"IAM Observer" Dashcam disaster
Discussion
150234 said:
Have a look at this, embarrassing in my opinion and similar to how a leaner would drive.
https://youtu.be/6zxrnaA9YsM
While I'd like to make it clear I don't endorse much of anything you say, you're right about that test, it's a complete embarrassment to driving in general, and the fact that it's an "advanced" pass is just ridiculous.https://youtu.be/6zxrnaA9YsM
Probably deserves a thread all to itself.
modellista said:
150234 said:
Have a look at this, embarrassing in my opinion and similar to how a leaner would drive.
https://youtu.be/6zxrnaA9YsM
While I'd like to make it clear I don't endorse much of anything you say, you're right about that test, it's a complete embarrassment to driving in general, and the fact that it's an "advanced" pass is just ridiculous.https://youtu.be/6zxrnaA9YsM
Probably deserves a thread all to itself.
The examiner will have been looking for evidence of the 4’s during the drive. My guess is that the examiner will have seen that the drive was Safe, Systematc (almost), Smooth, but with not a lot of Sparkle. On that basis, the examiner was probably happy to give the candidate the benefit of the doubt bearing in mind the weather conditions. So, it’s unlikely to be the best test he’s seen, but good enough to scrape a pass. But, without the examiner’s detailed feedback we’ll never know.
What is clear though, having prepared almost one hundred candidates for IAM entry level and Masters, and RoSPA tests, over the past twenty+ years, is that it would be wholly wrong to base one’s opinion of advanced driving on a single YouTube video.
Edited by johnao on Saturday 30th July 15:40
I lost the IAM will to live on my second observed drive when the observer said I was driving too aggressively. I was on my very best driving miss daisy behaviour and wondered what I'd missed with the trainee observer in the back piped up that he completely disagreed!
It would have been ok if on my first drive I'd not had to put up with the most condescending twaddle about skid risk on roundabouts you've ever heard.
I abandoned ship so to speak!
150234 is still talking utter twaddle about how they drive.
It would have been ok if on my first drive I'd not had to put up with the most condescending twaddle about skid risk on roundabouts you've ever heard.
I abandoned ship so to speak!
150234 is still talking utter twaddle about how they drive.
johnao said:
It’s a bit difficult to pass judgment on this particular test without having access to the examiner’s detailed feedback. Was the candidate marked down for lack of progress; and two missed NSLs? Did the examiner allow some leeway for the weather conditions? The candidate mentioned that he didn’t have an observer because of lockdown. I would like to think that the drive would have had a bit more sparkle had an observer been involved.
The examiner will have been looking for evidence of the 4’s during the drive. My guess is that the examiner will have seen that the drive was Safe, Systematc (almost), Smooth, but with not a lot of Sparkle. On that basis, the examiner was probably happy to give the candidate the benefit of the doubt bearing in mind the weather conditions. So, it’s unlikely to be the best test he’s seen, but good enough to scrape a pass. But, without the examiner’s detailed feedback we’ll never know.
What is clear though, having prepared almost one hundred candidates for IAM entry level and Masters, and RoSPA tests, over the past twenty+ years, is that it would be wholly wrong to base one’s opinion of advanced driving on a single YouTube video.
Hi John, I'd like to discuss this a bit more with you.The examiner will have been looking for evidence of the 4’s during the drive. My guess is that the examiner will have seen that the drive was Safe, Systematc (almost), Smooth, but with not a lot of Sparkle. On that basis, the examiner was probably happy to give the candidate the benefit of the doubt bearing in mind the weather conditions. So, it’s unlikely to be the best test he’s seen, but good enough to scrape a pass. But, without the examiner’s detailed feedback we’ll never know.
What is clear though, having prepared almost one hundred candidates for IAM entry level and Masters, and RoSPA tests, over the past twenty+ years, is that it would be wholly wrong to base one’s opinion of advanced driving on a single YouTube video.
Edited by johnao on Saturday 30th July 15:40
Fair enough, let's look at this through the 4s.
Safe? Can travelling at significantly below the speed limit be safe? Only inasmuch as not travelling at all is safest of all. Conversely, the driver is providing a constant "moving roadblock" hazard to other road users for significant periods of time. I would not consider driving at 30mph in a NSL to be safe in a normal vehicle under normal circumstances.
Systematic? IPSGA? TUG? The driver has clearly failed to take and use information correctly regarding speed limits. Positioning is erratic. Speed is completely wrong for the conditions a lot of the time. Gears - an auto car but he still manages to make it kick down at inappropriate times. Acceleration? Minimal.
Smooth? Yes. Driving slowly everywhere generally is.
Sparkle? As you admit, no.
As an IAM "associate" myself I really could do with getting to the bottom of this - I pride myself on making progress while observing the system, and the fact that this is a pass is making me wonder what I'm bothering for!
modellista said:
johnao said:
It’s a bit difficult to pass judgment on this particular test without having access to the examiner’s detailed feedback. Was the candidate marked down for lack of progress; and two missed NSLs? Did the examiner allow some leeway for the weather conditions? The candidate mentioned that he didn’t have an observer because of lockdown. I would like to think that the drive would have had a bit more sparkle had an observer been involved.
The examiner will have been looking for evidence of the 4’s during the drive. My guess is that the examiner will have seen that the drive was Safe, Systematc (almost), Smooth, but with not a lot of Sparkle. On that basis, the examiner was probably happy to give the candidate the benefit of the doubt bearing in mind the weather conditions. So, it’s unlikely to be the best test he’s seen, but good enough to scrape a pass. But, without the examiner’s detailed feedback we’ll never know.
What is clear though, having prepared almost one hundred candidates for IAM entry level and Masters, and RoSPA tests, over the past twenty+ years, is that it would be wholly wrong to base one’s opinion of advanced driving on a single YouTube video.
Hi John, I'd like to discuss this a bit more with you.The examiner will have been looking for evidence of the 4’s during the drive. My guess is that the examiner will have seen that the drive was Safe, Systematc (almost), Smooth, but with not a lot of Sparkle. On that basis, the examiner was probably happy to give the candidate the benefit of the doubt bearing in mind the weather conditions. So, it’s unlikely to be the best test he’s seen, but good enough to scrape a pass. But, without the examiner’s detailed feedback we’ll never know.
What is clear though, having prepared almost one hundred candidates for IAM entry level and Masters, and RoSPA tests, over the past twenty+ years, is that it would be wholly wrong to base one’s opinion of advanced driving on a single YouTube video.
Edited by johnao on Saturday 30th July 15:40
Fair enough, let's look at this through the 4s.
Safe? Can travelling at significantly below the speed limit be safe? Only inasmuch as not travelling at all is safest of all. Conversely, the driver is providing a constant "moving roadblock" hazard to other road users for significant periods of time. I would not consider driving at 30mph in a NSL to be safe in a normal vehicle under normal circumstances.
Systematic? IPSGA? TUG? The driver has clearly failed to take and use information correctly regarding speed limits. Positioning is erratic. Speed is completely wrong for the conditions a lot of the time. Gears - an auto car but he still manages to make it kick down at inappropriate times. Acceleration? Minimal.
Smooth? Yes. Driving slowly everywhere generally is.
Sparkle? As you admit, no.
As an IAM "associate" myself I really could do with getting to the bottom of this - I pride myself on making progress while observing the system, and the fact that this is a pass is making me wonder what I'm bothering for!
I will try and answer your query in general terms as that will probably be of more help to you in guiding you on what can be an interesting and rewarding experience.
I did say this won’t have been the best candidate the examiner has ever seen. Someone driving to the criteria you have listed would be more in line with what I would expect from a good IAM candidate. You can take considerable comfort from the very pertinent analysis you provide; it demonstrates a good sense of what it means to be a good advanced driver. The way that I regard the IAM is that it is a broad church, catering for drivers that may be a little bit nervous and who are looking to improve their confidence, all the way though to the more enthusiastic drivers, like you and I, who may be looking to tackle IAM Masters a year or two after passing the entry test. Many of my fellow enthusiasts also regularly take the RoSPA tri-annual test. RoSPA will grade your test bronze,silver, or gold. So there’s plenty of opportunities to improve your driving and meet like- minded drivers out there. I am also an IAM Master’s mentor, and a RoSPA tutor for my sins!
Having again read your response above, my best advice is to ignore the YouTube video our friend has provided, it doesn’t appear to represent a “good” IAM entry level drive, but it “did” for this candidate on this particular occasion. As I said before, I would dearly like to read the examiner’s detailed feed-back notes.
How do you feel about your observer? Do you feel that you are both singing from the same hymn sheet? If you do then you are onto a winner; if not, then speak to your group’s Chief Observer. He/she is likely to be an enthusiast like your self. Suggest a drive with the Chief Observer, and/or request a new observer.
Anyway, I wish you well on your quest to becoming an advanced driver and the rewards it brings.
And, finally, I promise, when it comes to advanced-driving be your own person, don’t be comparing yourself to someone who appears to have just about scraped a basic entry level pass and whose YouTube video has been linked to this thread for purposes of mockery by someone who has little or no knowledge of advanced driving skills.
Hope that helps.
Edited by johnao on Friday 5th August 19:43
johnao said:
don’t be comparing yourself to someone who appears to have just about scraped a basic entry level pass
I know we can't really tell about the circs, but it's disappointing that this is a thing. Despite my discomfort with my IAM experience, I like and recognise good driving and I'd rather like to be able to see it from people who have made the effort to do the learning and pass the test.BertBert said:
johnao said:
don’t be comparing yourself to someone who appears to have just about scraped a basic entry level pass
I know we can't really tell about the circs, but it's disappointing that this is a thing. Despite my discomfort with my IAM experience, I like and recognise good driving and I'd rather like to be able to see it from people who have made the effort to do the learning and pass the test.waremark said:
Providing at least some value has been added for the candidate by going through the process, does it actually matter how high a level their driving has reached?
Any improvement from the learning process is to be applauded. But if the test is to measure against a specific standard, passing without reaching it is a poor idea.BertBert said:
Any improvement from the learning process is to be applauded. But if the test is to measure against a specific standard, passing without reaching it is a poor idea.
Are candidates passing without reaching a relevant standard, or is it that some are disappointed at the low level of the standard?Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff