Indicate left after overtaking, or lane change on a motorway

[RobM77]

Ron240 said:

nonsequitur said:

There is no rational reason not to indicate when entering a high speed highway.

I could answer this.....but I feel I would be wasting my time.

I think the conclusion we have come to here is - there is certainly truth in what all are saying on this subject, but nobody is 100% correct.

No, I think that’s just you. I’m fairly certain who is right and wrong here.

It is a fact that not all sliproads end - some become a new lane. It is also a fact that not all drivers on the motorway are going to have spotted all the signage, different cats’ eyes at night, and different road markings. To be honest, not all drivers even know about diffrent coloured cats’ eyes and road markings. Those two things are undisputed facts, and if you accept both those facts, there is no reason at all to not signal to other drivers when you’re on a sliproad that ends, such that you have to make a move out of it to join the motorway. Without a signal, other drivers won’t know whether or not joining cars are coming into their lane or a lane they’re thinking of moving into. There’s no opinion to that at all, it’s just two facts and a bit of logic.

[Ron240]

RobM77 said:

No, I think that’s just you.
I’m fairly certain who is right and wrong here.

Well this my friend is just plain arrogance.
I gave you the sensible conclusion but you are not willing to even consider it, instead insisting you are 100% correct and anybody who disagrees with your viewpoint has to be wrong.
If that is not arrogant I don't know what is.

[RobM77]

Ron240 said:

RobM77 said:

No, I think that’s just you.
I’m fairly certain who is right and wrong here.

Well this my friend is just plain arrogance.
I gave you the sensible conclusion but you are not willing to even consider it, instead insisting you are 100% correct and anybody who disagrees with your viewpoint has to be wrong.
If that is not arrogant I don't know what is.

It’s just simple logic. If you want to call it arrogance to defend that, then that’s fine by me. Personally though I’d reserve ‘arrogance’ for taking sides on a matter of opinion, or more complex logic. The issue of indicating if you don’t see someone (the main topic of this thread) is an example of something more subtle and decided on opinion. Whilst I defend my opinion on that more complex issue, I would never say I was right and others were wrong, that would be arrogant. This though (indicating joining a motorway) is so childishly simple that yes, you are obviously completely wrong. Not indicating because you know what’s happening next, when others obviously don’t, is just stupid.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 4th September 22:19

[Graveworm]

RobM77 said:

No, I think that’s just you. I’m fairly certain who is right and wrong here.

It is a fact that not all sliproads end - some become a new lane. It is also a fact that not all drivers on the motorway are going to have spotted all the signage, different cats’ eyes at night, and different road markings. To be honest, not all drivers even know about diffrent coloured cats’ eyes and road markings. Those two things are undisputed facts, and if you accept both those facts, there is no reason at all to not signal to other drivers when you’re on a sliproad that ends, such that you have to make a move out of it to join the motorway. Without a signal, other drivers won’t know whether or not joining cars are coming into their lane or a lane they’re thinking of moving into. There’s no opinion to that at all, it’s just two facts and a bit of logic.

One example that crops up. When intending to join a motorway the only relevant vehicles, already established, are some distance back and you can join in good time and at a speed, such that they do not need to slow down or change course. If you indicate in good time, despite this, the car in the nearside lane may move to the centre lane, out of courtesy or in case you are moving slowly etc. In doing this, they hit a vehicle, that you were aware of or knew could potentially be, in the centre lane. Any time something like that's a possibility is a factor in whether or not to indicate when joining from a slip road.

[RobM77]

Graveworm said:

RobM77 said:

No, I think that’s just you. I’m fairly certain who is right and wrong here.

It is a fact that not all sliproads end - some become a new lane. It is also a fact that not all drivers on the motorway are going to have spotted all the signage, different cats’ eyes at night, and different road markings. To be honest, not all drivers even know about diffrent coloured cats’ eyes and road markings. Those two things are undisputed facts, and if you accept both those facts, there is no reason at all to not signal to other drivers when you’re on a sliproad that ends, such that you have to make a move out of it to join the motorway. Without a signal, other drivers won’t know whether or not joining cars are coming into their lane or a lane they’re thinking of moving into. There’s no opinion to that at all, it’s just two facts and a bit of logic.

One example that crops up. When intending to join a motorway the only relevant vehicles, already established, are some distance back and you can join in good time and at a speed, such that they do not need to slow down or change course. If you indicate in good time, despite this, the car in the nearside lane may move to the centre lane, out of courtesy or in case you are moving slowly etc. In doing this, they hit a vehicle, that you were aware of or knew could potentially be, in the centre lane. Any time something like that's a possibility is a factor in whether or not to indicate when joining from a slip road.

Ah, in the above discussion we were exclusively talking about signalling to cars close by on the motorway that will be affected by another car joining.

Cars far away is another matter entirely, and defaults to the “is your observation reliable and perfect?” topic discussed on the majority of this thread (e.g. how sure are you a motorbike isn’t hanging in your blindspot?).

[nonsequitur]

Ron240 said:

RobM77 said:

No, I think that’s just you.
I’m fairly certain who is right and wrong here.

Well this my friend is just plain arrogance.
I gave you the sensible conclusion but you are not willing to even consider it, instead insisting you are 100% correct and anybody who disagrees with your viewpoint has to be wrong.
If that is not arrogant I don't know what is.

A little bit of arrogance goes a long way on PH. Especially if you know you are right.

[RobM77]

nonsequitur said:

Ron240 said:

RobM77 said:

No, I think that’s just you.
I’m fairly certain who is right and wrong here.

Well this my friend is just plain arrogance.
I gave you the sensible conclusion but you are not willing to even consider it, instead insisting you are 100% correct and anybody who disagrees with your viewpoint has to be wrong.
If that is not arrogant I don't know what is.

A little bit of arrogance goes a long way on PH. Especially if you know you are right.

Whilst many things aren't clear, and it's good to discuss, this is pretty clear. People on the motorway behind you when you join cannot be guaranteed to know whether a sliproad ends or becomes another lane - simple as that; the indicator differentiates between the two scenarios.

[Dixy]

It is exceptional when driving for anything to be completely black and white, better drivers take and give as much information as they can and make judgement calls based on it. All information carries varying weight and a R/H indicator nearing the end of a motorway slip road would carry about as little as the absence of same.

[RobM77]

Dixy said:

a R/H indicator nearing the end of a motorway slip road would carry about as little as the absence of same.

And how does existing motorway traffic behind that driver know that the sliproad is ending? If they've missed the signs that it's that type of sliproad (road signs, cats' eyes etc) and saw you on the sliproad not indicating, they'd just assume it was a sliproad that becomes a new lane 1.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 5th September 14:00

[Pica-Pica]

RobM77 said:

Dixy said:

a R/H indicator nearing the end of a motorway slip road would carry about as little as the absence of same.

And how does existing motorway traffic behind that driver know that the sliproad is ending? If they've missed the signs that it's that type of sliproad (road signs, cats' eyes etc) and saw you on the sliproad not indicating, they'd just assume it was a sliproad that becomes a new lane 1.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 5th September 14:00

You have said it all when you say they may have missed the signs. To me, a slip road that becomes an extra lane sign, are pretty big and obvious to those on the motorway. However, yes, I make a confirmatory ‘I am about to enter the main part of the motorway’ signal.

[RobM77]

Pica-Pica said:

RobM77 said:

Dixy said:

a R/H indicator nearing the end of a motorway slip road would carry about as little as the absence of same.

And how does existing motorway traffic behind that driver know that the sliproad is ending? If they've missed the signs that it's that type of sliproad (road signs, cats' eyes etc) and saw you on the sliproad not indicating, they'd just assume it was a sliproad that becomes a new lane 1.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 5th September 14:00

You have said it all when you say they may have missed the signs. To me, a slip road that becomes an extra lane sign, are pretty big and obvious to those on the motorway. However, yes, I make a confirmatory ‘I am about to enter the main part of the motorway’ signal.

You cannot assume that other road users have seen those signs; they can be easily hidden by a lorry, or a driver can just miss things. In fact, another driver who's just overtaken said lorry and will be moving back to lane one is one of the key audiences for signals from joining cars....

You get the same situation with lanes for turning left/right; you still indicate left/right in one, because you can't assume other road users have spotted the left/right turn marking on the road.

These really are basics of driving!