IAM - keeping your standards up
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:For me, the main things I learned were observation and anticipation of hazards. I think I am now a safer driver but how can I prove that?
I'm curious.
Does the IAM certificate/passing actually make a good driver safer?
What is the "advanced" area of motoring, advanced safety, advanced ability in tricky situations?
Is there a link to any specific guidelines, as I had a trawl but couldn't really find much specific ala the Highway code type thing.
Just can't get my head around the benefits that I may see for example.
Dave
For the sake of £85, why not join, do some observed drives and find out.
Have any professional or trained drivers ever told you that you're a 'good driver'?
Had no one tell me about driving really, most people accept that I am a safe driver though.
Main thing I worry about when being "observed" is that they will assess me on things that have bearing on ultimate road posture, but make little to no difference in a 170bhp car.
Ie, braking and changing down (while blipping throttle) for one example.
I agree there is a "best practice" to alot of things, but will it actually change much, except make me more anal about my driving to no apparent benefit except a percepted sense of "betterness"?
Dave
Main thing I worry about when being "observed" is that they will assess me on things that have bearing on ultimate road posture, but make little to no difference in a 170bhp car.
Ie, braking and changing down (while blipping throttle) for one example.
I agree there is a "best practice" to alot of things, but will it actually change much, except make me more anal about my driving to no apparent benefit except a percepted sense of "betterness"?
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
I'm curious.
Does the IAM certificate/passing actually make a good driver safer?
What is the "advanced" area of motoring, advanced safety, advanced ability in tricky situations?
Is there a link to any specific guidelines, as I had a trawl but couldn't really find much specific ala the Highway code type thing.
Just can't get my head around the benefits that I may see for example.
Dave
As Leo says, the main advantage is keeping out of trouble, rather than how to get out of trouble once you're in it. This comes through improved observation, improved anticipation, improved driving plans, etc.
Also, though, you may find it helps you maintain progress through reading "limit points" on bends, cornering positions etc.
Yes, there are many points which might be seen as pedantic, but they are like that for a reason - holding the gear lever properly DOES improve the feel for smooth gearchanges, rather than stirring the lever about with a couple of fingers. Not critical, but these tiny things do add up, and if it takes the same effort to do it wrong as to do it right, why not do it right?
Mr Whippy said:
Had no one tell me about driving really, most people accept that I am a safe driver though.
Main thing I worry about when being "observed" is that they will assess me on things that have bearing on ultimate road posture, but make little to no difference in a 170bhp car.
Ie, braking and changing down (while blipping throttle) for one example.
I agree there is a "best practice" to alot of things, but will it actually change much, except make me more anal about my driving to no apparent benefit except a percepted sense of "betterness"?
Dave
Forgive me if I have interpreted your post incorrectly, but in my experience I thought I was a good driver, had read roadcraft and tried to implement it.
It was only once I had a serving Police officer (from Ridedrive) sit next to for four hours I realised how hard advanced driving can be, and much i could still learn.
My overtaking was too tight and not well planned enough (I thought it was fine)
I was using the gears too quickly and the brakes too hard.
I was dabbing the brake in reponse to possible hazards instead of backing off.
I was not as smooth as I could be.
I was not observing far enough up the road or using other information that was available (eg, looking for the pattern of telegraph poles to indicate the direction of the road ahead)
I was stopping too close to the car in front and potentially allowing myself to be blocked in by a car behind or compromised by the car in front breaking down.
I was sitting too far away from the wheel. Bend arms required
All that said, I was told that I was a very confident and well co ordinated driver, that needed to improve in the above areas.
I would recommend RideDrive to anyone that was interested in improving their driving style.
Best of all it was FUN too and De restricted meant it!
Cheers,
Steve
Quite a few of those are just perceptual though, not smooth enough, braking too hard, gears too fast?
I understand the ideals of driving, but isn't there also just striving to conform with what other people suggest is best, when really there is no "best" method, but a range of personal preferences which vary "best" widely.
To fit in with a pre accepted "norm" is not always best, as if that method is not the "best" then we all have a similar flaw if that follows.
No offence to anyone, I'm really interested in this myself, but I haven't heard anyone say that they are amazed how much more safely they can drive faster, or how amazed they are how badly they were driving before.
I'd like to hear people's stories if they have them, not just "i got better" because I can't visualise or have a quantitive idea of that...
Intriqued
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 1st September 15:58
I understand the ideals of driving, but isn't there also just striving to conform with what other people suggest is best, when really there is no "best" method, but a range of personal preferences which vary "best" widely.
To fit in with a pre accepted "norm" is not always best, as if that method is not the "best" then we all have a similar flaw if that follows.
No offence to anyone, I'm really interested in this myself, but I haven't heard anyone say that they are amazed how much more safely they can drive faster, or how amazed they are how badly they were driving before.
I'd like to hear people's stories if they have them, not just "i got better" because I can't visualise or have a quantitive idea of that...
Intriqued
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 1st September 15:58
Mr Whippy said:
I'd like to hear people's stories if they have them, not just "i got better" because I can't visualise or have a quantitive idea of that...
I'll tell you what "did it" for me and made me want to do an IAM course.
I went out for a drive with my neighbour - an IAM Senior Observer...and he did a commentary drive.
The amount of information he was extracting from his view up the road, processing and acting on blew me away. AND he was able to TELL me all of this whilst driving - as smoothly as you could ever wish to.
I realised I was looking at the road and "filtering" it with a set of prejudices or assumptions I had. I wasn't really looking at the road and being coldly analytical about it.
I really wanted to be able to do it.
So what you need to do to convince yourself its worthwhile is get on what's called a "demo" drive. Read "Roadcraft" first so that you know what the guy is doing and then see it first hand.
You may not be "blown away" but you should see that these guys are extracting and processing more information that you thought possible from the road - and that this allows them to be smoother, faster and safer.
Even better if you can get a demo from a Class 1.
I'm guessing it helps to go on an unknown road, since it's very easy to just remember hazards and perhaps drive "better" than you would on an unknown stretch of road.
I'm interested in better practices really, like extra observations you can make at certain points that aid progress and safety.
I understand observing the road must vary a great deal between drivers, and to call out your observations is a good way to have someone gauge your priorities and how you react to them.
Time to go find "road craft" on Amazon and have a read... £9.79, ah well, worth it.
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 1st September 16:30
I'm interested in better practices really, like extra observations you can make at certain points that aid progress and safety.
I understand observing the road must vary a great deal between drivers, and to call out your observations is a good way to have someone gauge your priorities and how you react to them.
Time to go find "road craft" on Amazon and have a read... £9.79, ah well, worth it.
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 1st September 16:30
What started me was that in our area at the time, the Police were doing a 6-week "better driving" night class - I went along with a "ach I know it all but I'll see what he says" attitude - I was 26 then. I only went because the Mrs wanted to do a different course and I thought it would pass the time while I waited between giving her a lift there and a lift back.
I was interested but not impressed, until this traffpol sergeant who was running the course, took us for demo drives. Like Don, when I heard his commentary I was just totally gobsmacked by the amount of information he was collecting and processing, and I decided, about 10 minutes into the drive, that I wanted to be able to drive like that.
Finished that course, then IAM course and test, Rospa course and test, and I realised that I was still not as good as that guy that day... but still a lot, a helluva lot, better than I had been when I started.
I was interested but not impressed, until this traffpol sergeant who was running the course, took us for demo drives. Like Don, when I heard his commentary I was just totally gobsmacked by the amount of information he was collecting and processing, and I decided, about 10 minutes into the drive, that I wanted to be able to drive like that.
Finished that course, then IAM course and test, Rospa course and test, and I realised that I was still not as good as that guy that day... but still a lot, a helluva lot, better than I had been when I started.
tobeee said:
Sorry for the hijack, but I'm doing RoSPA at the moment, and one thing I'm battling with is turning into a side road without steering, changing gear and braking all at the same time. If I slow down enough beforehand to do the manoeuvre correctly, I feel I'm being a menace (and possibly a danger) to those behind me. Any helpful advice?
Tobeee ...... the problem you have is very common - practice and more practice do sort it but try braking in 2 stages, the first to begin applying braking pressure smoothly but the second to really, really firm up the braking - firmer than you would normally ever consider for a normal junction which brings your speed down quicker.... this will, once you are used to doing it enable you to get closer to the junction before starting braking / the separate processes you complete when you want to turn and you will not end up inconveniencing anyone behind or feeling you are starting the process miles from the junction or where you normally would.
Don't forget that if someone is close or the road is fast that brake gear overlap is probably more suitable.
I used to get told something which does actually make sense ...... safety gets compromised for nothing, but anything can be compromised for safety.
Hope this makes sense - it is in some ways easier to demonstrate than describe!
JonRB said:
With respect, although I had a bit of trouble with not braking and changing gear at the same time, even I never attempted to steer round a bend at the same time. You should always do your braking and gear changing in a straight line, even if (like me) your driving style is still to change gear under braking.
Why shouldn't you change gear under braking?
mindgam3 said:
With respect, although I had a bit of trouble with not braking and changing gear at the same time, even I never attempted to steer round a bend at the same time. You should always do your braking and gear changing in a straight line, even if (like me) your driving style is still to change gear under braking.
Why shouldn't you change gear under braking?
That's worth a thread by itself. I'll dig up one of my old explanations and cut and paste it into an "FAQ".
Actually Don ..... that's given me an idea ....
I'll write up an FAQ on the relevant and various group/companies - IAM, RoSPA, etc, etc ... differences, costs, etc, etc ..... as it help make clear what they all are.
Once complete (will take a few days to do) I'll post it here for input/discussion, so we end up with a clear simple document explaining everything about everyone.
K
I'll write up an FAQ on the relevant and various group/companies - IAM, RoSPA, etc, etc ... differences, costs, etc, etc ..... as it help make clear what they all are.
Once complete (will take a few days to do) I'll post it here for input/discussion, so we end up with a clear simple document explaining everything about everyone.
K
mindgam3 said:
Why shouldn't you change gear under braking?
Short, short answer is that it can destabilise the car.
For example, on a powerful yet light RWD car like a Caterham or a Chimaera you run a very real risk of locking the rear wheels when you let the clutch up again unless you are adept at heel-and-toe.
However, for normal road driving I find it suits my driving style to change gear under braking which is why I continue to do it.
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 2nd September 11:44
To go right back to your original post. I share a number of your issues with IAM. I have been a member for 15 years with no specific benefit as such - I don't do anything with the local group and get no discount on insurance.
You have to take with you what you consider the important aspects of IAM training and methods. For me it has to be safety not necessarily adherence to every guideline or ultimate smoothness, although that can be satisfying when conditions allow.
Choose quiet days to pratice your art - they are rare but so nice when they happen - the odd car to overtake but not hoards of numpties to spoil your rythm.
I try always to keep observation up and a safety zone around me, but often let other aspects drop as its just too frustrating in this day and age. You'd go spare otherwise.
You have to take with you what you consider the important aspects of IAM training and methods. For me it has to be safety not necessarily adherence to every guideline or ultimate smoothness, although that can be satisfying when conditions allow.
Choose quiet days to pratice your art - they are rare but so nice when they happen - the odd car to overtake but not hoards of numpties to spoil your rythm.
I try always to keep observation up and a safety zone around me, but often let other aspects drop as its just too frustrating in this day and age. You'd go spare otherwise.
To return to NCoT's original question of how to maintain standards.
Firstly our RoADA/RoSPA group has a championship. One Sunday every month there are observed drives coupled with a Highway Code/Roadcraft quiz. This is marked against the system, you can also lose points for transgressions, and for severe ones get a fail. At the end of the year there is a final between the top three in each class, i.e. members, those who hold a current Rospa cert, and associates, those working towards their test.
The RoADA/RoSPA re-test every three years works some way towards preventing standards slipping, providing you intend to take the re-test.
I will second the comment from whomever that making a commentary helps. Don has mentioned before about technique if coming off such as a track day or competitive event. Very easy to go on the road still in track mode. Go into commentary mode and it all gets in line vv quickly.
Finally recommend observing. To teach is to learn twice.
By that last comment what I mean is that you can have the privilege of teaching the biggest muppet but, sure as eggs are eggs, there will be something come out of it that YOU benefit from. Even if it is only an insight into muppetry.
Why did I do it? Similar reason to Don. Yonks back, as a young whippersnapper <17 and thus still not able to drive but already a confirmed petrolhead, noticed that the old fella's driving was of one standard, but eldest bro, already a class 1 of the old school and destined for white top traffic plod, was quicker, smoother and on a different plane together. Demo drive later and, as they say, the rest is history.
FiF
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 16th September 10:53
Firstly our RoADA/RoSPA group has a championship. One Sunday every month there are observed drives coupled with a Highway Code/Roadcraft quiz. This is marked against the system, you can also lose points for transgressions, and for severe ones get a fail. At the end of the year there is a final between the top three in each class, i.e. members, those who hold a current Rospa cert, and associates, those working towards their test.
The RoADA/RoSPA re-test every three years works some way towards preventing standards slipping, providing you intend to take the re-test.
I will second the comment from whomever that making a commentary helps. Don has mentioned before about technique if coming off such as a track day or competitive event. Very easy to go on the road still in track mode. Go into commentary mode and it all gets in line vv quickly.
Finally recommend observing. To teach is to learn twice.
By that last comment what I mean is that you can have the privilege of teaching the biggest muppet but, sure as eggs are eggs, there will be something come out of it that YOU benefit from. Even if it is only an insight into muppetry.
Why did I do it? Similar reason to Don. Yonks back, as a young whippersnapper <17 and thus still not able to drive but already a confirmed petrolhead, noticed that the old fella's driving was of one standard, but eldest bro, already a class 1 of the old school and destined for white top traffic plod, was quicker, smoother and on a different plane together. Demo drive later and, as they say, the rest is history.
FiF
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 16th September 10:53
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff