Traffic lights, fast roads and the point of no return!

[waremark]

I think the opposite direction lights generally change from red to red and amber when my lights change from amber to red. If so, there may be a grace period from prosecution but that doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue.

[Rotary Potato]

waremark said:

I think the opposite direction lights generally change from red to red and amber when my lights change from amber to red. If so, there may be a grace period from prosecution but that doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue.

To be fair, a green light doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue! But I understand the sentiment.

I recently had the pleasure of driving into Birmingham for the first time in about 10 years, and it seems to have developed its own rules around traffic lights.

Green = go
Amber = go
Red = go for the next 3 or 4 cars, then someone probably needs to stop.

It was bit of an eye opener!

[Vipers]

waremark said:

I think the opposite direction lights generally change from red to red and amber when my lights change from amber to red. If so, there may be a grace period from prosecution but that doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue.

Not sure if same all over, but up in Aberdeen, lights on a junction I use quite a lot stay at red unti the other lights crossing the junction are also red, then mine start changing to red and amber.

I seem to think this is country wide, could be wrong of course, makes sense really if they did.

[Sheepshanks]

waremark said:

I think the opposite direction lights generally change from red to red and amber when my lights change from amber to red. If so, there may be a grace period from prosecution but that doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue.

Traffic signal regulations are pretty complicated and I think a lot depends on the system used and the local intrepretation.

I *think*, from green, amber always has to show for 3 seconds and then red and amber have to show for 2 seconds. So you get a 5 second "intergreen" period.

There doesn't seem to be any requirement for a specific period when all the lights are on red, and certainly in Chester City Centre, so I guess the same authority as the junction in the OP, the lights seem to change from one direction to another almost simultaneously.

[FiF]

Rotary Potato said:

waremark said:

I think the opposite direction lights generally change from red to red and amber when my lights change from amber to red. If so, there may be a grace period from prosecution but that doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue.

To be fair, a green light doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue! But I understand the sentiment.

I recently had the pleasure of driving into Birmingham for the first time in about 10 years, and it seems to have developed its own rules around traffic lights.

Green = go
Amber = go
Red = go for the next 3 or 4 cars, then someone probably needs to stop.

It was bit of an eye opener!

I've been saying similar about Birmingham for years now. The place is an utter disgrace.

To that behaviour on red lights I've even started to see the tactics previously only employed by cyclists. Essentially Red = ok mount kerb, go down pavement, go round corner, rejoin road. What do you mean? Red lights don't apply when you're on the pavement surely.

Though to be fair it is amusing when they encounter some street furniture that makes a gap cannot pass through. However then just push back into the waiting queue. So not that amusing really.

[Vipers]

waremark said:

I think the opposite direction lights generally change from red to red and amber when my lights change from amber to red. If so, there may be a grace period from prosecution but that doesn't necessarily make it safe to continue.

Thinking about this when I was at a red light today, watching the lights for the traffic crossing in front, their lights changed to red, about two seconds after it was at red, mine started changing from red, whether this is the same all over who knows, but as I keep telling my misses when she nips across the crossing when she has a green, it doesn’t mean go, it means go if it’s safe to do so.

[NervousEnergy]

In Greece (on NR 9 at least) on fast sections there are lights a few hundred m before traffic lights that flash amber in advance of a change - I always thought that was a good idea.

[PhilAsia]

fidzer said:

PhilAsia said:

1993ish, North Circular Rd, Hanger Gyratory System. Travelling southbound from Ace Cafe, Stonebridge, towards Ealing.



Metro Panda car following too closely

Prepped student re car to close, ATL light change possibility, ability to stop safely before stop line

Informed too close to stop and to proceed, lights changed, student panicked and went for brakes cos of police, I put foot under brake, instructed for gas, no response, had to lean over and push gas.

Got through lights fine, but met with vehicles coming from North Circular coming from Ealing on green. Lots leaning on horn etc.

Exited A40 Uxbridge and took first left and parked to debrief.

Metro panda pulled up and the questions started:

Why through red? Explained he was too close and to stop at the line could have caused a collision. I would have had to stop after the line.

Did I see that my actions had stopped the free movement on green? Yes, page 54 (old HC) states "proceed if safe to do so" (sorry, I used to know it verbatim but the wording has now changed). We were clearing the junction so it was not safe for the vehicles to move as it was not clear.

Went through it all a few times until he said "OK, I will let you off this time", at which point I started to raise my voice, asked for his number, station etc. A call later, the desk sergeant was crying and told me he would have a whip round for a Highway Code and bid me good day.

My student was absolutely gobsmacked at the dismantling of what he thought was a sure ticket. I resumed the debrief, which he was familiar with anyway, as the sun roof was open and continued our lesson (with a little extra time added on for (no) penalties.

Edited by PhilAsia on Friday 4th November 16:37

And then everyone in the station started clapping?

Well, the desk sergeant thought it was funny and said "we'll buy him a HC..." as I said.

Not sure the next day's banner with "you're the greatest, Phil" towed behind the Cesna was for me though.

[PhilAsia]

What The Deuces said:

PhilAsia said:

Thinking distance is still the same. Average reaction time is 0.7secs and 0.3/0.4 for left foot braking.

What The Deuces said:

Left foot braking is a technique used to balance a cars weight transfer using the throttle and the brake at the same time....why on earth would you be doing that approaching traffic lights?

I wouldn't.

What The Deuces said:

If you just mean braking with your left foot, unless you are doing this all day every day and are very experienced then using your right foot will give better performance, modulating the brake with your left foot is not a skill most people have.

I use LFBing in manual and auto as it reduces the reaction time. And, yes, it is not a skill that most people have.

[PhilAsia]

waremark said:

What The Deuces said:

Left foot braking is a technique used to balance a cars weight transfer using the throttle and the brake at the same time....why on earth would you be doing that approaching traffic lights?

If you just mean braking with your left foot, unless you are doing this all day every day and are very experienced then using your right foot will give better performance, modulating the brake with your left foot is not a skill most people have.

There could be a whole different discussion about left foot braking. In a world where cars with a clutch pedal are a dying breed, and in emergency braking with the left foot can save 0.5 seconds thinking time, shouldn't left foot braking become the norm?

Incidentally, the late great Pentti Airikkala (Finnish rally driver) ran a left foot braking course. He proposed several benefits of LFB, though not the one mentioned above. One was saving thinking time, and he argued that even in a manual car it is a good idea to cover the brake pedal with the left foot on the grounds that in emergency it is better to stop in time and stall the engine than to keep the engine running and have an accident.

I routinely left foot brake in auto cars, but not in manual cars. I agree that developing the skill of accurate and smooth braking with your left foot if you have not been used to doing it requires considerable practise.

It is a technique that invariably divides a room into hoppers and walkers.

Joking aside, it is a very serious topic that has pros and cons for both. If it is a highly accomplished technique it can set drivers apart - this is, of course, with right foot braking at this level.......the same is true of left foot raking at the same level.

[PhilAsia]

What The Deuces said:

waremark said:

There could be a whole different discussion about left foot braking. In a world where cars with a clutch pedal are a dying breed, and in emergency braking with the left foot can save 0.5 seconds thinking time, shouldn't left foot braking become the norm?

Incidentally, the late great Pentti Airikkala (Finnish rally driver) ran a left foot braking course. He proposed several benefits of LFB, though not the one mentioned above. One was saving thinking time, and he argued that even in a manual car it is a good idea to cover the brake pedal with the left foot on the grounds that in emergency it is better to stop in time and stall the engine than to keep the engine running and have an accident.

I routinely left foot brake in auto cars, but not in manual cars. I agree that developing the skill of accurate and smooth braking with your left foot if you have not been used to doing it requires considerable practise.

And therein lies the issue IMO. Ive been lfb for 20 years on the roads and its still not second nature in an emergency

However, it is for me. Therein lies no issue. I must state that, in the last 20 plus years in Asia, I have only activated the ABS once - for around 2 seconds.

[PhilAsia]

waremark said:

What The Deuces said:

And therein lies the issue IMO. Ive been lfb for 20 years on the roads and its still not second nature in an emergency

I still remember the first time I had to brake in a not quite emergency but suddenly and unexpectedly and used my left foot - I immediately thought 'now I've cracked it'. Less than 20 years of practise, but quite a bit.

This.

In a moment of inattention to how others may behave, I had not expected a fruit loop to exit a side road, fly across a dual carriageway in front of ABS activating cars and then onto my carriageway. I had not expected the car to emerge as the vehicles on the opposite carriageway were so close but, on catching the movement, I hit the brakes and the ABS activated, science enabling my vehicle to slow to a point where I could realise it was ok to ease off.

[What The Deuces]

Clearly driving gods walk amongst us but for the man on the street who has never practised extensively on their own private road, braking with the left foot on UK public roads is akin to negligence unless that's how you learned to drive from the start.

[PhilAsia]

Anawilliam850 said:

When approaching traffic lights on fast roads, it is important to maintain a safe following distance from the vehicle in front of you. This will allow you to stop safely if the traffic lights change unexpectedly.

One way to gauge your stopping distance is to use landmarks such as lamp posts, as you mentioned. Another method is to use the "two-second rule," which states that you should aim to be at least two seconds behind the vehicle in front of you. This can be determined by picking a stationary object ahead, such as a sign or tree, and counting the seconds it takes for you to reach that object after the vehicle in front of you has passed it.

It's important to be aware of the traffic lights cameras and avoid getting caught out by breaking the rules and causing a danger.

It's also important to look out for any advanced traffic signals that are placed before the traffic lights, as these will give you an indication of the status of the lights ahead of you, and it could help you to adjust your speed accordingly.

Lastly, always obey traffic signals and be prepared to stop if the lights change unexpectedly, as this will prevent accidents and help keep you and other road users safe.

There are many constantly changing variables. As ingenieur(spl?) mentioned above, how closely you are being followed is also vital to decision making.

One benefit of LFBing is that the brake can be covered without reducing speed. The constant speed maintains the distance to the following vehicle, a distance that would decrease if the right foot covers the brake.

Another benefit is the brake lights go on earlier with LFBing, so the following vehicle has earlier warning

Furthermore, the brakes can be used more gently as they are activated earlier.

One downside to LFBing is that those following will invariably be later on the brakes, so your LFBing choice has to be constantly monitored very closely in order to be of benefit to all.

[PhilAsia]

What The Deuces said:

Clearly driving gods walk amongst us but for the man on the street who has never practised extensively on their own private road, braking with the left foot on UK public roads is akin to negligence unless that's how you learned to drive from the start.

Hop along...

Just as with any skill, it takes practice.

If you wish to learn then that is fine. You may not have noticed but here are many learner drivers on the road. The students should be on a road that suits their standard and then progressing to more difficult scenarios as they improve.

If you wish to learn then start on a clear road and use your dominant (hoppy) right foot and follow the movement with your left. If you find you are more comfortable hopping than walking the pedals then carry on as you were. I you find it is beneficial, welcome to the party.

Righteously Yours,

God.

(do what YOU want......)

[nismo48]

What The Deuces said:

Clearly driving gods walk amongst us but for the man on the street who has never practised extensively on their own private road, braking with the left foot on UK public roads is akin to negligence unless that's how you learned to drive from the start.

Fair comment

[Glosphil]

Currently in Stroud (Ebley bypass) there is a 30mph limit single carriageway that changes to a 40 limit dual carriageway 105 yards before a double set of traffic lights.

This has come about due to a previous. 50 limit being dropped to 30 due to a new water main being constructed parallel to the road. The reason given being the danger of the trucks leaving the site.

Work goes on for 8 hours a day on week days only. The limit is 24/7. Surely a set of traffic lights going to red only when trucks are leaving the site would have been less disruptive?

[PhilAsia]

nismo48 said:

What The Deuces said:

Clearly driving gods walk amongst us but for the man on the street who has never practised extensively on their own private road, braking with the left foot on UK public roads is akin to negligence unless that's how you learned to drive from the start.

Fair comment

For anyone without the ability to think things through.

Choose the road conditions to practice LFB on in order to adjust the technique until it is a part of your driving toolbox, just as you did when first learning to drive, or developing techniques such as H&T. Where it is not suitable revert to your preferred right foot.

Use everything/anything to possibly improve your driving - including your brain/ability to reason - LFB may not benefit you, but could someone else.