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Discussion
DeathRace2005 said:
Oh Good Grief, there are some sad threads on here aren't there. Congratulations to all you who have managed to find the 'Valhalla of boredom'.
Started riding 33 years ago, before I got a license. Passed my bike test one week after my 17 th birthday. Wrote my first bike off at 17 and a half. Passed by car license (second time of asking) at 18. Wrote my first car off at 19. Completed Skid courses at Brands Hatch and Thruxton. Raced Formula Ford and Saloon cars all over the UK (Never won or crashed). Completed the Yamaha open course at Donnington and the 3-day Mororcyclists course at the Nurburgring. I've been banned for Dangerous Driving, Driving without due care and attention, Wreckless Driving and Speeding. Also managed to break the record (as far as I am aware) of having 14 points on my license without losing it.
Decided that UK motoring was not for me and moved to the continent where, rather than reprove spirited driving, they celebrate it !
Just bought my first TVR last week and look forward to meeting you all 'on the other side' which is where we'll all be going - eventually.
Sounds like we're a lot safer with you over there rather than over here.
JonRB said:
"The fool thinks he knows everything, whilst the wise man knows that he always has much to learn".
Let me put it this way. I am a professional C++ developer with over 10 years experience and am considered by many to be an expert in my field. Does that mean I know everything? Christ, no! There are always going to be people who know more than me unless I become the world's leading authority on the subject.
So tell me bmw114, are you the world's leading authority on driving, or do you perhaps acknowledge that others might possibly know more than you?
Please read my second entry and you will see that i do not claim to be the best, just quietly happy with standard of driving
Personally I'm not particularly interested in debating who knows more about driving or who is the 'better' driver.
A more constructive way of looking at it is whether you still have anything to learn. I like to think that I'm a better driver this year than I was last year, it would be very depressing to think that I had nothing more to learn and my driving was never going to improve beyond this point. I think that talking to other people who take an active interest in driving skills is one of the best ways to learn. I don't know what I don't know, but the more people I listen to the more likely I am to find out. It seems to me that many of the people contributing to this forum are well worth listening to.
A more constructive way of looking at it is whether you still have anything to learn. I like to think that I'm a better driver this year than I was last year, it would be very depressing to think that I had nothing more to learn and my driving was never going to improve beyond this point. I think that talking to other people who take an active interest in driving skills is one of the best ways to learn. I don't know what I don't know, but the more people I listen to the more likely I am to find out. It seems to me that many of the people contributing to this forum are well worth listening to.
GreenV8S said:
A more constructive way of looking at it is whether you still have anything to learn. I like to think that I'm a better driver this year than I was last year, it would be very depressing to think that I had nothing more to learn and my driving was never going to improve beyond this point. I think that talking to other people who take an active interest in driving skills is one of the best ways to learn. I don't know what I don't know, but the more people I listen to the more likely I am to find out.
My sentiments exactly. 
JonRB said:
A more constructive way of looking at it is whether you still have anything to learn. I like to think that I'm a better driver this year than I was last year, it would be very depressing to think that I had nothing more to learn and my driving was never going to improve beyond this point. I think that talking to other people who take an active interest in driving skills is one of the best ways to learn. I don't know what I don't know, but the more people I listen to the more likely I am to find out.
And mine!
at GreenV8S
Hi my name is Tracy and I have had a clean driving licence since passing my test in '88. I don't think that makes me a good driver though. Lucky
I have had 3 accidents. All 3 were from being hit from the rear whilst stationary in wet weather. Never going forward to hit anyone else though. Unlucky
I really love cars and driving and have been thinking about doing advanced driver training for a while now. As the lovely EmmaP has passed her IAM she has inspired me to get my arse into gear and attempt the same.
Ace-T
Don said:
OK - thread hijack.
So.
Just because one has O level Maths and it means you can do arithmetic and geometry and so on does it mean there is no benefit in getting an A level?
After all you can have tons of experience at arithmetic and geometry, be really good at them, do wonderful joinery and building and all sort of great things with them. Does that mean there's no benefit in the A level?
Does that mean people with the A level "Certificate" shouldn't be allowed to teach maths because its a bit poncey and all you could ever need is O level so why not get people with O level to teach it?
See how it ridiculous it sounds? Although I guarantee there are those out there who think its true...not one of 'em could have got as far as E=mc2 let alone the host of other useful stuff that's not as advanced!
Getting the piece of paper is irrelevant anyway. Its getting the respect of your fellows and reaching the standard they deem "Advanced".
If you compare an IAM test to an A level its not far off in the analogy as, of course, you can go far, far beyond it - learning more and more. "Degree"s and "Doctorate's" in driving. And guess what. When you get those things you even get a CERTIFICATE to say you've done 'em - mainly for you to feel proud of and keep at home - there again you never know when an employer might want you to prove you have A level Maths - or a HGV licence - or even the RoSPA Gold you claim to have.
FFS. What a closed minded attitude.
So. Finally a forum in which we discuss motoring matters of driving skills and techniques. And we get a load of posts by people who want to take a pop at "elitist" groups who issue CERTIFICATES for driving skills achievement. Maybe because they don't have them themselves?
Igive up. I really do.
You want to criticise? Do it from a position of knowledge. You just don't "get it"? Well do the course. Show how easy it is to PASS. Show me the CERTIFICATE. And you can tell me how much was bollox and how much wasn't. And THEN I'll LISTEN!
Don you have got a very short fuse, take your tests, get your certificates,if it makes you happy thats all that matters.
It probably is`nt you that has a pop at all truck drivers and if all drivers were as well trained as you the roads would be a safer place but i get the impression that IAM ask the questions and then say they know best because of the certificate.
Can i ask you 2 questions.
I will give you 2 instances that happened to me,and you tell me what you would have done and if i did the same thing as you then do we have mutual respect even though i don`t have the certificate and you do.
Let me know and i`ll come back to you.
bmw114 said:
stuff
OK, so you've got loads of experience and further training won't improve you.
What about those who don't spend 8 hours a day behind the wheel of a truck? Don't you think we can make up for the lack of experience and get better with training?
What a very odd set of things to say.
Actually, in my post I said that despite having IAM, since I'd been driving less, my driving had got worse. Maybe you'd be happy to sit in the passenger seat of the Griff and give me some professional instruction, instead of slagging me (by association) off from the sidelines?
Sheesh
rude girl said:
stuff
loads of experience
lack of experience
Sheesh
I am enjoying this tread and please don`t get rattled by my comments, I am sure we are all on the same wave length.
I drive 3000k for a living 5 nights a week and in summer i get up at 4am on sunday and go for drive in my TR7 and do 200 miles round the north yorkshire moors before breakfast (in Appleby) by 8.30am and the roads are all mine.
I do take my driving seriously,I like to think i drive at 85% of my capability.
I do drive fast because i need the buzz,i do 60 on the straight and i try to do 60 round the bends.
If you followed me one sunday i would want you to enjoy it and not be frightened just the same as if i followed you the sunday after.
Don`t forget if i lose my licence, i lose my job.
My car does 115mph ish, thats quite fast enough for me.
Lastly there is a kid in Cyprus with a Civic type R giving 270 bhp and he said "Next time you come over i take you for a ride in my car".
I`m going this sunday so this might be the last time you hear from me. DON`T SAY IT.......
BMW114,
Could you simply post the 2 questions on a new thread please, for all to openly discuss in a polite/pleasant/friendly manner?
You're happy with your standard of driving, and you may be a better driver than most of us (and without certificates too) - great.
Most of us here don't have the benefit of gaining experience by driving 7-odd hours per day - but we have got off our backsides and made a deliberate and determined effort and committment to improving our driving skills, awareness and consideration, and at a personal cost (both financial and time).
Sure - there may be some who did it for certificates sake* - but at least they are still at a higher knowledge/awareness level than most and is 1 less worry on the road - particularly for the likes of yourself (as a lorry driver).
And I agree with you that experience helps. However, education helps too .... you need to know what the right thing to do is, or what you are doing wrong. Once you know then you can practice it, over and over.
K
* I doubt very much if this applies to any PHer.
Could you simply post the 2 questions on a new thread please, for all to openly discuss in a polite/pleasant/friendly manner?
You're happy with your standard of driving, and you may be a better driver than most of us (and without certificates too) - great.
Most of us here don't have the benefit of gaining experience by driving 7-odd hours per day - but we have got off our backsides and made a deliberate and determined effort and committment to improving our driving skills, awareness and consideration, and at a personal cost (both financial and time).
Sure - there may be some who did it for certificates sake* - but at least they are still at a higher knowledge/awareness level than most and is 1 less worry on the road - particularly for the likes of yourself (as a lorry driver).
And I agree with you that experience helps. However, education helps too .... you need to know what the right thing to do is, or what you are doing wrong. Once you know then you can practice it, over and over.
K
* I doubt very much if this applies to any PHer.
hi bmw114
We should have a run out one Sunday morning. You are not a million miles away from me, so we should be able to arrange something.
I'll show you what the basic principles of IAM are, if you like. Absolutely no lecturing at all. IAM stuff doesn't work for everyone although it could be a real benefit to many people.
You up for it? It would have to be in a few weeks though. Work is mental at the moment.
We should have a run out one Sunday morning. You are not a million miles away from me, so we should be able to arrange something.
I'll show you what the basic principles of IAM are, if you like. Absolutely no lecturing at all. IAM stuff doesn't work for everyone although it could be a real benefit to many people.
You up for it? It would have to be in a few weeks though. Work is mental at the moment.
bmw114 said:
Don you have got a very short fuse, take your tests, get your certificates,if it makes you happy thats all that matters.
Against my better judgement I decided to review this thread again.
But OK. You are actually right. I'm afraid I vented my spleen a bit because your post happened at a time when we'd just a load of other posts varying in degrees of helpfulness, frankly. So I apologise for being short with you...your post certainly did not deserve my response by itself.
bmw114 said:
It probably is`nt you that has a pop at all truck drivers and if all drivers were as well trained as you the roads would be a safer place but i get the impression that IAM ask the questions and then say they know best because of the certificate.
There may be the odd pillock in the IAM who believe they know better than anyone and everyone else because they got a qualification twenty years ago! Most aren't like that, I assure you. But when one has put in as much time and effort as I have into the IAM I'm afraid when people are dismissisve of it I always question "why?".
bmw114 said:
Can i ask you 2 questions.
I will give you 2 instances that happened to me,and you tell me what you would have done and if i did the same thing as you then do we have mutual respect even though i don`t have the certificate and you do.
Let me know and i`ll come back to you.
Sure you can...on another thread: Something like "Two Driving Incidents: How would *you* handle them." Then you can compare responses from people against what you did and decide whether there's any merit in what others think - not just me - I'm just one guy. Maybe I'd be "right" and may I'd be "wrong" - the strength of the IAM isn't in just one member - its in the movement as a whole making a small improvement in the driving of a great many (we wish!) - making the road system just that little bit safer overall.
Here's a general principle though: What the IAM teach is the "System of Car Control". Its purpose is to ensure the right thing is done at the right time - to one major purpose: To create "time to react". The idea is that incidents never happen in the first place. Its the art of spotting the potential of a dangerous situation and being somewhere else.
I measure my success not in terms of "close shaves avoided" - but the number of "close shaves I didn't have". How do I know there were any? Well I don't. I can't. All I can do is count how long its been since there was one.
Thankfully its been a while! But it not like it couldn't happen again anytime soon - it could. All I'm trying to do is reduce the chances.
Just like you - I'll bet. Yes IAM training helps. I'd be a fool if I said experience didn't help too - it most certainly does. I will say this - no amount of experience makes up for a lack of knowledge. Just as no amount of knowledge makes up for a lack of experience...
JMGS4 - John
rode my first motorbike in '56 (farm)
passed my bike test in '62, car in '64, HGV (wasn't called that then) in '67,
drove all over the world with HM forces, also instructed, later drove CP after a course with the then SBs, then became a civvy, and moved to Germany due to Labour under Wilson.....
and drive around 120000km/year. Have done all the Audi safety courses (very good BTW) and some of the Porsche ones (not so good, less safety more speed) and still learning even if I'm a grandfather and a GOM!!!
rode my first motorbike in '56 (farm)
passed my bike test in '62, car in '64, HGV (wasn't called that then) in '67,
drove all over the world with HM forces, also instructed, later drove CP after a course with the then SBs, then became a civvy, and moved to Germany due to Labour under Wilson.....
and drive around 120000km/year. Have done all the Audi safety courses (very good BTW) and some of the Porsche ones (not so good, less safety more speed) and still learning even if I'm a grandfather and a GOM!!!
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