large Mondeo shaped objects. I'd bet he thinks (like many appear to) that straight-lining roundabouts makes him look like a skilled driver. But i'd bet money that his first set of replacement tyres will be ditch finders and probably different on each corner.
These days EVERYTHING is about image and BS, look the part, sound the part and you can be anything.
I do agree with this view for many cases. And driving modern cars with auto-everything makes it easier for them to drive fast and think that they are brilliant. With a more affluent society (for some) the below average driver can easily get a car with performance equal to say a Dino 246 of forty years ago.I think for most people these days cars are about projecting an image and sweet FA to do with liking cars, they drive a tit because it's all part that projection.
Take for example the cockwomble in a brand new Audi TT, who nearly gets a Mondeo sized dent in the side of his new car, through straight-lining a roundabout without checking his mirrors for large Mondeo shaped objects. I'd bet he thinks (like many appear to) that straight-lining roundabouts makes him look like a skilled driver. But i'd bet money that his first set of replacement tyres will be ditch finders and probably different on each corner.
These days EVERYTHING is about image and BS, look the part, sound the part and you can be anything.
Also, apart from a very few minority of drivers who may be 'naturals', it is very unlikely that someone can become truly 'advanced' in the British sense without training. Chris Gilbert said in one of his excellent videos that he had not come across anyone, without police style roadcraft training, who looks far enough ahead on "Full-beam". I haven't come across any driver here in Australia who can demonstrate anything like a good impression of the System of Car Control - except for police force instructors - some of whom have had experience at Hendon and passed skills on.
I am a strong believer in reading as much about the subject as is possible (advice given by the 6th Earl of Cottenham in 1934) but good solid training from a specialist is necessary to be able to practice what you read. Don't doctors do theory and practice? And they also argue with each other!
Len Woodman said:
lyonspride said:
Truth...
I think for most people these days cars are about projecting an image and sweet FA to do with liking cars, they drive a tit because it's all part that projection.
Take for example the cockwomble in a brand new Audi TT, who nearly gets a Mondeo sized dent in the side of his new car, through straight-lining a roundabout without checking his mirrors for large Mondeo shaped objects. I'd bet he thinks (like many appear to) that straight-lining roundabouts makes him look like a skilled driver. But i'd bet money that his first set of replacement tyres will be ditch finders and probably different on each corner.
These days EVERYTHING is about image and BS, look the part, sound the part and you can be anything.
I do agree with this view for many cases. And driving modern cars with auto-everything makes it easier for them to drive fast and think that they are brilliant. With a more affluent society (for some) the below average driver can easily get a car with performance equal to say a Dino 246 of forty years ago.I think for most people these days cars are about projecting an image and sweet FA to do with liking cars, they drive a tit because it's all part that projection.
Take for example the cockwomble in a brand new Audi TT, who nearly gets a Mondeo sized dent in the side of his new car, through straight-lining a roundabout without checking his mirrors for large Mondeo shaped objects. I'd bet he thinks (like many appear to) that straight-lining roundabouts makes him look like a skilled driver. But i'd bet money that his first set of replacement tyres will be ditch finders and probably different on each corner.
These days EVERYTHING is about image and BS, look the part, sound the part and you can be anything.
Also, apart from a very few minority of drivers who may be 'naturals', it is very unlikely that someone can become truly 'advanced' in the British sense without training. Chris Gilbert said in one of his excellent videos that he had not come across anyone, without police style roadcraft training, who looks far enough ahead on "Full-beam". I haven't come across any driver here in Australia who can demonstrate anything like a good impression of the System of Car Control - except for police force instructors - some of whom have had experience at Hendon and passed skills on.
I am a strong believer in reading as much about the subject as is possible (advice given by the 6th Earl of Cottenham in 1934) but good solid training from a specialist is necessary to be able to practice what you read. Don't doctors do theory and practice? And they also argue with each other!
I do think there is part of the same problem though, in that people do stuff on the road because they think that's what skilled drivers do, like cutting roundabouts or trying to drift a V8 Holden around a corner, hitting a pot hole (or a kangaroo) and flying off down a cliff.
I think some people do stuff out of laziness and other do stuff because they see other people doing it, something which i'm sure happens in every country around the world.
GOATever said:
I’m often driving early in the morning, or late at night. The roads are (typically) quieter than at other times of the day. As long as there are no solid white lines, and I can see what’s ahead clearly, I ‘use all of the road’ but I find that most people I know, religiously stick to the left lane, even when it was clear to use the other carriageway, on a twisty for example. Why do they not use the available road, to it’s full potential? I find it odd.
Using all of the road is a poor driving tecnique. Can you really be sure there is nothing oncoming, a cyclist, a horse, a parked car, anything that would make such a move dangerous.Most drivers stick to the left hand lane as the HC says 'keep left unless overtaking, passing a parked vehicle' etc. If you have any respect for the HC, that it teaches the safest way to drive and, as PHers, why shouldn't we, and not pick and choose which bits to follow or ignore.
But the IAM and the police do it, so that's OK then.
Edited by nonsequitur on Monday 22 April 19:27
Gary C said:
Was thinking about this thread today on the way back from my parents.
Around Eaton near Oulton park, there is a section if you cross the white line, you can maintain a full clear view of the road ahead. This allows you to maintain reasonable progress while actually being safer.
Reading between the lines, so to speak, 'reasonable progress' could also be made by staying in the left hand lane.Around Eaton near Oulton park, there is a section if you cross the white line, you can maintain a full clear view of the road ahead. This allows you to maintain reasonable progress while actually being safer.
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