Roundabout overtake.

[Solocle]

It's a manoeuvre I keep in my toolbox - for instance, once or twice moving out to overtake stuff, and then two miles later (@ 40 mph) there's still been no return chance! That can happen if there's traffic "overtaking" ahead of you. I'd rather loop around a roundabout than try to force my way into an inappropriately small gap.

[Nurburgsingh]

I remember when the penny dropped with me and I started doing this.. 30ish years ago as a student in Bristol. The M32 northbound exit at Eastville. The first exit off the roundabout is a short 2 lane section, the left lane went to Tesco(and now Ikea) and the right went up Muller Road.
The M32 Slip road had is marked Lane 1 Left. Lane 2 Straight Lane 3 Straight/right - 99% of the people in lane 1 want to go to Tesco and the queue would be stupidly long, so down the right hand lane, round the roundabout and into Lane 2 of the short DC and away..

Thinking about it... the places where I've done it recently have been to avoid sitting in the queues for places I am not trying to get to.

[5s Alive]

I've done this on occasion exiting westbound on the Edinburgh City bypass when heavy traffic was backing up on the inside slip almost into the flow of traffic and there have been a few rear end shunts because of this.

I would attempt to avoid the ire of those in the queue by going down to the second roundabout then back up. One chap who was now at the front of the queue turning left must have noticed me passing him twice as he beeped and flipped the bird - but was sporting a huge grin as he did so.

One of the better city bypass experiences.

[Sporky]

Armchair Expert said:

Really!!!

The offence of driving without reasonable consideration under s.3 RTA 1988 is committed only when other persons are inconvenienced by the manner of the defendant's driving, see s.3ZA(4) RTA 1988.

So how does that apply when you do a full circut of a roundabout?

I am posting as a non-combatant.

You are potentially inconveniencing them because as you come around, they must not enter the roundabout until you've passed. Your loop will slow down the queue that you passed, more so than if you had gone straight over or stayed in the queue.

[slipknotted]

Sporky said:

Armchair Expert said:

Really!!!

The offence of driving without reasonable consideration under s.3 RTA 1988 is committed only when other persons are inconvenienced by the manner of the defendant's driving, see s.3ZA(4) RTA 1988.

So how does that apply when you do a full circut of a roundabout?

I am posting as a non-combatant.

You are potentially inconveniencing them because as you come around, they must not enter the roundabout until you've passed. Your loop will slow down the queue that you passed, more so than if you had gone straight over or stayed in the queue.

Also posting as a non-combatant

I don't like the 'driving without reasonable consideration' wording as it seems awfully ambiguous and I'd guess is only used when dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention won't stick for whatever reason.

It could be considered 'inconsiderate' to not move to lane 2 or brake when someone is coming up a slip-road at the same speed as you when you're on a motorway, but you may have a reason for not doing so even though you could've taken action. I haven't read the criteria for the offence but that could definitely be argued as an inconsiderate act but no one is ever (realistically) going to prosecuted for that action. Arguing or insinuating that someone is driving inconsiderately when they do something that is otherwise legal and they end up ahead of traffic that was previously in front of them is using a seemingly catch-all offence to police driving you don't like because it doesn't fit with your personal morals/opinions.

That said I could be wrong and it could genuinely come under the 'without reasonable consideration' offence, but I'm not a police officer, solicitor or judge and I'll keep doing the 360/540 (not having that discussion) at roundabouts when appropriate.

[vonhosen]

slipknotted said:

Sporky said:

Armchair Expert said:

Really!!!

The offence of driving without reasonable consideration under s.3 RTA 1988 is committed only when other persons are inconvenienced by the manner of the defendant's driving, see s.3ZA(4) RTA 1988.

So how does that apply when you do a full circut of a roundabout?

I am posting as a non-combatant.

You are potentially inconveniencing them because as you come around, they must not enter the roundabout until you've passed. Your loop will slow down the queue that you passed, more so than if you had gone straight over or stayed in the queue.

Also posting as a non-combatant

I don't like the 'driving without reasonable consideration' wording as it seems awfully ambiguous and I'd guess is only used when dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention won't stick for whatever reason.

Some argue that it is more restrictive than careless driving, in that it requires an extra element of somebody actually being inconvenienced (where as careless doesn't require anybody else to even present at the time).

Careless is a very low bar (as is inconsiderate). Careless merely falling below the standard expected of a competent & careful driver.
We all likely do it at some point or other, just some more often than others.

[Mark Asread]

Any action which could annoy other road users is not advanced driving.

That puts all all other arguments about whether it's good lane discipline, legal use of a roundabout, effective progress etc all down to second place the list of considerations. It's the same as deciding how early to merge at roadworks, and all other "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" scenarios. You might well be in the clear, but if even one person mumbles under their breath about what a dick you are, you've failed your drive (in my very humble opinion).

[slipknotted]

vonhosen said:

slipknotted said:

Sporky said:

Armchair Expert said:

Really!!!

The offence of driving without reasonable consideration under s.3 RTA 1988 is committed only when other persons are inconvenienced by the manner of the defendant's driving, see s.3ZA(4) RTA 1988.

So how does that apply when you do a full circut of a roundabout?

I am posting as a non-combatant.

You are potentially inconveniencing them because as you come around, they must not enter the roundabout until you've passed. Your loop will slow down the queue that you passed, more so than if you had gone straight over or stayed in the queue.

Also posting as a non-combatant

I don't like the 'driving without reasonable consideration' wording as it seems awfully ambiguous and I'd guess is only used when dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention won't stick for whatever reason.

Some argue that it is more restrictive than careless driving, in that it requires an extra element of somebody actually being inconvenienced (where as careless doesn't require anybody else to even present at the time).

Careless is a very low bar (as is inconsiderate). Careless merely falling below the standard expected of a competent & careful driver.
We all likely do it at some point or other, just some more often than others.

You make a really good point, it's implied there must be 'victim'. Seems it would be an appropriate offence for people who aggressively push into queues or other stupid decisions that motorists make which result in evasive action - especially where it wouldn't quite be serious enough for dangerous driving. If only the police had the manpower...

[5s Alive]

Mark Asread said:

Any action which could annoy other road users is not advanced driving.

That puts all all other arguments about whether it's good lane discipline, legal use of a roundabout, effective progress etc all down to second place the list of considerations. It's the same as deciding how early to merge at roadworks, and all other "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" scenarios. You might well be in the clear, but if even one person mumbles under their breath about what a dick you are, you've failed your drive (in my very humble opinion).

I suspect I often have drivers mumbling under their breath glued to my rear bumper as I slow down to posted 30 limits but I get your point.

[Sporky]

slipknotted said:

Also posting as a non-combatant

That was certainly my intent - trying not to post any judgement, just a potential explanation for how it might potentially maybe be seen that way. Add more caveats to taste!

I understand why people do it, and I understand why it annoys others, but I'm trying to resist having a strong fixed opinion.

[ingenieur]

I thought it was kosher to use both lanes of a roundabout for straight on when it was dual-carriageway in and out?

[ingenieur]

I should read more closely... in this situation it closes down to a single lane after the roundabout.

[slipknotted]

Sporky said:

slipknotted said:

Also posting as a non-combatant

That was certainly my intent - trying not to post any judgement, just a potential explanation for how it might potentially maybe be seen that way. Add more caveats to taste!

I understand why people do it, and I understand why it annoys others, but I'm trying to resist having a strong fixed opinion.

Ah, see I was trying to convey my opinion without being a dick or seeming dismissive of others haha.

[Sporky]

slipknotted said:

Sporky said:

slipknotted said:

Also posting as a non-combatant

That was certainly my intent - trying not to post any judgement, just a potential explanation for how it might potentially maybe be seen that way. Add more caveats to taste!

I understand why people do it, and I understand why it annoys others, but I'm trying to resist having a strong fixed opinion.

Ah, see I was trying to convey my opinion without being a dick or seeming dismissive of others haha.

I am an absolute idiot - sorry, I misread it as "almost posting as a non-combatant" and thought I might have not been quite neutral. I was aiming for the same thing as you.

Sorry!

[MutiMuti]

Monkeylegend said:

Did you not find this forum 216 months ago, or did you forget

That is some lurking.

Hmm - yes - seems I've been a member longer than anyone who'se posted here, but only 8 posts - way back in the mists of time I guess, none of which I can remember. I had to search hard for my username and password to login as I haven't actually visited the site for a long time. I was referring to the advanced driving forum because I haven't been an advanced driver all that time. :-)

[standards]

MutiMuti said:

Hmm - yes - seems I've been a member longer than anyone who'se posted here, but only 8 posts - way back in the mists of time I guess, none of which I can remember. I had to search hard for my username and password to login as I haven't actually visited the site for a long time. I was referring to the advanced driving forum because I haven't been an advanced driver all that time. :-)

I'd suggest that one aspires to be 'advanced' (however defined), continually; those that simply view themselves as such, might not be.
The fact that you're asking questions and evaluating the answers tends to put you in the former and better place to be IMHO.

[LightningBlue]

I sometimes do it, mainly on the way home from work when the roundabout gets clogged in the left lane - that's for a one lane ring road or going straight on where I need to go. If you sit in the left lane you might be there for 20 minutes on a bad day and I'd rather get home or to where I want to go. Circling it is at least more ethical than cutting in and I don't think you can get charged for that, but maybe I'm wrong.

[SpeckledJim]

LightningBlue said:

I sometimes do it, mainly on the way home from work when the roundabout gets clogged in the left lane - that's for a one lane ring road or going straight on where I need to go. If you sit in the left lane you might be there for 20 minutes on a bad day and I'd rather get home or to where I want to go. Circling it is at least more ethical than cutting in and I don't think you can get charged for that, but maybe I'm wrong.

Whatever amount of time you have saved is ‘taken’ from the other people in the queue.

You get home 20 minutes faster. They get home a total of 20 minutes later. If you can justify that to yourself then fair enough.

[Toltec]

SpeckledJim said:

Whatever amount of time you have saved is ‘taken’ from the other people in the queue.

You get home 20 minutes faster. They get home a total of 20 minutes later. If you can justify that to yourself then fair enough.

I do not think that is the case, if you are in the left lane everyone behind you has to wait for however long it takes you to pull on to the roundabout from the front position. This is not going to be any less than waiting for you as you loop the roundabout and may be more as if the lead car at the left lane is turning left they should be able to move as you are turning right.

The roundabout could be more efficient if the left lane is left turn only and the right straight on and right. This would allow two cars to enter and cross in the same time as just one if everyone is using just the one lane.

[trashbat]

Lots of reasonable things annoy people, like overtakes, so that's not a good litmus test.

You inconvenience somebody by gaining an advantage, perhaps, but you also benefit whoever would have been queuing behind you. Going around the roundabout may create an interruption in other traffic entering, thus allowing the left lane to proceed where it might not have, but now you've inconvenienced someone else. But then being on the road at all is an inconvenience. Really you need to spend some serious time with the traffic analysts before setting off anywhere.

I think it's a legit move but I wouldn't do it very often, not so much for fear of upsetting people but because there are other gambles involved: I might end up wasting my own time and ending up slower, I might make a mistake and end up in the wrong lane and off somewhere else, it might not be an actual roundabout somehow, etc etc