"IAM Observer" Dashcam disaster
Discussion
AB said:
I think there's probably an Ashley 'on cam' and an Ashley 'off cam'.
He had an M3 and now a Taycan Turbo S, not sure why you would if you drove like that 24/7.
I do agree, however, you know what people like Ashley are like. He is a safety warrior and I cannot imagine him enjoying 500hp, can you? He had an M3 and now a Taycan Turbo S, not sure why you would if you drove like that 24/7.
Dixy said:
An AD will talk about IPSCA and a track driver will talk about slow in fast out, they are same thing. Perhaps now your GF has passed her test you might both like to join IAM together.
They are not in any way the same at all! A AD on the road is, like I have stated before, a learner but to higher standard as they ability is only marginally less in terms of making progess. A non advanced driver (like my self and most others) can make far more progress by bending the rules slightly and 'pushing on'. This whole IPSCA stuff is just learner talk as they can't remember what to do/which order to do it in. The IPSCA rule is NOT something to carry into your driving life once your test is passed and if you do then I have got bad news for you...
As for track driving, it would be interesting to see what Ashley is like in terms of actual driving skills such as oversteer correction, trail braking etc. as I bet he hasn't got a clue.
As for me and my GF both become AD's together, no thanks. Money like that is much better spent on practising getting her motorway speed up rahter than learning to how to do a pedestrain crossings like a learner...
150234 said:
As for me and my GF both become AD's together, no thanks. Money like that is much better spent on practising getting her motorway speed up rahter than learning to how to do a pedestrain crossings like a learner...
It sounds as though you have very little idea what good AD is like.And personally I think you are making a mistake in encouraging your GF to up her pace at an early stage of driving, less experienced drivers take longer to recognise hazards which may require slowing down. Handling skills are or should be almost irrelevant to keeping safe on the road. A young man I knew was racing well before he had his license. He wrote off two cars on the road in his first year of driving.
The main feature of AD should be early anticipation and recognition of hazards, and improved assessment of safe speed, resulting in more contrast in pace than typical drivers.
Edited by waremark on Sunday 24th July 20:16
waremark said:
It sounds as though you have very little idea what good AD is like.
And personally I think you are making a mistake in encouraging your GF to up her pace at an early stage of driving, less experienced drivers take longer to recognise hazards which may require slowing down. Handling skills are or should be almost irrelevant to keeping safe on the road. A young man I knew was racing well before he had his license. He wrote off two cars on the road in his first year of driving.
The main feature of AD should be early anticipation and recognition of hazards, and improved assessment of safe speed, resulting in more contrast in pace than typical drivers.
I have more than enough of an idea. And personally I think you are making a mistake in encouraging your GF to up her pace at an early stage of driving, less experienced drivers take longer to recognise hazards which may require slowing down. Handling skills are or should be almost irrelevant to keeping safe on the road. A young man I knew was racing well before he had his license. He wrote off two cars on the road in his first year of driving.
The main feature of AD should be early anticipation and recognition of hazards, and improved assessment of safe speed, resulting in more contrast in pace than typical drivers.
Edited by waremark on Sunday 24th July 20:16
She has learnt as a learner (obviously as you need to be able to pass the box ticking exercise that is the driving test) but after almost a week is already getting out of the bad habits of the driving test and moving on.
That's my point, all this early anticipation and hazards etc. are often all non events. 'improved assessment of safe speed, resulting in more contrast in pace to typical drivers'? You just hit the nail on the head as advanced drivers get to caught up in their hazards and risk that they literally waste time. Watch Ashley, his speeds are often a joke.
150234 said:
waremark said:
It sounds as though you have very little idea what good AD is like.
And personally I think you are making a mistake in encouraging your GF to up her pace at an early stage of driving, less experienced drivers take longer to recognise hazards which may require slowing down. Handling skills are or should be almost irrelevant to keeping safe on the road. A young man I knew was racing well before he had his license. He wrote off two cars on the road in his first year of driving.
The main feature of AD should be early anticipation and recognition of hazards, and improved assessment of safe speed, resulting in more contrast in pace than typical drivers.
I have more than enough of an idea. And personally I think you are making a mistake in encouraging your GF to up her pace at an early stage of driving, less experienced drivers take longer to recognise hazards which may require slowing down. Handling skills are or should be almost irrelevant to keeping safe on the road. A young man I knew was racing well before he had his license. He wrote off two cars on the road in his first year of driving.
The main feature of AD should be early anticipation and recognition of hazards, and improved assessment of safe speed, resulting in more contrast in pace than typical drivers.
Edited by waremark on Sunday 24th July 20:16
She has learnt as a learner (obviously as you need to be able to pass the box ticking exercise that is the driving test) but after almost a week is already getting out of the bad habits of the driving test and moving on.
That's my point, all this early anticipation and hazards etc. are often all non events. 'improved assessment of safe speed, resulting in more contrast in pace to typical drivers'? You just hit the nail on the head as advanced drivers get to caught up in their hazards and risk that they literally waste time. Watch Ashley, his speeds are often a joke.
The IPSGA is very much something to take forward into your daily driving on the road. It has been proved to be safer, by people with far more experience than you.
I'm not saying it covers race techniques, or advanced police class 1 etc if that's what you want to do.
But as a step up from Learner, it's excellent.
150234 said:
As for track driving, it would be interesting to see what Ashley is like in terms of actual driving skills such as oversteer correction, trail braking etc. as I bet he hasn't got a clue.
… “oversteer correction, trail braking etc “… I think you might be confusing “driving skills” with “handling skills”. Advanced road driving is predominantly about driving skills, not handling skills. So, I would suggest, it would be singularly uninteresting and not relevant to this discussion to see what Ashley’s handling skills are like.
As others have already said, there appears to be a degree of confusion in your descriptive narrative and understanding of the nature of advanced road driving.
What would be interesting to know is how and where you have obtained your, may I suggest, somewhat limited understanding of what advanced road driving actually entails. Is it just YouTube, or do you have personal experience?
I would be interested to know.
M4cruiser said:
Well 150234, I've just read all your recent posts on this thread and you haven't a clue. Someone has to say it.
The IPSGA is very much something to take forward into your daily driving on the road. It has been proved to be safer, by people with far more experience than you.
I'm not saying it covers race techniques, or advanced police class 1 etc if that's what you want to do.
But as a step up from Learner, it's excellent.
It just isn't, you cannot argue that. The IPSGA is very much something to take forward into your daily driving on the road. It has been proved to be safer, by people with far more experience than you.
I'm not saying it covers race techniques, or advanced police class 1 etc if that's what you want to do.
But as a step up from Learner, it's excellent.
It is simply bimbling around like a learner but with slighly more pace. There is nothing 'advanced' about the advanced driving test and there is nothing on there you can't do/learn out and about on your own.
It may have been 'proved to be safe' but I would argue that it's almost too safe and is too cautious JUST LIKE LEARNERS
It's definitely not a step up from a learner.
150234 said:
M4cruiser said:
Well 150234, I've just read all your recent posts on this thread and you haven't a clue. Someone has to say it.
The IPSGA is very much something to take forward into your daily driving on the road. It has been proved to be safer, by people with far more experience than you.
I'm not saying it covers race techniques, or advanced police class 1 etc if that's what you want to do.
But as a step up from Learner, it's excellent.
It just isn't, you cannot argue that. The IPSGA is very much something to take forward into your daily driving on the road. It has been proved to be safer, by people with far more experience than you.
I'm not saying it covers race techniques, or advanced police class 1 etc if that's what you want to do.
But as a step up from Learner, it's excellent.
It is simply bimbling around like a learner but with slighly more pace. There is nothing 'advanced' about the advanced driving test and there is nothing on there you can't do/learn out and about on your own.
It may have been 'proved to be safe' but I would argue that it's almost too safe and is too cautious JUST LIKE LEARNERS
It's definitely not a step up from a learner.
Could you list the top 6 attributes, in order of importance, that you personally believe make somebody a good driver.
johnao said:
… “oversteer correction, trail braking etc “… I think you might be confusing “driving skills” with “handling skills”.
Advanced road driving is predominantly about driving skills, not handling skills. So, I would suggest, it would be singularly uninteresting and not relevant to this discussion to see what Ashley’s handling skills are like.
As others have already said, there appears to be a degree of confusion in your descriptive narrative and understanding of the nature of advanced road driving.
What would be interesting to know is how and where you have obtained your, may I suggest, somewhat limited understanding of what advanced road driving actually entails. Is it just YouTube, or do you have personal experience?
I would be interested to know.
You have missed my point. To drive on the road you DO NOT need driving skills as it is simply just 'point and shoot' to use a Call of Duty phrase. Advanced road driving is predominantly about driving skills, not handling skills. So, I would suggest, it would be singularly uninteresting and not relevant to this discussion to see what Ashley’s handling skills are like.
As others have already said, there appears to be a degree of confusion in your descriptive narrative and understanding of the nature of advanced road driving.
What would be interesting to know is how and where you have obtained your, may I suggest, somewhat limited understanding of what advanced road driving actually entails. Is it just YouTube, or do you have personal experience?
I would be interested to know.
How could it be uninteresting to see Ashley's handling skills? I think it would rival Micheal McIntyre for comedic value...
You learn to tick boxes in the test and then you actually learn how to 'drive' once you pass and get some practice in on your own. The advanced test is simply a scaled up learner and doesn't teach you much more than being a learner. You all seem to way overthink driving with all this 'risk' and 'hazard perception' and all that. It is quite simply a case of get in and drive for most people and that's how it should be.
The advanced test is simply unnecessary and gains you almost nothing that you don't just learn with time.
vonhosen said:
Please indulge me.
Could you list the top 6 attributes, in order of importance, that you personally believe make somebody a good driver.
1) High overall road speed (and yes I am advoating speeding here as our limits are very low) Could you list the top 6 attributes, in order of importance, that you personally believe make somebody a good driver.
2) Extensive knowledge of static speed camera locations as well as common mobile vans spots in your local but also wider area.
3) Confidence to overtake on A roads but also within the cities as well.
4) Good mental pace for decision making ie. is the gap big enough etc.
5) Good car control/knowledge ie. knowing your brakes and their capability plus being aware of your cars 'get up and go' when you hit the loud pedal.
6) Ability to handle external and internal distractions with ease ie. driving past some fit birds or even opening a Ginsters steak slice or can of Coke.
None of that can be taught on a test, only practiced through time and by just hammering some miles under your belt.
I have now worked out that he is taking the p. Or at least I hope he is, if not heaven preserve his GF.
And by the way, you do know that IAM is dominated by advanced police drivers and instructors? And that some of those you are talking to have either been trained by advanced police instructors or have been police advanced instructors?
And by the way, you do know that IAM is dominated by advanced police drivers and instructors? And that some of those you are talking to have either been trained by advanced police instructors or have been police advanced instructors?
Edited by waremark on Monday 25th July 00:37
150234 said:
vonhosen said:
Please indulge me.
Could you list the top 6 attributes, in order of importance, that you personally believe make somebody a good driver.
1) High overall road speed (and yes I am advoating speeding here as our limits are very low) Could you list the top 6 attributes, in order of importance, that you personally believe make somebody a good driver.
2) Extensive knowledge of static speed camera locations as well as common mobile vans spots in your local but also wider area.
3) Confidence to overtake on A roads but also within the cities as well.
4) Good mental pace for decision making ie. is the gap big enough etc.
5) Good car control/knowledge ie. knowing your brakes and their capability plus being aware of your cars 'get up and go' when you hit the loud pedal.
6) Ability to handle external and internal distractions with ease ie. driving past some fit birds or even opening a Ginsters steak slice or can of Coke.
None of that can be taught on a test, only practiced through time and by just hammering some miles under your belt.
Attending a track day a few years back there were 2 local lads who had won their attendance in a local paper.
Chatting to them beforehand they had exactly your view on the instructors that were there. Their first session was yellow flagged several times as they went grass cutting and red flagged to get them out of the kitty litter.
The time with the instructor was then made mandatory and after that they started to have some fun. Chatting to them at lunch they made 2 interesting comments, how much quicker they could now get through a series of bends and how much they still thought they could learn.
Chatting to them beforehand they had exactly your view on the instructors that were there. Their first session was yellow flagged several times as they went grass cutting and red flagged to get them out of the kitty litter.
The time with the instructor was then made mandatory and after that they started to have some fun. Chatting to them at lunch they made 2 interesting comments, how much quicker they could now get through a series of bends and how much they still thought they could learn.
150234 said:
vonhosen said:
Please indulge me.
Could you list the top 6 attributes, in order of importance, that you personally believe make somebody a good driver.
1) High overall road speed (and yes I am advoating speeding here as our limits are very low) Could you list the top 6 attributes, in order of importance, that you personally believe make somebody a good driver.
2) Extensive knowledge of static speed camera locations as well as common mobile vans spots in your local but also wider area.
3) Confidence to overtake on A roads but also within the cities as well.
4) Good mental pace for decision making ie. is the gap big enough etc.
5) Good car control/knowledge ie. knowing your brakes and their capability plus being aware of your cars 'get up and go' when you hit the loud pedal.
6) Ability to handle external and internal distractions with ease ie. driving past some fit birds or even opening a Ginsters steak slice or can of Coke.
None of that can be taught on a test, only practiced through time and by just hammering some miles under your belt.
Many moons ago I used to be an observer and tended to have the "difficult" candidates pushed in my direction. I had a couple of people with this type of attitude and they were by far the worst of first assessment and hardest to teach. Everything was an up hill battle.
Of those 6 "attributes" I would only give you point 4 as even remotely defensive in nature and that is marginal and only really in the context of assessing safety distances etc.
Edited by Starfighter on Monday 25th July 10:01
150234 said:
The advanced test is simply unnecessary and gains you almost nothing that you don't just learn with time.
If you don't want to do it, fine, it's not compulsory. But you're very wrong, and clearly have no idea what AD is. You know you're in the AD forum here, where most people DO know what it is, so maybe when they say you're wrong, you might take that to heart and wonder if it's just possible that you are?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Krug...
Just a few thoughts...
1) High overall road speed (and yes I am advoating speeding here as our limits are very low)
Where? Do you significantly exceed the speed limits in say, 30 limits? Part of allegedly good driving is managing the expectation of others. Simple example - it is dumb to flash past a junction at a higher speed where turning traffic (turning out rather than turning in) is assessing your speed on the expected speed and how far away from the junction. Yes, you can jam the anchors on is necessary, but that's hardly great driving having to react to something last minute
2) Extensive knowledge of static speed camera locations as well as common mobile vans spots in your local but also wider area.
So, basically you're saying know where you could drastically exceed the speed limit
3) Confidence to overtake on A roads but also within the cities as well.
Former, absolutely. Not sure about the latter unless 1) extends to city areas.
4) Good mental pace for decision making ie. is the gap big enough etc.
So all about the overtaking then...
5) Good car control/knowledge ie. knowing your brakes and their capability plus being aware of your cars 'get up and go' when you hit the loud pedal.
What about the getting around the corners at a safe speed, or is it all about the straight line?
6) Ability to handle external and internal distractions with ease ie. driving past some fit birds or even opening a Ginsters steak slice or can of Coke.
Top trolling... not that I'm against a bit of amateur ornithology myself
FWIW I'm a member of neither IAM nor ROSPA. I might have paddled a little at the edges of the pool of advanced driving though. And yes, a large number of 'practitioners' of the 'art' are so far up themselves that they can lick their own tonsils.
My personal 6:
1) Being able to stop before hitting something/someone and giving everyone else as much chance as possible to follow the same rule
2) Realising that every driver on the road is an idiot, including me. We all do things that make everyone else go WTF
3) An accurate sense of pace - being as happy driving really slowly as opening the taps. A sign of the true greats is their ability to ease their way through a town centre with everything happening around them but not to them.
4) Good tool selection. Sometimes hard braking combining heel and to into a tightening corner is just what is needed, sometimes just slowing the f
k down is better.
5) An ability to make progress - chosing to overtake when you're actually going to make the car behind disappear rather than overtaking just because you can. Hedge hopping 20 cars is normally a sign of someone whose bks are controlling their brain.
6) An ability to not scare the natives. Understanding that the second person to the accident scene is the one with the best view of your driving leading up to an impact. For example easing passed on an overtake and moving away at a reasonable speed gives a far better impression that opening the taps as wide as possible.
1) High overall road speed (and yes I am advoating speeding here as our limits are very low)
Where? Do you significantly exceed the speed limits in say, 30 limits? Part of allegedly good driving is managing the expectation of others. Simple example - it is dumb to flash past a junction at a higher speed where turning traffic (turning out rather than turning in) is assessing your speed on the expected speed and how far away from the junction. Yes, you can jam the anchors on is necessary, but that's hardly great driving having to react to something last minute
2) Extensive knowledge of static speed camera locations as well as common mobile vans spots in your local but also wider area.
So, basically you're saying know where you could drastically exceed the speed limit
3) Confidence to overtake on A roads but also within the cities as well.
Former, absolutely. Not sure about the latter unless 1) extends to city areas.
4) Good mental pace for decision making ie. is the gap big enough etc.
So all about the overtaking then...
5) Good car control/knowledge ie. knowing your brakes and their capability plus being aware of your cars 'get up and go' when you hit the loud pedal.
What about the getting around the corners at a safe speed, or is it all about the straight line?
6) Ability to handle external and internal distractions with ease ie. driving past some fit birds or even opening a Ginsters steak slice or can of Coke.
Top trolling... not that I'm against a bit of amateur ornithology myself
FWIW I'm a member of neither IAM nor ROSPA. I might have paddled a little at the edges of the pool of advanced driving though. And yes, a large number of 'practitioners' of the 'art' are so far up themselves that they can lick their own tonsils.
My personal 6:
1) Being able to stop before hitting something/someone and giving everyone else as much chance as possible to follow the same rule
2) Realising that every driver on the road is an idiot, including me. We all do things that make everyone else go WTF
3) An accurate sense of pace - being as happy driving really slowly as opening the taps. A sign of the true greats is their ability to ease their way through a town centre with everything happening around them but not to them.
4) Good tool selection. Sometimes hard braking combining heel and to into a tightening corner is just what is needed, sometimes just slowing the f
k down is better.5) An ability to make progress - chosing to overtake when you're actually going to make the car behind disappear rather than overtaking just because you can. Hedge hopping 20 cars is normally a sign of someone whose b
ks are controlling their brain.6) An ability to not scare the natives. Understanding that the second person to the accident scene is the one with the best view of your driving leading up to an impact. For example easing passed on an overtake and moving away at a reasonable speed gives a far better impression that opening the taps as wide as possible.
StressedDave said:
My personal 6
Top one for me is having an enthusiastic attitude towards learning and improving your driving and accepting you're not the driving god you think you are! If someone can't accept there are valuable skills to be learnt on an advanced driving course then there's no hope!Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff