Dangerous overtaken driver
Discussion
Gojira said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Gojira said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Your list is rubbish. If there is a chance of any of those things happening you don't overtake, that's pretty basic stuff. A little blinky light won't save you if you balls up your observations. You complain of being blocked when overtaking yet also argue that indicating is necessary, I never get blocked and hardly ever indicate. If you want to stop people blocking your overtaking, try not indicating. If you want them to keep blocking you, keep indicating, I know where the greatest risk is for me.
You are f
king joking....The first thing I was taught when I learnt to drive was "Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre"
As you claim to be an ADI, when did that stop being a basic principle?
Here's the examiners marking criteria on it, if you're interested: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
I'm sorry, but I don't see how signalling my intentions to another road user who might be affected by them is a bad idea?
WilliamWoollard said:
Gojira said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Gojira said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Your list is rubbish. If there is a chance of any of those things happening you don't overtake, that's pretty basic stuff. A little blinky light won't save you if you balls up your observations. You complain of being blocked when overtaking yet also argue that indicating is necessary, I never get blocked and hardly ever indicate. If you want to stop people blocking your overtaking, try not indicating. If you want them to keep blocking you, keep indicating, I know where the greatest risk is for me.
You are fking joking....The first thing I was taught when I learnt to drive was "Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre"
As you claim to be an ADI, when did that stop being a basic principle?
Here's the examiners marking criteria on it, if you're interested: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
I'm sorry, but I don't see how signalling my intentions to another road user who might be affected by them is a bad idea?
For anyone else who can't be bothered to follow the link, it is a clip of the Average White Band, playing Lets Go Round Again.
RobM77 said:
Yes, getting blocked is an occupational hazard of being a safe driver who lets others know of their intentions. I will continue indicating, and continue getting blocked. Occasionally an old person may take offence when I hold a door open for them, but does that mean I won't give way to elderly people and hold doors open for them? Why be an ahole just because a small fraction of others are?
It helps to do some maths here to appreciate the point that I, and others, are making. I complete on average about three overtakes per day on my commute. Therefore 'hundreds', as you say, would only take me 6 months (for 300-400). I'm not unusual; two others on my small team at work do the same sort of annual mileage commuting. Now, if we consider safe driving as having a 1 in 10 chance of an accident on my commute during my whole working life, that's 50 years of 240 days per year = 12,000 days of driving. 3 overtakes a day means 36,000 overtakes. So 1 in 10 would be 360,000; just over a third of a million before an error occurs - that's what you'd need to hit before you have that 1 in 10 chance during your driving life. These are the rare events that cause accidents and this is what advanced driving is all about - guarding against the extremely rare. A driver who's not advanced may just be guarding against the rare.
This is why I'm saying you can't trust your observation 100%. If I showed you 360,000 photos of a road, where a few of them had a hidden driveway up ahead, a runner crossing the road dressed in black, a motorbike in your blind spot - could you be certain of identifying these hazards correctly in all 360,000? Not in hundreds, but a third of a million? To err is human. This is why indicating is a good backup and failsafe. This is why we do all things like this when driving: shoulder checks before lane changes, rev-matching, both hands on the wheel etc. It's the 1 in a million that gets you. Obviously you don't need to do things that are too onerous (like never leaving your driveway), but indicating is literally just lifting a finger.
As someone above said, these are basics. Yes, advanced drivers view indicating as a form of communication, rather than something done as rote, but that doesn't mean you should forget the basics and the reasons why they exist, it simply means you alter the way and the timing with which you indicate.
This makes a lot of sense. I'll indicate, even in situations where I've not seen anything. Because I've not seen it doesn't mean it's not there. And in the event of an accident I know I'll be asked if I did. I'm surprised you get blocked so much though, I can't remember when it last happened to me. hole just because a small fraction of others are?It helps to do some maths here to appreciate the point that I, and others, are making. I complete on average about three overtakes per day on my commute. Therefore 'hundreds', as you say, would only take me 6 months (for 300-400). I'm not unusual; two others on my small team at work do the same sort of annual mileage commuting. Now, if we consider safe driving as having a 1 in 10 chance of an accident on my commute during my whole working life, that's 50 years of 240 days per year = 12,000 days of driving. 3 overtakes a day means 36,000 overtakes. So 1 in 10 would be 360,000; just over a third of a million before an error occurs - that's what you'd need to hit before you have that 1 in 10 chance during your driving life. These are the rare events that cause accidents and this is what advanced driving is all about - guarding against the extremely rare. A driver who's not advanced may just be guarding against the rare.
This is why I'm saying you can't trust your observation 100%. If I showed you 360,000 photos of a road, where a few of them had a hidden driveway up ahead, a runner crossing the road dressed in black, a motorbike in your blind spot - could you be certain of identifying these hazards correctly in all 360,000? Not in hundreds, but a third of a million? To err is human. This is why indicating is a good backup and failsafe. This is why we do all things like this when driving: shoulder checks before lane changes, rev-matching, both hands on the wheel etc. It's the 1 in a million that gets you. Obviously you don't need to do things that are too onerous (like never leaving your driveway), but indicating is literally just lifting a finger.
As someone above said, these are basics. Yes, advanced drivers view indicating as a form of communication, rather than something done as rote, but that doesn't mean you should forget the basics and the reasons why they exist, it simply means you alter the way and the timing with which you indicate.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 27th November 10:26
As for overtaking when moving to a faster speed zone, or after queuing behind a slow vehicle, I always wait until the vehicle in front has reached it's full speed before deciding if it's necessary. He may decide to do 40 or even 60 in the 40, in which case there's no need to overtake. It sounds like OP has decided he won't wait, will definitely be faster and the other driver, probably beginning to accelerate, has reacted badly to this. To prove himself right he's had to do 70 in a 40, most likely very dangerous, both because of the speed and he's now angry.
WilliamWoollard said:
How many times do you need people to tell you? CONSIDER giving a signal. Weigh up the risks and consider if a signal is the safest course of action. A lack of signal that doesn't affect anyone will not be marked as a fault on any UK driving test.
Here's the examiners marking criteria on it, if you're interested: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
Delighted to have seen that. It includes "Signals shown in the Highway Code should only be used, if it would help other road users (including pedestrians)." That seems to support the traditional teaching of the advanced driving organisations rather than the alternative "signal unless it would cause confusion" argument put forward by various sensible experts including Rob and Von H.Here's the examiners marking criteria on it, if you're interested: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
I will report what I do, and what many expert drivers with whom I drive do; I am not arguing with those who disagree. I do not use the indicator to signal to a vehicle I am proposing to overtake. If I use an indicator to signal, it is for following vehicles. If I feel the need to signal to the vehicle I am overtaking the signal will be either by headlights or horn. Incidentally, by the time I make the go/no go decision to overtake the right hand indicator will generally not be visible in the mirror of the target vehicle - I will be partially or fully offside.
Can anyone remember what Reg Local does?
Incidentally Rob I am amazed that you manage 3 overtakes on your commute. I am very jealous. On my most regular 30 mile cross country route (Google Maps thinks it is my route to work but work is a euphemism) an overtake of anything faster than bicycle horse or tractor is a rarity. On IAM drives even at Masters level an overtake is a rarity although consideration of an overtake is looked for. I have to go for recreational drives in less crowded parts of the country to practise my overtaking.
RobM77 said:
Yes, getting blocked is an occupational hazard of being a safe driver who lets others know of their intentions. I will continue indicating, and continue getting blocked. Occasionally an old person may take offence when I hold a door open for them, but does that mean I won't give way to elderly people and hold doors open for them? Why be an ahole just because a small fraction of others are?
It helps to do some maths here to appreciate the point that I, and others, are making. I complete on average about three overtakes per day on my commute. Therefore 'hundreds', as you say, would only take me 6 months (for 300-400). I'm not unusual; two others on my small team at work do the same sort of annual mileage commuting. Now, if we consider safe driving as having a 1 in 10 chance of an accident on my commute during my whole working life, that's 50 years of 240 days per year = 12,000 days of driving. 3 overtakes a day means 36,000 overtakes. So 1 in 10 would be 360,000; just over a third of a million before an error occurs - that's what you'd need to hit before you have that 1 in 10 chance during your driving life. These are the rare events that cause accidents and this is what advanced driving is all about - guarding against the extremely rare. A driver who's not advanced may just be guarding against the rare.
This is why I'm saying you can't trust your observation 100%. If I showed you 360,000 photos of a road, where a few of them had a hidden driveway up ahead, a runner crossing the road dressed in black, a motorbike in your blind spot - could you be certain of identifying these hazards correctly in all 360,000? Not in hundreds, but a third of a million? To err is human. This is why indicating is a good backup and failsafe. This is why we do all things like this when driving: shoulder checks before lane changes, rev-matching, both hands on the wheel etc. It's the 1 in a million that gets you. Obviously you don't need to do things that are too onerous (like never leaving your driveway), but indicating is literally just lifting a finger.
As someone above said, these are basics. Yes, advanced drivers view indicating as a form of communication, rather than something done as rote, but that doesn't mean you should forget the basics and the reasons why they exist, it simply means you alter the way and the timing with which you indicate.
These are exactly the arguments used to those who stick to 40 even when conditions permit going up to 60 for a while. There may be something their observation has missed so going slowly is a failsafe. The point they ignore is that the danger of missing something is only reduced by improved observation. If you do fail to recognise a hazard, doing 40 instead of 60 is rather more likely to help you than having an indicator flashing during an ill advised overtake, but you are still likely to be in trouble. It's pretty basic psychology that if you don't act on your observations, the quality of those observations will suffer. You say indicating is 'just lifting a finger'. Yes, indicating indiscriminately takes no effort at all, that's the trouble.hole just because a small fraction of others are?It helps to do some maths here to appreciate the point that I, and others, are making. I complete on average about three overtakes per day on my commute. Therefore 'hundreds', as you say, would only take me 6 months (for 300-400). I'm not unusual; two others on my small team at work do the same sort of annual mileage commuting. Now, if we consider safe driving as having a 1 in 10 chance of an accident on my commute during my whole working life, that's 50 years of 240 days per year = 12,000 days of driving. 3 overtakes a day means 36,000 overtakes. So 1 in 10 would be 360,000; just over a third of a million before an error occurs - that's what you'd need to hit before you have that 1 in 10 chance during your driving life. These are the rare events that cause accidents and this is what advanced driving is all about - guarding against the extremely rare. A driver who's not advanced may just be guarding against the rare.
This is why I'm saying you can't trust your observation 100%. If I showed you 360,000 photos of a road, where a few of them had a hidden driveway up ahead, a runner crossing the road dressed in black, a motorbike in your blind spot - could you be certain of identifying these hazards correctly in all 360,000? Not in hundreds, but a third of a million? To err is human. This is why indicating is a good backup and failsafe. This is why we do all things like this when driving: shoulder checks before lane changes, rev-matching, both hands on the wheel etc. It's the 1 in a million that gets you. Obviously you don't need to do things that are too onerous (like never leaving your driveway), but indicating is literally just lifting a finger.
As someone above said, these are basics. Yes, advanced drivers view indicating as a form of communication, rather than something done as rote, but that doesn't mean you should forget the basics and the reasons why they exist, it simply means you alter the way and the timing with which you indicate.
WilliamWoollard said:
Here's the examiners marking criteria on it, if you're interested: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
@WilliamWoollard - You actually read those criteria bud?Examiner Guidance said:
Serious fault:
Omitted an essential signal to inform other road user of a change in direction.
I'm guessing you don't consider overtaking to be a change in direction then?Omitted an essential signal to inform other road user of a change in direction.
Maybe you can overtake without changing lane or crossing into the opposing lane?
(The HC is extremely clear on that btw, but you already knew that huh?)
Pulling a fast one before someone notices is asking for trouble - hopefully yours rather than an innocent.
Proper mug's game.
Dr Jekyll said:
RobM77 said:
Yes, getting blocked is an occupational hazard of being a safe driver who lets others know of their intentions. I will continue indicating, and continue getting blocked. Occasionally an old person may take offence when I hold a door open for them, but does that mean I won't give way to elderly people and hold doors open for them? Why be an ahole just because a small fraction of others are?
It helps to do some maths here to appreciate the point that I, and others, are making. I complete on average about three overtakes per day on my commute. Therefore 'hundreds', as you say, would only take me 6 months (for 300-400). I'm not unusual; two others on my small team at work do the same sort of annual mileage commuting. Now, if we consider safe driving as having a 1 in 10 chance of an accident on my commute during my whole working life, that's 50 years of 240 days per year = 12,000 days of driving. 3 overtakes a day means 36,000 overtakes. So 1 in 10 would be 360,000; just over a third of a million before an error occurs - that's what you'd need to hit before you have that 1 in 10 chance during your driving life. These are the rare events that cause accidents and this is what advanced driving is all about - guarding against the extremely rare. A driver who's not advanced may just be guarding against the rare.
This is why I'm saying you can't trust your observation 100%. If I showed you 360,000 photos of a road, where a few of them had a hidden driveway up ahead, a runner crossing the road dressed in black, a motorbike in your blind spot - could you be certain of identifying these hazards correctly in all 360,000? Not in hundreds, but a third of a million? To err is human. This is why indicating is a good backup and failsafe. This is why we do all things like this when driving: shoulder checks before lane changes, rev-matching, both hands on the wheel etc. It's the 1 in a million that gets you. Obviously you don't need to do things that are too onerous (like never leaving your driveway), but indicating is literally just lifting a finger.
As someone above said, these are basics. Yes, advanced drivers view indicating as a form of communication, rather than something done as rote, but that doesn't mean you should forget the basics and the reasons why they exist, it simply means you alter the way and the timing with which you indicate.
These are exactly the arguments used to those who stick to 40 even when conditions permit going up to 60 for a while. There may be something their observation has missed so going slowly is a failsafe. The point they ignore is that the danger of missing something is only reduced by improved observation. If you do fail to recognise a hazard, doing 40 instead of 60 is rather more likely to help you than having an indicator flashing during an ill advised overtake, but you are still likely to be in trouble. It's pretty basic psychology that if you don't act on your observations, the quality of those observations will suffer. You say indicating is 'just lifting a finger'. Yes, indicating indiscriminately takes no effort at all, that's the trouble.hole just because a small fraction of others are?It helps to do some maths here to appreciate the point that I, and others, are making. I complete on average about three overtakes per day on my commute. Therefore 'hundreds', as you say, would only take me 6 months (for 300-400). I'm not unusual; two others on my small team at work do the same sort of annual mileage commuting. Now, if we consider safe driving as having a 1 in 10 chance of an accident on my commute during my whole working life, that's 50 years of 240 days per year = 12,000 days of driving. 3 overtakes a day means 36,000 overtakes. So 1 in 10 would be 360,000; just over a third of a million before an error occurs - that's what you'd need to hit before you have that 1 in 10 chance during your driving life. These are the rare events that cause accidents and this is what advanced driving is all about - guarding against the extremely rare. A driver who's not advanced may just be guarding against the rare.
This is why I'm saying you can't trust your observation 100%. If I showed you 360,000 photos of a road, where a few of them had a hidden driveway up ahead, a runner crossing the road dressed in black, a motorbike in your blind spot - could you be certain of identifying these hazards correctly in all 360,000? Not in hundreds, but a third of a million? To err is human. This is why indicating is a good backup and failsafe. This is why we do all things like this when driving: shoulder checks before lane changes, rev-matching, both hands on the wheel etc. It's the 1 in a million that gets you. Obviously you don't need to do things that are too onerous (like never leaving your driveway), but indicating is literally just lifting a finger.
As someone above said, these are basics. Yes, advanced drivers view indicating as a form of communication, rather than something done as rote, but that doesn't mean you should forget the basics and the reasons why they exist, it simply means you alter the way and the timing with which you indicate.
Concerning your analogy, yes, I can see your point. Many times, doing 40mph is safer, and I frequently drop my speed down in an NSL if I'm not sure about something. However, driving slowly unnecessarily has far more 'cons' than indicating when perhaps it's unnecessary - by speeding up a bit you get places faster and irritate fewer other drivers.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 27th November 14:31
sibriers said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Here's the examiners marking criteria on it, if you're interested: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
@WilliamWoollard - You actually read those criteria bud?Examiner Guidance said:
Serious fault:
Omitted an essential signal to inform other road user of a change in direction.
I'm guessing you don't consider overtaking to be a change in direction then?Omitted an essential signal to inform other road user of a change in direction.
Maybe you can overtake without changing lane or crossing into the opposing lane?
(The HC is extremely clear on that btw, but you already knew that huh?)
Pulling a fast one before someone notices is asking for trouble - hopefully yours rather than an innocent.
Proper mug's game.
If the document meant it's a serious fault to omit an unnecessary signal, or one that didn't inform anybody, it would say so.
waremark said:
Incidentally Rob I am amazed that you manage 3 overtakes on your commute. I am very jealous. On my most regular 30 mile cross country route (Google Maps thinks it is my route to work but work is a euphemism) an overtake of anything faster than bicycle horse or tractor is a rarity. On IAM drives even at Masters level an overtake is a rarity although consideration of an overtake is looked for. I have to go for recreational drives in less crowded parts of the country to practise my overtaking.
I'm jolly lucky, given the traffic a lot of people have to deal with! Since we last met I've moved house and changed my job. I now commute 75 miles a day, most of it on flowing A and B roads. There's never any traffic as such (I usually do the whole trip without stopping); the only hazard is lorries, vans and the odd bus going slowly. There are plenty of good overtaking places and yes, I don't think I've ever done the commute without an overtake; multiple car overtakes are also reasonably common. I even see other people overtaking regularly, which is highly unusual.It's such a perfect road for an Elise, but I'm now racing an MGB V8, so need a larger car to tow it, and we also have a mini RobM77 to take around, so I'm in a 5 series now.
Dr Jekyll said:
Not 'Omitting a signal when changing direction'.
If the document meant it's a serious fault to omit an unnecessary signal, or one that didn't inform anybody, it would say so.
Oh, you mean like the Highway Code does?If the document meant it's a serious fault to omit an unnecessary signal, or one that didn't inform anybody, it would say so.
How does it go again?
You should always
- give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
- use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
- cancel them after use
- make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
- use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority.
And so it continues...
WilliamWoollard said:
Enut said:
So, using that logic, there is no need to indicate when leaving a motorway, assuming your speed means no one needs to alter their driving?
Pretty much yes. Again, why would they need to know? If there’s a chance they will find the information useful then I’ll indicate, if not, why bother?Enut said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Enut said:
So, using that logic, there is no need to indicate when leaving a motorway, assuming your speed means no one needs to alter their driving?
Pretty much yes. Again, why would they need to know? If there’s a chance they will find the information useful then I’ll indicate, if not, why bother?1) For cars behind you in your lane:
1a) So that other cars behind you in your lane know you're about to slow, so can consider a lane change if they want to stay at a steady speed.
1b) If later on during indication, cars catching you will know they won't have to move out to pass you, because you'll be off the road before they catch you.
2) For cars in overtaking lanes relative to you know:
2a) That they'll be staying out for a bit longer to pass you as well, due to you slowing.
2b) If later on during indication, these cars need to know they'll be able to move back earlier than expected, because your space in the lane will be vacated.
3) In the unlikely event of a pedestrian needing to cross the exit sliproad, perhaps from a broken down vehicle to safety:
3a) They'll need to know who's coming off and who isn't. Note that if you're on dipped beam at night these pedestrians won't be visible.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 27th November 16:01
RobM77 said:
Enut said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Enut said:
So, using that logic, there is no need to indicate when leaving a motorway, assuming your speed means no one needs to alter their driving?
Pretty much yes. Again, why would they need to know? If there’s a chance they will find the information useful then I’ll indicate, if not, why bother?1) For cars behind you in your lane:
1a) So that other cars behind you in your lane know you're about to slow, so can consider a lane change if they want to stay at a steady speed.
1b) If later on during indication, cars catching you will know they won't have to move out to pass you, because you'll be off the road before they catch you.
2) For cars in overtaking lanes relative to you know:
2a) That they'll be staying out for a bit longer to pass you as well, due to you slowing.
2b) If later on during indication, these cars need to know they'll be able to move back earlier than expected, because your space in the lane will be vacated.
3) In the unlikely event of a pedestrian needing to cross the exit sliproad, perhaps from a broken down vehicle to safety:
3a) They'll need to know who's coming off and who isn't. Note that if you're on dipped beam at night these pedestrians won't be visible.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 27th November 16:01
'If someone behind you might be planning to overtake you if you don't leave, or has the opportunity to move into lane 1 one you've left, then indicate. But if it makes no difference to anyone else, why indicate?'
I'm with you Rob.
RobM77 said:
Off the top of my head, the requirements for indicating when leaving a motorway are for three different types of road user across five circumstances:
1) For cars behind you in your lane:
1a) So that other cars behind you in your lane know you're about to slow, so can consider a lane change if they want to stay at a steady speed.
1b) If later on during indication, cars catching you will know they won't have to move out to pass you, because you'll be off the road before they catch you.
2) For cars in overtaking lanes relative to you know:
2a) That they'll be staying out for a bit longer to pass you as well, due to you slowing.
2b) If later on during indication, these cars need to know they'll be able to move back earlier than expected, because your space in the lane will be vacated.
3) In the unlikely event of a pedestrian needing to cross the exit sliproad, perhaps from a broken down vehicle to safety:
3a) They'll need to know who's coming off and who isn't. Note that if you're on dipped beam at night these pedestrians won't be visible.
All of which is totally irrelevant to the question of whether you should signal if there is nobody to benefit.1) For cars behind you in your lane:
1a) So that other cars behind you in your lane know you're about to slow, so can consider a lane change if they want to stay at a steady speed.
1b) If later on during indication, cars catching you will know they won't have to move out to pass you, because you'll be off the road before they catch you.
2) For cars in overtaking lanes relative to you know:
2a) That they'll be staying out for a bit longer to pass you as well, due to you slowing.
2b) If later on during indication, these cars need to know they'll be able to move back earlier than expected, because your space in the lane will be vacated.
3) In the unlikely event of a pedestrian needing to cross the exit sliproad, perhaps from a broken down vehicle to safety:
3a) They'll need to know who's coming off and who isn't. Note that if you're on dipped beam at night these pedestrians won't be visible.
Dr Jekyll said:
RobM77 said:
Off the top of my head, the requirements for indicating when leaving a motorway are for three different types of road user across five circumstances:
1) For cars behind you in your lane:
1a) So that other cars behind you in your lane know you're about to slow, so can consider a lane change if they want to stay at a steady speed.
1b) If later on during indication, cars catching you will know they won't have to move out to pass you, because you'll be off the road before they catch you.
2) For cars in overtaking lanes relative to you know:
2a) That they'll be staying out for a bit longer to pass you as well, due to you slowing.
2b) If later on during indication, these cars need to know they'll be able to move back earlier than expected, because your space in the lane will be vacated.
3) In the unlikely event of a pedestrian needing to cross the exit sliproad, perhaps from a broken down vehicle to safety:
3a) They'll need to know who's coming off and who isn't. Note that if you're on dipped beam at night these pedestrians won't be visible.
All of which is totally irrelevant to the question of whether you should signal if there is nobody to benefit.1) For cars behind you in your lane:
1a) So that other cars behind you in your lane know you're about to slow, so can consider a lane change if they want to stay at a steady speed.
1b) If later on during indication, cars catching you will know they won't have to move out to pass you, because you'll be off the road before they catch you.
2) For cars in overtaking lanes relative to you know:
2a) That they'll be staying out for a bit longer to pass you as well, due to you slowing.
2b) If later on during indication, these cars need to know they'll be able to move back earlier than expected, because your space in the lane will be vacated.
3) In the unlikely event of a pedestrian needing to cross the exit sliproad, perhaps from a broken down vehicle to safety:
3a) They'll need to know who's coming off and who isn't. Note that if you're on dipped beam at night these pedestrians won't be visible.
RobM77 said:
3a contains a note about unlit pedestrians at night not being visible on dipped beam, and plenty of the other cases apply to drivers hidden in your blindspot, behind a lorry etc. Furthermore, there's the chance your observation is not perfect every single time, which applies to all of the above.
I hadn't considered the possibility of an unseen pedestrian in the slip road when leaving a motorway/dual carriageway, so whilst I would previously have agreed that there would be no need to indicate when leaving IF THERE IS NO OTHER TRAFFIC, I have now changed my view on that. I think it is safer to indicate in almost all situations. Leaving a motorway with no traffic, in daylight and a clear view of a clear exit slip road, I might be tempted to not indicate, it's a lot of pfaffing about though isn't it, when you can simply move one finger and apply an indication!I disagree that using an indicator in almost all situations makes one more likely to become lazy and less attentive (for a good driver), again referencing a previous comment on here, not yours.
Enut said:
WilliamWoollard said:
Enut said:
So, using that logic, there is no need to indicate when leaving a motorway, assuming your speed means no one needs to alter their driving?
Pretty much yes. Again, why would they need to know? If there’s a chance they will find the information useful then I’ll indicate, if not, why bother?Vaux said:
After a single carriageway overtake, do you indicate left to return to the left lane?
Generally not, on the basis that you are completing the overtake, which you signalled at the start of the manoeuvre. If however I was overtaking more than one car and was returning to the left lane between cars I would do so.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff