Why is this in the driving test?

[TVRBRZ]

TVRBRZ Jnr is learning to drive. One of the potential assessed manoeuvres is to move over to the other side of the road (facing oncoming traffic) and then reverse two cars lengths.

I used the omnipotent YouTube to look at the manoevre and there is an instruction video from a school showing it. In the vid you see 2-3 cars barreling along and having to stop when they see they are blocked by the school car facing them on their side of the road. All seems a bit daft if not dangerous to me.

Occasionally I have driven over to the rh side and then reverse parallel parked. Not perfect as I am then facing the wrong way and driving out is awkward for vision, but then if you see a spot when parking is scarce you do what you need to do to grab the space.

I'm struggling to see a situation where I would replicate the test manoevre in the real world. Why is this in the test and what happened to the good old 3 point turn and reversing round a corner?

Thanks! (the luddite who passed 35 years ago and hasn't given it a thought since!)

[Richard-D]

Seems odd to me too. I would try and avoid doing that unless there were no other alternatives. Even then I wouldn't like getting out of that spot without a passenger.

[caiss4]

This was introduced to the test by DVSA at the same time they brought in independent driving using a satnav(as opposed to just reading road signs). The justification was that it was a reflection of 'current' driving behaviour.

Reverse round the corner and turn in the road were dropped from the test in favour driving in to a parking bay and pulling up on the RHS.

As an ADI I struggled to justify this manoeuvre as when I learnt to drive I was discouraged from ever doing this for the reasons you cite but if you look around you'll probably find more cars parked up facing the wrong way than you'll see folk performing a reverse around a corner or even a turn in the road.

BTW, I still used to teach reverse around a corner and turn in the road even though it wasn't tested.

[CheesecakeRunner]

Explains why near me there seems to be a rash of people parking facing on-coming traffic with their headlights blazing away, happily blinding on-coming drivers and preventing them seeing if anything is coming before they pass.

[TVRBRZ]

Thanks Caiss4.

Extrapolating the same logic (test reflects driving behaviour), will we see mid lane hogging and using fog lights in rain in future years.....?

[Reg Local]

There was a minor hullabaloo when this manoeuvre was introduced into the test a few years ago (apologies for linking to the Daily Mail):

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-5...

My own opinion matches those already expressed. I cannot understand why the DVSA came to the conclusion that this was an appropriate manoeuvre to include in the driving test. Helpfully, the Deputy Chief Driving Instructor gives an explanation in the above article:

Gordon Witherspoon deputy chief driving examiner at the DVSA said:

The new manoeuvre reflects how people actually drive and it is vital they have the knowledge and skills to do it safely, which is why it is included.

So, thats alright then. The manoeuvre arguably goes against specific Highway Code advice, but because it “reflects how people actually drive”, it’s ok to include it in the driving test.

I’m looking forward to further changes to make the test reflect how people actually drive.

42mph everywhere, irrespective of the speed limit.
Sitting in lane 2 from the moment they enter the motorway to the moment they leave.
As above, but lane 3 on 4 lane motorways.
Parking like a tt outside schools at 3.15pm.
Updating facebook status whilst driving.

Etc. Ad infinitum.

[WilliamWoollard]

The real reason the POOR (pull over on right) maneuver was introduced is that legally the driving test has to include an element of reversing. The thinking was that examiners were spending too much of the test driving around trying to find somewhere to do a parallel park or reverse around the corner that much of the driving test was spent on quiet residential roads with little traffic. Not much of a test. This exercise can be done on any test route in any town. OK, it is directly against highway code advice but if it saves the examiners a few minutes on a driving test that is obviously more important.

Same as the sat nav driving. Nothing to do with road safety, just give every examiner a sat nav and they need to spend less time route learning when they go to different test centres, they can simply set the sat nav and not worry about getting lost in an unfamiliar town.

The whole thing is a con. And don't get me started on driving tests doing bay parks on private property without permission...

[TVRBRZ]

Interesting about the petition from the instructors and examiners. The financial logic of speeding up the test firs, as does more time assessing independent driving on busier roads, but that is still pretty appalling to introduce an exercise that puts the instructor/examiner, student and the other road user they meet in danger.

Hopefully it will never happen but it would be a press to test if there was a fatality due to the exercise being performed and the family of the deceased were to sue the DVSA for bringing in a manoevre that is against the Highway Code.....

[Reg Local]

WilliamWoollard said:

...they need to spend less time route learning when they go to different test centres...

This is a really good observation & something I hadn’t considered. DVSA will want to maximise the flexibility of their testing regime and having examiners locked in to working from one or two test centres because they need to have detailed knowledge of the test routes & safe locations for manoeuvres is fairly inflexible.

Their preference will be to have a pool of examiners who can work from any test centre, so in that light the changes to the test make more sense. Finding a place to pull over on the right, for instance, is easy for the examiner - they can identify an appropriate spot well in advance without having any local knowledge.

If this is the reason, it would have been better for DVSA to have been honest about it though, rather than pretending its for the benefit of the candidates.

[Majorslow]

Many ADI's like me thought this was setting a poor example and contradictory to the HWC.

If your son gets this on his test it's the easiest reverse manoeuvre. Just advise him to make sure car and wheels are parallel to kerb, then easy as pie to reverse in a straight line

The idea of reversing two car lengths is so that once back from a car you may have parked in front of you should have a decent enough view to pull out safely. Yeah like there is always that amount of room!!

I also still teach the "left reverse" and "turn in the road" (3 point turn in old money)

as if you live on a busy road reversing onto your driveway may be the only way you will be able to get out of it.

Also the T-I-R could be important on a test as one of my customers found out last year when he took the wrong exit off a roundabout into a no thru road. The examiner just said to him that he had better just turn it around. If I had not shown him how he would no doubt have screwed it up and failed.

Any decent instructor will still teach these now "dropped" skills for all round training for "post test driving"

good luck to your nipper !

[Toltec]

Reg Local said:

Etc. Ad infinitum.

Reversing off the drive across to the opposite side of the road.

[66mpg]

Minibus drivers receiving training under the MIDAS scheme are taught to do a reverse around a right hand corner, rather than a left hand one. There appears to be two good reasons for this:

1. The kerb is on the driver’s side and so more visible and easier to follow.
2. All the reversing is done in the same direction as any approaching traffic is travelling.

The manoeuvre consists of pulling up on the right, after the junction, reversing round the corner, continuing back far enough to allow the vehicle to regain the left hand side of the road by the time it reaches the give way line when driving forward again.

It looks like the car test has incorporated the first part of this manoeuvre.

[eAyeAddio]

TVRBRZ said:

Thanks Caiss4.

Extrapolating the same logic (test reflects driving behaviour), will we see mid lane hogging and using fog lights in rain in future years.....?

It is quite acceptable to use fog lights in the rain providing that visibility is <100m.

As far as mid-lane hogging is concerned, I am happy to report that Merseyside traffic police are doing their best to ticket offenders one car at a time........

[TVRBRZ]

I'm glad to report that TVRBRZ Jnr passed his test first time with no minor errors. No need to do the reverse on the other side of the road.

So not something I shall fret about till Miss TVRBRZ needs to do the same in a few years.

I shall expect mid-lane hogging, foglamps on and driving at 50mph in both NSL and villages to be assessed by then. No doubt the only cars on sale will be PHEV or hybrid white SUVs and the parking will be done by the automated systems....

[mac96]

TVRBRZ said:

I'm glad to report that TVRBRZ Jnr passed his test first time with no minor errors. No need to do the reverse on the other side of the road.

So not something I shall fret about till Miss TVRBRZ needs to do the same in a few years.

I shall expect mid-lane hogging, foglamps on and driving at 50mph in both NSL and villages to be assessed by then. No doubt the only cars on sale will be PHEV or hybrid white SUVs and the parking will be done by the automated systems....

On Gordon Witherspoon's logic I will also expect to be overtaken by learners on test travelling at 90mph on dual carriageways in heavy rain...

Good on TVRBRZ Junior though!

[Majorslow]

TVRBRZ said:

I'm glad to report that TVRBRZ Jnr passed his test first time with no minor errors. No need to do the reverse on the other side of the road.

So not something I shall fret about till Miss TVRBRZ needs to do the same in a few years.

I shall expect mid-lane hogging, foglamps on and driving at 50mph in both NSL and villages to be assessed by then. No doubt the only cars on sale will be PHEV or hybrid white SUVs and the parking will be done by the automated systems....

That is to his credit, it's very hard to get a no fault pass, in 6 years of teaching I have only had 4 (one was my daughter.... i felt sorry for her brother as there was no way he could beat her).

Secret now is for him to get through his first 12 months without a "dink".... or points

[TVRBRZ]

Majorslow said:

That is to his credit, it's very hard to get a no fault pass, in 6 years of teaching I have only had 4 (one was my daughter.... i felt sorry for her brother as there was no way he could beat her).

Secret now is for him to get through his first 12 months without a "dink".... or points

Ah that is nice to know, thank you Majorslow.

I'm a flying instructor by background and there are numerous studies that show the accident rate for newly qualified pilots. Once they are over 250 hrs the accident rate drops, has another spike at 500 hrs (overconfidence) and then gets lower as experience increases. I would imagine it is similar for new drivers. They way we "help" new pilots get through their early experiences is by recommending advanced training commensurate with experience.

TVRBRZ Jnr is now to be fed a diet of the Pass Plus scheme, skid pan experience and perhaps a rally or track day experience. Hopefully enhancing his skills will go hand in hand with advancing maturity and judgement.

Hopefully he will avoid some of the scrapes and muppetry his old man has had!

[Majorslow]

TVRBRZ said:

Majorslow said:

That is to his credit, it's very hard to get a no fault pass, in 6 years of teaching I have only had 4 (one was my daughter.... i felt sorry for her brother as there was no way he could beat her).

Secret now is for him to get through his first 12 months without a "dink".... or points

Ah that is nice to know, thank you Majorslow.

I'm a flying instructor by background and there are numerous studies that show the accident rate for newly qualified pilots. Once they are over 250 hrs the accident rate drops, has another spike at 500 hrs (overconfidence) and then gets lower as experience increases. I would imagine it is similar for new drivers. They way we "help" new pilots get through their early experiences is by recommending advanced training commensurate with experience.

TVRBRZ Jnr is now to be fed a diet of the Pass Plus scheme, skid pan experience and perhaps a rally or track day experience. Hopefully enhancing his skills will go hand in hand with advancing maturity and judgement.


Hopefully he will avoid some of the scrapes and muppetry his old man has had!

You could also get him onto the IAM or ROSPA courses for discounted rates owing to his age. Having an "advanced" test under his belt can also help reduce insurance premiums.

Having a dad who flies planes will also I imagine helped with his temperament. When we see new customers the influence of family does come out!!

good luck

[TVRBRZ]

Sounds like a plan! Cheers!!!