Irrational fear of applying throttle in bends after bump

[lockey1995]

So before i start ive had this on and off for a while but its been worse since having confidence knocked from a car accident a month ago. Luckily nothing bad although it did write the mx5 off a van pulled out on me off a bend and hit it at about 15 mph. Didnt look too bad at first but the crumple some was done on drivers side.

I do now have another mk1 mx5 and general driving has been fine but still been a little jumpy at times with the fear of someone coming out of nowhere completely irrational but i guess it'll take time to get back completely.

But as of recent ive had this irrational fear of getting on throttle mainly to balance car in the bends as you should keep worrying itll just go from underneath me mid bend if i get on power, I'm guessing this is totally irrational in a mk1 mx5 standard power in the dry my brain knows what to do like i used to but my foot doesnt move when I'm on past 3 quarters and can see all the way i can. But it sort of feels like the car is always getting away from me and it's not fun.

Last point how do you know you're reaching the limit obviously not going to try and find that out on the road at all but just curious what it feels like and is it more Instant loss or more gradual?

Edit: was meant to say small bump in title auto correct lol

Edited by lockey1995 on Saturday 7th October 22:18

[brisel]

My mother in law wrote a MX5 off by applying too much power coming off a roundabout near Cheadle that had adverse camber.

I have spent a little time in a turbo charged Mk 1 MX5 but was very careful not to apply more power in a bend other than to maintain speed. It just wasn’t worth risking having it swap ends for the sake of an extra second gained. I have never provoked it enough to know when approaching the limit of adhesion so I can’t help you there. At the very least, imagine a piece of string between the steering wheel and the throttle - as the steering comes off, the power can come on.

If you would like to explore the limits in a safe environment, a day with Don Palmer or Car Limits will help. I would recommend on road coaching first for confidence building in reading the road and the many hazards on it. Try the IAM, RoADAR as budget options, then Reg Local or http://www.high-performance-course.com/

[rallye101]

Take your time, start off cornering again at 12mph and work your way up to 24mph in 3mph/2 week increments

[lockey1995]

brisel said:

My mother in law wrote a MX5 off by applying too much power coming off a roundabout near Cheadle that had adverse camber.

I have spent a little time in a turbo charged Mk 1 MX5 but was very careful not to apply more power in a bend other than to maintain speed. It just wasn’t worth risking having it swap ends for the sake of an extra second gained. I have never provoked it enough to know when approaching the limit of adhesion so I can’t help you there. At the very least, imagine a piece of string between the steering wheel and the throttle - as the steering comes off, the power can come on.

If you would like to explore the limits in a safe environment, a day with Don Palmer or Car Limits will help. I would recommend on road coaching first for confidence building in reading the road and the many hazards on it. Try the IAM, RoADAR as budget options, then Reg Local or http://www.high-performance-course.com/

Im not too far away from there staffordshire way, I've caught slides previously exiting round abouts in wet before so that's not too bad but that's lower speed definitely would want to find out at 60 plus esp on road. On the unwinding the steering off and throttle I do that I just thought you had to say be about 30 to 50 percent throttle to balance the car around bend.

What i used to do was brake straight rev match down to gear needed trail some throttle then as i see exit open up throttle from there but as you said you're probably saving a second or so.

[lockey1995]

EmailAddress said:

The limit is an ever changing point.

Could be the tyre ratio with more or less flexibility giving a gradual or snappy loss of grip.

Weather, road conditions, wind.

Power / torque application.

Sound, squeals, the tyres sticking to hot tarmac.

The only way you'll be more aware and be able to feel or predict better is through practice at and near the limit.

Yeah true, but i guess to have a scary slide on a b road for example youd have to be driving like a bit of a tool in the dry in a mk1 5. The second point yeah i think some track time is in order at somepoint. I've never one gone into a bend and heard rear wheels squeal.

[InitialDave]

lockey1995 said:

But it sort of feels like the car is always getting away from me and it's not fun.

Last point how do you know you're reaching the limit obviously not going to try and find that out on the road at all but just curious what it feels like and is it more Instant loss or more gradual?

This isn't really normal, what tyres do you have on it, and is the suspension in good nick and in alignment?

Assuming all is good, and it's more your feeling than something the car is actually doing, a bit of time on a skidpan or similar so you can freely mess about with the balance of the car and get a feel for it. I'm not sure it's really a feeling that you can communicate in writing very well, but I guess I'd say it's the feeling of the pivot point the car is rotating around moving forward underneath you.

[_Leg_]

brisel said:

applying too much power

lol

[lockey1995]

EmailAddress said:

It sounds like you're asking Track questions over Advanced Driving.

I'm a little confused as to what exactly you're trying to achieve.

I didn't mean it to come across like that at all,it's more getting the car balanced through the corner in terms of throttle application so it's not unstable. I was just curious when I asked what does it feel like getting to the limit not that im trying to replicate that in the road

[lockey1995]

InitialDave said:

This isn't really normal, what tyres do you have on it, and is the suspension in good nick and in alignment?

Assuming all is good, and it's more your feeling than something the car is actually doing, a bit of time on a skidpan or similar so you can freely mess about with the balance of the car and get a feel for it. I'm not sure it's really a feeling that you can communicate in writing very well, but I guess I'd say it's the feeling of the pivot point the car is rotating around moving forward underneath you.

185 45 14 i think size toyo t1r allignment wise not 100 percent looking at getting a fast road soon it feels alright but it could be slightly out.

[dvenman]

lockey1995 said:

I was just curious when I asked what does it feel like getting to the limit

You can't ask someone on an Internet what it feels like and expect to be able to recognise it on the road, which I sort of think is what you're trying to do.

Find a Don Palmer / Car Limits or equivalent near you, explain your situation, and learn that way.

Or find a local RoSPA/IAM group and get some advice that way.

[Caddyshack]

Go out late at night when it has rained and play on a few quiet roundabouts or find an airfield type track day and take some spare wheels.

[tihouss]

I'm absolutely no expert, but I've driven quite a few miles in all conditions in low-powered RWD saloons (stock 1200 mk1 Cortina, and '77 Giulia).

My take on it is thus: if you keep your eyes as far away into the corner as possible, looking out for anything that would unsettle the car, and be as smooth as you can, you're fine. In the dry, on the road, it's nigh on impossible for anything bad to happen bar an oil slick.
In the wet, snow etc, tyres will be of utmost importance and you'll have to be even smoother.

[Marc p]

It’s completely normal to feel like you do, especially so soon after the accident, give it a few months and you’ll become more comfortable.

I’ve had a few accidents, both on and off the track, but the only one that involved another car was when I was rear ended at a decent speed, for the next few months I didn’t trust any other road user that was behind me and found myself braking earlier and slower than before, all whilst being very focused on the car behind.

Accidents do change us and although, for most, we become slower on the road, it makes us far more aware of anticipating potential issues or what another car may do and you’ll be a better driver for it.

[HustleRussell]

OP am I right in saying that your fear of losing the car on the throttle is basically unrelated to the accident? Or am I misunderstanding?

Also, Toyo T1R? A very old tyre pattern. Think they stopped making them years ago. How old are yours?

[Marc p]

HustleRussell said:

OP am I right in saying that your fear of losing the car on the throttle is basically unrelated to the accident? Or am I misunderstanding?

Also, Toyo T1R? A very old tyre pattern. Think they stopped making them years ago. How old are yours?

Will wait for OP to confirm, but as I read it, the collision happened on the exit of a corner and they now find themselves being overly cautious on the exit of a corner.

[Bryanwww]

Had a 1.8 MK3 mx5 that I put in a ditch one time and it always scared me after that, really hard to catch once the back stepped out but it had so much grip for its power this would only ever be a problem in the wet, it's just that you'd be going fast when you ran out of grip and the short square wheelbase makes it very snappy.

Had a go in a 2.0 with an LSD recently and it was night and day difference in how it handled at the limit, could smoothly drift around corners and do donuts and correct it when I stepped out using the throttle whereas open diff throttle didn't help once it was going sideways. It also had stability and traction control so I could see where those were kicking in and then turn them off and push a bit further than where they kicked in before

Tyres also make a massive difference, you can have high grip tyres which have a sudden transition to sliding which is imo is the worse combo as you'll be going fast when they suddenly let go.

Good tyres should give a smooth transition from grip to slip so you can work out where the limit is and push on a bit harder from there.

You just need an open space to throw the car around a bit to figure out the limits. Only driven MK2 and mk3's but I'd guess a MK1 on modern tyres on a dry road wouldn't step out easily unless you deliberatly flicked it into the corner or hit water/mud.

Edited by Bryanwww on Sunday 8th October 19:45

[flatlandsman]

My advice

Skid pan or even better take your car somewhere where you can mess about with no danger, a field or a car park and mess about. I know it is not really the correct thing to do, but your confidence will improve far more doing this I feel.

[lockey1995]

dvenman said:

You can't ask someone on an Internet what it feels like and expect to be able to recognise it on the road, which I sort of think is what you're trying to do.

Find a Don Palmer / Car Limits or equivalent near you, explain your situation, and learn that way.

Or find a local RoSPA/IAM group and get some advice that way.

That does make sense you need to feel it same as anything in a car those car limit days look good might have to try and get on one.

[lockey1995]

HustleRussell said:

OP am I right in saying that your fear of losing the car on the throttle is basically unrelated to the accident? Or am I misunderstanding?

Also, Toyo T1R? A very old tyre pattern. Think they stopped making them years ago. How old are yours?

Yes it's unrelated it just came about more after the incident, the tyres are brand new near enough its the newer proxes not the older ones think they did two types.

[lockey1995]

Marc p said:

Will wait for OP to confirm, but as I read it, the collision happened on the exit of a corner and they now find themselves being overly cautious on the exit of a corner.

Yes it did, the guy came out of an entrance not even an exit so yeah i feel way more cautious whats on the other side which im guessing is a good thing really. Scares me thinking of how many people barrel in and hope its clear