Why do so few people ‘use all of the road’?

[Johnnytheboy]

Swole said:

What I do see in commuter hours is piss poor lane discipline, where people ahead wander all over the the place, playing chicken with oncoming traffic.

That's what I see more and more, people that veer from side to side in their lane for no obvious reason.

[SamR380]

Johnnytheboy said:

That's what I see more and more, people that veer from side to side in their lane for no obvious reason.

It's pretty obvious, they're on snapchat.

[driverrob]

mat205125 said:

The whole road is there, so might as well use it.

Conservation of momentum, and reduced need for avoidable braking and steering inputs is an economically environmentally friendly way to drive ...... maybe why I get over 70k miles from discs and pads, and 30k miles from sets of tyres!!

Exactly so.

[Pica-Pica]

Monkeylegend said:

You can only use one piece of road which is basically the width of your car, so you also are not using all the road. When you are driving on the wrong side of the road, the correct side of the road is still there not being used

When a sign says ‘use both lanes’, I really try to. I have yet to see a sign that says ‘use either lane’.

With regards using all the road on a single carriageway, I always drive to maximise visibility, where safe, legal and appropriate.

It is funny that most motorists manage to strictly use the left hand lane of a single carriageway, except when overtaking, but cannot manage it on dual carriageways and motorways.

[Starfighter]

I was taught that “offsiding” is OK to maintain a view you already have but not to do it to solely to allow higher speeds.

It was also suggested not be seen doing it as others may copy the actions without having the thoughts and vision needed to do it safely.

[waremark]

Ryan... said:

Dr Jekyll said:

I don't generally use offsiding to cut corners but to improve visibility on the approach to left handers. There are a couple of twisty lanes near me (EG west of Great Missenden) where you can straight line a zig zagging section, but even then it's mainly about visibility and the concentration required for (and satisfaction from) getting the positioning just right for best view is greater IMHO than from just staying between the lines.

As long as we're not off siding INTO a left hand bend! The theory is sound (improving visability) but should it go worng it's generally catastrophic. You need to be safely on the "correct" side of the road before the bend. As taught on my Poilce standard and advanced car courses as well as advanced bike course and refreshers for both. Also advised by my fellow Rapid Training Instructors who are crash investigators.

I obviously support the need for caution and consider that there is great potential for using the 'wrong' side of the road 'wrongly'. For that reason it is fortunate that most people don't use it.

I have heard good things about Rapid Training so I wonder whether there is some misunderstanding here.

However, I find it odd that you would always want to be on the 'correct' side of the road before the bend. If you are going to be on the correct side of the road before the bend, even if no opposing traffic came into sight while you were on the 'wrong' side, then you will have achieved no benefit by using the 'wrong' side. You only get benefit from using the 'wrong' side if you maintain a longer view as a result, so that you can safely maintain a higher speed while always being able to recover to the 'correct' side of the road without frightening an oncomer and still being able to stop on your own 'correct' side of the road in the distance you can see to be clear.

Edited by waremark on Tuesday 19th February 18:36

[waremark]

By the way, neither of the main Advanced Driving organisations, IAM Roadsmart and Rospa RoADAR, recommend using the offside of a road with lane markings to improve view. They are probably too worried that drivers may do it inappropriately and so reduce safety rather than increase safety.

[Dr Jekyll]

waremark said:

I obviously support the need for caution and consider that there is great potential for using the 'wrong' side of the road 'wrongly'. For that reason it is fortunate that most people don't use it.

I have heard good things about Rapid Training so I wonder whether there is some misunderstanding here.

However, I find it odd that you would always want to be on the 'correct' side of the road before the bend. If you are going to be on the correct side of the road before the bend, even if no opposing traffic came into sight while you were on the 'wrong' side, then you will have achieved no benefit by using the 'wrong' side. You only get benefit from using the 'wrong' side if you maintain a longer view as a result, so that you can safely maintain a higher speed while always being able to recover to the 'correct' side of the road without frightening an oncomer and still being able to stop on your own 'correct' side of the road in the distance you can see to be clear.

There is a stretch of road I use frequently where a fast left hander leads into a straight with a slower right hander at the end. Approaching close to the centre line you have a good view down the opposite side of the road all the way down the straight, but little view of the nearside. If there is no oncoming traffic I usually move over the centre line and get a full view down the nearside, especially useful on a road with no footpath. If I move back nearside before the bend for any reason, there is still an advantage on having seen any nearside hazards which are likely to still be there a few seconds later.

[lyonspride]

GOATever said:

I’m often driving early in the morning, or late at night. The roads are (typically) quieter than at other times of the day. As long as there are no solid white lines, and I can see what’s ahead clearly, I ‘use all of the road’ but I find that most people I know, religiously stick to the left lane, even when it was clear to use the other carriageway, on a twisty for example. Why do they not use the available road, to it’s full potential? I find it odd.

And yet as soon as they get to a roundabout, they turn into F1 drivers and try to cut straight across regardless of the poor c**t in the right hand lane next to them.

[DocSteve]

The principles involved here are:

- Link speed to available vision and grip
- Maximise visibility without compromising safety (and that includes 3rd party perception and their potential responses)

I don't find it bizarre that the average motorist doesn't do it - they are not thinking about what they are doing.

For the poster who mentioned people cutting corners - anticipating and avoiding this nuisance is where using the available road is an important principle and different from the racetrack. You should position your vehicle so that you stay away from the centre when visibility is poor. For a right hand bend then sticking to the left on approach is simple; for left hand bends you have to judge your approach position to maximise visibility early on if this is possible (unsighted and/or tight, contacting radii bends do not lend themselves to an offside position in general). On exit from a left hand bend, unless completely open you should stick to the nearside and not let the vehicle do what it wants to do and go straight on. Using the whole road in these types of situations is really for racetracks and truly open bends on the public road.

[Hol]

lyonspride said:

And yet as soon as they get to a roundabout, they turn into F1 drivers and try to cut straight across regardless of the poor c**t in the right hand lane next to them.

^^ Now THAT is sadly too true !!

I had one last night who 1 min later also continued to straddle the lanes over a multi lane junction.

It made me think f this very thread.

[CABC]

illegal in NZ. you can cross broken white lines solely to overtake.

[lyonspride]

CABC said:

illegal in NZ. you can cross broken white lines solely to overtake.

In Spain the Police will do you for it too.

My parents warned me 8 years ago, when I was visiting them at their apartment near Almera, apparently they know the Brits like cutting corners, so they'll spot your plates and follow you until you've done a few corners.

Edited by lyonspride on Wednesday 20th February 08:47

[Cliftonite]

CABC said:

illegal in NZ. you can cross broken white lines solely to overtake.

That is sad! Soon to be part of the U.K.'s dumbed-down motoring experience when it occurs to the likes of Brake ?

[akirk]

Ryan-nunm9 said:

As long as we're not off siding INTO a left hand bend! The theory is sound (improving visability) but should it go worng it's generally catastrophic. You need to be safely on the "correct" side of the road before the bend. As taught on my Poilce standard and advanced car courses as well as advanced bike course and refreshers for both. Also advised by my fellow Rapid Training Instructors who are crash investigators.

Surely that depends on the left-hand bend?!
Anything that goes wrong on a road has the ability to be catastrophic - but opening up sight-lines and extending vision considerably up the road is surely going to make decision making easier not harder / avoiding others easier not harder / etc.

I would hope that any advanced driver (bearing in mind the forum we are in) would be making a decision bend by bend and not just repeating a mantra which may or may not apply... I know of a number of bends local to me where sitting on the right hand side as you approach and go through allows you to see well in advance, through the bend, and in at least one case, up the next straight and into the next bend... alternatively you can sit on the 'correct' side and see virtually nothing - car broken down around the bend / horse and rider / cyclist / pedestrian... We also have bends which are absolutely flat with no barriers to either side (flat verges and fields) - allowing you to see through a number of bends ahead - why would you need to be on the left before going through the bend?

I drive to maximise contingency and safety, so choosing where on the road the car is placed would be on that basis before any other...
ultimately a mantra which says always straight-line the bends is dangerous, but equally a mantra saying always be back in before a bend while likely to me more risk free is as lacking in thought - an advanced driver should be an intelligent driver making choices for each bend and the circumstances within which they are driving that bend...

[Monkeylegend]

akirk said:

Surely that depends on the left-hand bend?!
Anything that goes wrong on a road has the ability to be catastrophic - but opening up sight-lines and extending vision considerably up the road is surely going to make decision making easier not harder / avoiding others easier not harder / etc.

I would hope that any advanced driver (bearing in mind the forum we are in) would be making a decision bend by bend and not just repeating a mantra which may or may not apply... I know of a number of bends local to me where sitting on the right hand side as you approach and go through allows you to see well in advance, through the bend, and in at least one case, up the next straight and into the next bend... alternatively you can sit on the 'correct' side and see virtually nothing - car broken down around the bend / horse and rider / cyclist / pedestrian... We also have bends which are absolutely flat with no barriers to either side (flat verges and fields) - allowing you to see through a number of bends ahead - why would you need to be on the left before going through the bend?

I drive to maximise contingency and safety, so choosing where on the road the car is placed would be on that basis before any other...
ultimately a mantra which says always straight-line the bends is dangerous, but equally a mantra saying always be back in before a bend while likely to me more risk free is as lacking in thought - an advanced driver should be an intelligent driver making choices for each bend and the circumstances within which they are driving that bend...

But the PH driving god is a different breed you know.

Masterful car control, x-ray vision, has right of way everywhere, can control any loss of grip, any skid,any aquaplaning, at the same time as sending a text message, all with one hand on the steering wheel, at twice the speed limit, without ever getting caught or having an accident.

Then there are us mere mortals who in the main drive defensively, stick to the correct side of the road and assume everybody else on the road is a feral PH driving god

[Dr Jekyll]

Monkeylegend said:

But the PH driving god is a different breed you know.

Masterful car control, x-ray vision, has right of way everywhere, can control any loss of grip, any skid,any aquaplaning, at the same time as sending a text message, all with one hand on the steering wheel, at twice the speed limit, without ever getting caught or having an accident.

Then there are us mere mortals who in the main drive defensively, stick to the correct side of the road and assume everybody else on the road is a feral PH driving god

Using the offside view where appropriate to get an earlier look at whatever is lurking round the next left hander IS driving defensively.

Incidentally, if you're in NZ and planning an overtake, does the law mean you can't get the offside view until you are legally committed to the overtake?

[Pica-Pica]

CABC said:

illegal in NZ. you can cross broken white lines solely to overtake.

So avoiding draincovers, pot holes, debris, etc is not allowed?

[akirk]

Monkeylegend said:

But the PH driving god is a different breed you know.

Masterful car control, x-ray vision, has right of way everywhere, can control any loss of grip, any skid,any aquaplaning, at the same time as sending a text message, all with one hand on the steering wheel, at twice the speed limit, without ever getting caught or having an accident.

Then there are us mere mortals who in the main drive defensively, stick to the correct side of the road and assume everybody else on the road is a feral PH driving god

so, you would reduce your visibility / minimise your sight-lines / reduce your contingency / increase your risk - purely to obey some arbitrary rule which doesn't exist in quite the way most people imagine?

just drive defensively - and if that means using parts of the road to increase the distance you can see, then that might be the right decision for you at that time on that road - having fixed mantras by which you drive regardless of context is not advanced driving...

[Dogwatch]

DocSteve said:

The principles involved here are:

- Link speed to available vision and grip
- Maximise visibility without compromising safety (and that includes 3rd party perception and their potential responses)

I don't find it bizarre that the average motorist doesn't do it - they are not thinking about what they are doing.
.

Not just on the public highway. There's a garden centre locally which has a one-way exit road with a wiggle in it. Easy and safe to 'straighten out' the wiggle but never seen anyone else do it.