Does 250bhp mean twice as much fun as 125bhp.
Discussion
Now i`m not talking about on the track here, i`m talking about the public highway.
We all like to have a bit of fun but "lets be careful out there".
I like to think that when i`m in the mood i drive within 85%of my maximum so that if i come across the unexpected i`v got a chance.
My 2 seater summer car gives about 125bhp so i can give it some stick without being public enemy number one, if you had 250bhp i`d be tanking on and you would be holding back so who would be having more fun.
If you really put your toe down you would be running hell of a risk (death, a ban, loss of your no claims)were as i would just be risking serious injury, 10 points, and possible loss of my no claims.
When you weigh up the fun factor with cost and risk are you happy.
Two of you racing round B roads at 75mph is just as much fun as two of you doing it at 125mph IMO.
By the way if i lost my licence i`d lose my job.
We all like to have a bit of fun but "lets be careful out there".
I like to think that when i`m in the mood i drive within 85%of my maximum so that if i come across the unexpected i`v got a chance.
My 2 seater summer car gives about 125bhp so i can give it some stick without being public enemy number one, if you had 250bhp i`d be tanking on and you would be holding back so who would be having more fun.
If you really put your toe down you would be running hell of a risk (death, a ban, loss of your no claims)were as i would just be risking serious injury, 10 points, and possible loss of my no claims.
When you weigh up the fun factor with cost and risk are you happy.
Two of you racing round B roads at 75mph is just as much fun as two of you doing it at 125mph IMO.
By the way if i lost my licence i`d lose my job.
250bhp in a 125bhp car wouldn't be twice as much fun, but 125bhp in a car that weight half as much would probably be more than twice the fun! All things being equal, better brakes, roadholding, and responsiveness lead to a more rewarding experience. I wouldn't want to have to drive it all day or for several hours at motorway speeds though, which is where a comfy everyday lardmobile wins out.
Zad said:
or for several hours at motorway speeds though, which is where a comfy everyday lardmobile wins out.
My idea of a fun drive would not involve a motorway, it would be, leave the gas station before dawn as cracked, do about 200 miles then stop for a full English and 2 cups of coffee then another 70 miles and home for 11.30am, walk the dog , watch a Grand Prix on TV then open a bottle or two.
In the past i have managed 200 miles and only passed 3 or 4 vehicles, at that time in the morning (Sunday) there`s nobody else out.
Thinking about it if you had 250bhp you would get to the greasy spoon first, the breakfast is on you.
slowly slowly said:
Two of you racing ...
Having a spirited drive on your own is one thing, as long as you do it safely and accept the possible implications for your licence. But when you start thinking in terms of competing against other drivers I think you're crossing a very dangerous line, better to save that for a safe environment not the public roads.GreenV8S said:
Two of you racing ...
If I may extend that a little further, enjoying a swift drive on the open road in company with another like minded driver can be legitimate fun IMHO, but this should not be allowed to become a race. That is a very different matter.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Setting aside the smacked wrist about racing, I think your original point is valid. If you are an enthusiastic driver then for a given speed you will probably have more fun in an old nail that had to be driven hard, rather than some higher performance car that could do it easily. I remember reading that a well known racing driver, Stirling Moss I think, used to hack around in a poxy old banger on the grounds he could have fun and still keep his license.
smacked wrist about racing, I think your original point is valid. If you are an enthusiastic driver then for a given speed you will probably have more fun in an old nail that had to be driven hard, rather than some higher performance car that could do it easily. I remember reading that a well known racing driver, Stirling Moss I think, used to hack around in a poxy old banger on the grounds he could have fun and still keep his license.If it has wheels and an engien connected to them then it can be fun. I've had a bloody Daewoo Kalos hire car for the last week and it was fun round the welsh mountains with 72bhp whether it was designed for it or not.
I do find more powerful casrs safer. It gives you an extra dimension for negotiating hazards. In a slow car you can go left, right or you can brake. In something quick you can do those plus you have the added dimesion of being able to accelerate to move out of a dangerous situation.
For instance you can see an impending box-in on a motorway where you have a traffic alongside you to the right and an HGV to the left that iminently will need to pull out into your lane (i use need in this context because if an HGV wants something it invariably becomes a "need" as far as other lighter traffic is concerned). You have space in front of you, but with more power available you can move to that space quicker thus reducing your time exposed to danger. Other situations can be dealt with in a similar manner, granted they're not a common every day occurrence but they do happen.
I do find more powerful casrs safer. It gives you an extra dimension for negotiating hazards. In a slow car you can go left, right or you can brake. In something quick you can do those plus you have the added dimesion of being able to accelerate to move out of a dangerous situation.
For instance you can see an impending box-in on a motorway where you have a traffic alongside you to the right and an HGV to the left that iminently will need to pull out into your lane (i use need in this context because if an HGV wants something it invariably becomes a "need" as far as other lighter traffic is concerned). You have space in front of you, but with more power available you can move to that space quicker thus reducing your time exposed to danger. Other situations can be dealt with in a similar manner, granted they're not a common every day occurrence but they do happen.
No question, power is not the most important factor in making a car enjoyable. What counts is responsiveness, especially in terms of steering and handling. This means that light weight is what you need, which also benefits the power to weight and torque to weight ratios, giving responsive acceleration. Top speed is pretty much irrelevant on public roads. It's the law of diminishing returns; my son's KA has something like 65bhp but it's a great drive down a twisty road - my Impreza with 215bhp is nothing like 3 times quicker or 3 times as much fun. (Not that said son is convinced by this - all he want is more power.)
The only time power and torque really count, of course, is when you need to overtake decisively and safely in situations where others have to hang back. I must admit, the Impreza has the KA beaten hands down at that particular trick!
The only time power and torque really count, of course, is when you need to overtake decisively and safely in situations where others have to hang back. I must admit, the Impreza has the KA beaten hands down at that particular trick!
What makes any car fun to drive is how it responds to control inputs.
i.e. Sharp steering, phenomenal brakes and, sorry I'm afraid its true, high levels of power to weight ratio.
Different philosphies apply but a light car will respond to all its control systems better than a heavier one.
But more power is usually good - provided it doesn't come with excessive weight.
I drive a 260bhp car that weighs a good deal less than most family saloons with half its power. Its no surprise its more fun to drive.
As to 75mph vs 125mph?
I don't believe speed has anything to do with how much fun a good drive out is. I take immenense satisfaction from punting my Porsche around the twisties to the very best of my ability - given that I have compromised nothing for safety. Who cares how fast it was? Some twit in a Micra could easily do it faster. All you have to do is not care about being able to stop if necessary.
>> Edited by Don on Sunday 9th April 16:06
i.e. Sharp steering, phenomenal brakes and, sorry I'm afraid its true, high levels of power to weight ratio.
Different philosphies apply but a light car will respond to all its control systems better than a heavier one.
But more power is usually good - provided it doesn't come with excessive weight.
I drive a 260bhp car that weighs a good deal less than most family saloons with half its power. Its no surprise its more fun to drive.
As to 75mph vs 125mph?
I don't believe speed has anything to do with how much fun a good drive out is. I take immenense satisfaction from punting my Porsche around the twisties to the very best of my ability - given that I have compromised nothing for safety. Who cares how fast it was? Some twit in a Micra could easily do it faster. All you have to do is not care about being able to stop if necessary.
>> Edited by Don on Sunday 9th April 16:06
leosayer said:
I like to think that when i`m in the mood i drive within 85%of my maximum so that if i come across the unexpected i`v got a chance.
Ability...
85% of my best might only be 75% of your best.
Its just a figure i`v settled on and it keeps the fun in driving.
It works for me...
GreenV8S said:
I remember reading that a well known racing driver, Stirling Moss I think, used to hack around in a poxy old banger on the grounds he could have fun and still keep his license.
So what you mean is if he lost his licence he would lose his job hmmmmm.
I wrote that earlier and it seemed to have some people confused, strange.
James Hunt used to drive a Austin A35 van (or estate) but then again i think he was skint by then.
Each vehicle has its own merits. I swapped for a Peugeot 206 this last weekend and took it for a couple of hundred miles round the Cotswolds. Overtaking on NSLs is harder in a lower powered car with such little acceleration available at 40+
Smoothness is a doddle, however, when there appears to be no response to the controls...
Smoothness is a doddle, however, when there appears to be no response to the controls...
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