Ever noticed how you need to avoid an accident on Motorways
Discussion
I've recently tried radar cruise control for the first time and when you don't have to do the braking / resetting of the cruise it's interesting to observe how frequently (when it's a novelty anyway) the system has to react to plonkers pulling in front of your car or similarly unable to maintain a constant speed even if the road ahead is clear.
Louis Balfour said:
I am not sure whether it's my ageing memory, but I don't recall motorways being so dangerous before about 2000. On every motorway journey now I have to take evasive action several times.
Usually, it is drivers pulling out to overtake without assessing the speed of the lane they are entering. Or pulling out and filling the space between me and the car in front, thus making me brake to maintain a safe distance.
The DTI has some good numbers - https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/summary#annual-traf...Usually, it is drivers pulling out to overtake without assessing the speed of the lane they are entering. Or pulling out and filling the space between me and the car in front, thus making me brake to maintain a safe distance.
In that time (1999 to 2019, setting aside Covid) the amount of miles driven on motorways annually has gone up by around 30% from 54.6Bn to 70.5Bn so it doesn't surprise me that you're noticing more people pulling into your space and having to take evasive action more often. I just looked those numbers up on a hunch and was surprised there was quite a large jump.
To the OP, I take it as part and parcel of driving it's a bit of give and take. Especially as I'm mostly driving in London, it's inevitable that you have to squeeze in places with less space then is ideal but I also accept that people will have to do it to me and I'll slow down to let them do so. I found that accepting this made driving much more relaxing. It's still incredibly rare that I have to actually slam on the breaks or take major evasive action.
Edited by rpguk on Wednesday 30th November 12:53
Edited by rpguk on Wednesday 30th November 12:54
911hope said:
I don't think your view is actually different. Your planning for the expected HGV lane change is actually you avoiding the accident, caused by the HGV's move.
They shouldn't do it these dangerous lane changes, but the vast majority do it all the time. We know this and give them a wide berth.
Calling it dangerous is rather sensational - it is just a normal part of multi-lane driving and as mentioned several times we should have anticipated it and made space.They shouldn't do it these dangerous lane changes, but the vast majority do it all the time. We know this and give them a wide berth.
By the way, I generally de-activate the adaptive feature on cruise control. It waits too late before slowing when people are moving into my lane because it doesn't know about the need to slow until they are actually there. As I gain on a vehicle in front it slows me down from too far back, so that unless I want to match the speed of the vehicle in front and never reach it, I have to change to an overtaking lane too early, holding up traffic behind.
waremark said:
911hope said:
I don't think your view is actually different. Your planning for the expected HGV lane change is actually you avoiding the accident, caused by the HGV's move.
They shouldn't do it these dangerous lane changes, but the vast majority do it all the time. We know this and give them a wide berth.
Calling it dangerous is rather sensational - it is just a normal part of multi-lane driving and as mentioned several times we should have anticipated it and made space.They shouldn't do it these dangerous lane changes, but the vast majority do it all the time. We know this and give them a wide berth.
But the fact remains that you needed to take action to avoid the possible accident. In the real world many of the HVGs are happy to pull into the next lane, where traffic is 20mph faster. It is also the case that not all these moves can be predicted.
Consider the situation, where you are in lane 2 at 60mph and you see a likely HGV pullout at 50 into your path. Obviously you will be aware of the 80mph traffic in L3.
Do you..
A. Brake in L2 to avoid the potential accident.
B. Continue at 60 in L2 and hope the HGV does not pull out.
C. Accelerate very quickly to change into L3 at 80
D. Change into L3 at less than the L3 traffic and hope for the best.
Obviously some of these options are stupid and exactly the sort of behaviour people seem to forgive the HGVs for.
Bearing in mind that in the real world HGVs often pullout having tailgated someone for ages, so the observation of a gap closing just isn't a reality.
911hope said:
Bearing in mind that in the real world HGVs often pullout having tailgated someone for ages, so the observation of a gap closing just isn't a reality.
In my view it is very exceptional for an HGV to pull out with someone closing on them from behind without a signal in good time. But thinking a little further back in time, if approaching a situation where one HGV is tailing another and where a lane to my right is not available for any reason, I am constantly aware of the possibility the tailgater may pull out. I won't say I have never had to brake hard in that situation but it is exceptionally rare. If I have had to brake more firmly than I would like, it has generally been because the HGV indicated right before it had actually moved. I won't go alongside any vehicle after it has started to indicate to move into my lane - I think drivers sometimes start to indicate but have no intention of changing lanes until after you have got past, but I stay behind in that situation.Perhaps if 911 drivers were taught about truck class V mirrors they would apply better driving skills 
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
waremark said:
In my view it is very exceptional for an HGV to pull out with someone closing on them from behind without a signal in good time. But thinking a little further back in time, if approaching a situation where one HGV is tailing another and where a lane to my right is not available for any reason, I am constantly aware of the possibility the tailgater may pull out. I won't say I have never had to brake hard in that situation but it is exceptionally rare. If I have had to brake more firmly than I would like, it has generally been because the HGV indicated right before it had actually moved. I won't go alongside any vehicle after it has started to indicate to move into my lane - I think drivers sometimes start to indicate but have no intention of changing lanes until after you have got past, but I stay behind in that situation.
Did you know that indication is not meant to mean.. "I am coming get out of my way"It should already be safe to change, when indicating and require no avoiding action from others when you do.
Edited by 911hope on Thursday 1st December 07:55
7mike said:
Perhaps if 911 drivers were taught about truck class V mirrors they would apply better driving skills
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
Absolutely. Just another arrogant 911 driver driving within the speed limit, staying in lane and keeping a good distance from the car in front. Irresponsible maniacs the lot of them.https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
Not seeing a £100k Porsche there, though.
Louis Balfour said:
Absolutely. Just another arrogant 911 driver driving within the speed limit, staying in lane and keeping a good distance from the car in front. Irresponsible maniacs the lot of them.
Not seeing a £100k Porsche there, though.
If ever there was an example that illustrates that people need to treat HGVs with extreme caution, this is it.Not seeing a £100k Porsche there, though.
What planet was the Sun headline writer on, to say the Porsche hit the HGV.
....It was even contradicted by the first line of the "article".
HGV driver gets bored of tailgating the blue car, hasn't been looking in mirrors, has no idea what is in L2, takes a punt and causes the accident.
911hope said:
Louis Balfour said:
Absolutely. Just another arrogant 911 driver driving within the speed limit, staying in lane and keeping a good distance from the car in front. Irresponsible maniacs the lot of them.
Not seeing a £100k Porsche there, though.
If ever there was an example that illustrates that people need to treat HGVs with extreme caution, this is it.Not seeing a £100k Porsche there, though.
What planet was the Sun headline writer on, to say the Porsche hit the HGV.
....It was even contradicted by the first line of the "article".
HGV driver gets bored of tailgating the blue car, hasn't been looking in mirrors, has no idea what is in L2, takes a punt and causes the accident.
I will implement similar rules for buses on urban routes.
Louis Balfour said:
When I am king, lorries won’t be allowed to use motorways or dual carriageways during daylight hours. Then they can do all the elephant racing and crashing into one another they want, during the hours of darkness.
I will implement similar rules for buses on urban routes.
Elephant racing is stupid behaviour. I regularly see 3 lanes of the M6 blocked by these idiots.I will implement similar rules for buses on urban routes.
Given the tiny difference in limited speed (and not often consistent up/down hill).
And to what end?
0.5mph difference over 300 mile journey is about 2.5 minutes @60mph. It is just irrational behaviour.
Ever seen the drivers jogging across the service station car park to save time?
I don’t think I am an advanced driver… but despite pretty high mileage at (at times) pretty high speeds years/decades go by without what I consider to be a close one/near miss.
Is it just that what I consider a near miss is different to others?
I drove 5k miles in the past 2 weeks, quite a lot of it pretty quickly. No dramas whatsoever. It was quite a pleasant experience.
Is it just that what I consider a near miss is different to others?
I drove 5k miles in the past 2 weeks, quite a lot of it pretty quickly. No dramas whatsoever. It was quite a pleasant experience.
Kawasicki said:
I don’t think I am an advanced driver… but despite pretty high mileage at (at times) pretty high speeds years/decades go by without what I consider to be a close one/near miss.
Is it just that what I consider a near miss is different to others?
I drove 5k miles in the past 2 weeks, quite a lot of it pretty quickly. No dramas whatsoever. It was quite a pleasant experience.
Are you a lorry driver?Is it just that what I consider a near miss is different to others?
I drove 5k miles in the past 2 weeks, quite a lot of it pretty quickly. No dramas whatsoever. It was quite a pleasant experience.
hairy v said:
Kawasicki said:
I don’t think I am an advanced driver… but despite pretty high mileage at (at times) pretty high speeds years/decades go by without what I consider to be a close one/near miss.
Is it just that what I consider a near miss is different to others?
I drove 5k miles in the past 2 weeks, quite a lot of it pretty quickly. No dramas whatsoever. It was quite a pleasant experience.
Are you a lorry driver?Is it just that what I consider a near miss is different to others?
I drove 5k miles in the past 2 weeks, quite a lot of it pretty quickly. No dramas whatsoever. It was quite a pleasant experience.
Louis Balfour said:
7mike said:
Perhaps if 911 drivers were taught about truck class V mirrors they would apply better driving skills
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
Absolutely. Just another arrogant 911 driver driving within the speed limit, staying in lane and keeping a good distance from the car in front. Irresponsible maniacs the lot of them.https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
Not seeing a £100k Porsche there, though.
It's the ones that vary speed from 55-75mph, for no reason, that cause the biggest issues. They'll be in L3 going 64mph overtaking someone doing 63mph in L2, then when they pull in L2 they speed up to 75mph, so you pull into L2/L1, only to then start catching them as they slow to 67mph, so you go to overtake and as you get level they speed up again. Cars around them are forever braking or pulling out around them, they'll also never ever use L1.
Same on A and B roads as well though, they'll vary from 35mph-45mph, then carry on at 40mph when they hit a 30mph limit. Some people just have no awareness of what's going on.
Same on A and B roads as well though, they'll vary from 35mph-45mph, then carry on at 40mph when they hit a 30mph limit. Some people just have no awareness of what's going on.
zedx19 said:
It's the ones that vary speed from 55-75mph, for no reason, that cause the biggest issues. They'll be in L3 going 64mph overtaking someone doing 63mph in L2, then when they pull in L2 they speed up to 75mph, so you pull into L2/L1, only to then start catching them as they slow to 67mph, so you go to overtake and as you get level they speed up again. Cars around them are forever braking or pulling out around them, they'll also never ever use L1.
Same on A and B roads as well though, they'll vary from 35mph-45mph, then carry on at 40mph when they hit a 30mph limit. Some people just have no awareness of what's going on.
That said I do often speed up when moving out a lane, just to avoid a lingering overtake.Same on A and B roads as well though, they'll vary from 35mph-45mph, then carry on at 40mph when they hit a 30mph limit. Some people just have no awareness of what's going on.
7mike said:
Louis Balfour said:
7mike said:
Perhaps if 911 drivers were taught about truck class V mirrors they would apply better driving skills
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
Absolutely. Just another arrogant 911 driver driving within the speed limit, staying in lane and keeping a good distance from the car in front. Irresponsible maniacs the lot of them.https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20423322/porsche-h...
Not seeing a £100k Porsche there, though.
The HVG having a blind spot does not give the driver the right to move into it.
Obviously the video didn't show what came before the HGV crashed into the 911. Either the 911 overtook slowly in L2, or the HGV caught up in L1.
Either way there was ample opportunity for the HGV driver to see the 911 at some time. It is the HGV driver's responsibility to KNOW there is nothing to hit, before moving.
This collision was 100% the fault of the HGV.
The 911 could have seen the danger and escaped. That would have been an example of an action to prevent an accident initiated by someone else.
... The point made in the OP.
911hope said:
That's the mirror that should allow the HGV driver to look in his blind spot, which he obviously didn't.
The HVG having a blind spot does not give the driver the right to move into it.
Obviously the video didn't show what came before the HGV crashed into the 911. Either the 911 overtook slowly in L2, or the HGV caught up in L1.
Either way there was ample opportunity for the HGV driver to see the 911 at some time. It is the HGV driver's responsibility to KNOW there is nothing to hit, before moving.
This collision was 100% the fault of the HGV.
The 911 could have seen the danger and escaped. That would have been an example of an action to prevent an accident initiated by someone else.
... The point made in the OP.
Apologies first of all, I did of course mean class VI mirror, the class V is the one above the windscreen. As you obviously have experience of driving large goods vehicles you have an idea what the view from that mirror looks like. For everyone else, here it is(on a RHD truck). Doesn't quite extend to the next lane The HVG having a blind spot does not give the driver the right to move into it.
Obviously the video didn't show what came before the HGV crashed into the 911. Either the 911 overtook slowly in L2, or the HGV caught up in L1.
Either way there was ample opportunity for the HGV driver to see the 911 at some time. It is the HGV driver's responsibility to KNOW there is nothing to hit, before moving.
This collision was 100% the fault of the HGV.
The 911 could have seen the danger and escaped. That would have been an example of an action to prevent an accident initiated by someone else.
... The point made in the OP.
This particular truck also has a fresnel lens on the passenger window to bend the view downward, perhaps they should be mandatory, but to the best of my knowledge unfortunately, they're not. Incidentally, I agree 100% it was the lorry driver's fault. The only difference is, I (and the people I train) will recognise the danger in good time and apply a proactive rather than reactive means of avoiding it.
7mike said:
911hope said:
That's the mirror that should allow the HGV driver to look in his blind spot, which he obviously didn't.
The HVG having a blind spot does not give the driver the right to move into it.
Obviously the video didn't show what came before the HGV crashed into the 911. Either the 911 overtook slowly in L2, or the HGV caught up in L1.
Either way there was ample opportunity for the HGV driver to see the 911 at some time. It is the HGV driver's responsibility to KNOW there is nothing to hit, before moving.
This collision was 100% the fault of the HGV.
The 911 could have seen the danger and escaped. That would have been an example of an action to prevent an accident initiated by someone else.
... The point made in the OP.
Apologies first of all, I did of course mean class VI mirror, the class V is the one above the windscreen. As you obviously have experience of driving large goods vehicles you have an idea what the view from that mirror looks like. For everyone else, here it is(on a RHD truck). Doesn't quite extend to the next lane The HVG having a blind spot does not give the driver the right to move into it.
Obviously the video didn't show what came before the HGV crashed into the 911. Either the 911 overtook slowly in L2, or the HGV caught up in L1.
Either way there was ample opportunity for the HGV driver to see the 911 at some time. It is the HGV driver's responsibility to KNOW there is nothing to hit, before moving.
This collision was 100% the fault of the HGV.
The 911 could have seen the danger and escaped. That would have been an example of an action to prevent an accident initiated by someone else.
... The point made in the OP.
This particular truck also has a fresnel lens on the passenger window to bend the view downward, perhaps they should be mandatory, but to the best of my knowledge unfortunately, they're not. Incidentally, I agree 100% it was the lorry driver's fault. The only difference is, I (and the people I train) will recognise the danger in good time and apply a proactive rather than reactive means of avoiding it.Or maybe the lorry driver who changed lanes and should have been aware of the above limitations was at fault.
Runaround……. Now!
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