Does 250bhp mean twice as much fun as 125bhp.
Discussion
7db said:
Each vehicle has its own merits. I swapped for a Peugeot 206 this last weekend and took it for a couple of hundred miles round the Cotswolds. Overtaking on NSLs is harder in a lower powered car with such little acceleration available at 40+
Smoothness is a doddle, however, when there appears to be no response to the controls...
That reminds me of a friend from way back. He used to have a 3.4 Jaguar but one day he turned up in a Ford Zephyr loan car while the Jaguar was being serviced.
"Nothing happens when I try to accelerate!" he said. By the general standards of those days the Zephyr was a fairly lively car, but these things are all relative.
Incidentally the first time I had a roadside interview with a Traffic Officer (circa. 1962), he was driving a black Zephyr. In those day police cars were invaraibly black with just a POLICE sign front and rear, and no other markings. Anyhow he just ticked me off and left it at that, which I thought was very fair in the circumstances.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Don said:
As to 75mph vs 125mph?
I don't believe speed has anything to do with how much fun a good drive out is. I take immenense satisfaction from punting my Porsche around the twisties to the very best of my ability - given that I have compromised nothing for safety. Who cares how fast it was? Some twit in a Micra could easily do it faster. All you have to do is not care about being able to stop if necessary.
This is the essence and spirit of 'the hoon' I think.
One of the most fun drives I've had in recent years was a little twisty dropping through Datrmoor last spring.
Maximum progress where visibility allowed and control in situations where it didn't allow outright pace.
Would've been okay in something with less power but more fun in something with some grunt.
I doubt I reacled NSL more than a few times in the 25 or so miles but I finished with a big grin.
GreenV8S said:
Two of you racing ...
Having a spirited drive on your own is one thing, as long as you do it safely and accept the possible implications for your licence. But when you start thinking in terms of competing against other drivers I think you're crossing a very dangerous line, better to save that for a safe environment not the public roads.
The thing is competition depends on the point of view of the driver!
I've had a spirited drive on my own, and come across other spirited drivers, if the other driver has more spirit then I won't go beyond my personal hooning comfort levels to try keep up or stay "competitive", because it simply isn't a competition. Ie, no faster or more risky than I would in isolation.
So it comes down to the attitudes of those taking part, not what you categorise the occasion as! I keep seeing many organised runs out here on PH, and I'm sure that for many the moderate pace is beyond what some are comfortable with, lets say your average Sunday driver. Now, if they choose to try to keep up, does that mean they are racing? I probably think it's ok. The problem lies when someone decides that THEY will exceed their comfort zone simply to keep up, perhaps competing where the car they are following is driving quite safely!
The problem is the attitude of the driver who turns an enjoyable safe drive out, into a competition, and this may be only one of the two drivers or several in a large group!
By the initial definition, a group of 10 bikers going out for a razz in summer is a race, they usually travel in excess of the general flow of the traffic, and stick together in a group! However, I would define racing as when any given driver exceeds their comfort zone, or drives in a dangerous manner for the prevailing conditions, purely to keep up with the others they are driving/riding with!
If they can't exercise self control in a group, then that is due to their attitude, not the circumstances or conditions they are surrounded by!
Probably not the most clear reasoning, but it shouldn't matter if you go out with a mate for a drive and you both drive enthusiastically. As long as you know where to draw the line you should be no more dangerous than you would be on your own. I believe the police call this red mist, and train to avoid being effected adversely by it. However, they still call such an event a pursuit, so can we consider it in the same way as a race? Surely it's all down to self control rather than simply being out with another driver having some fun KNOWING when enough is enough?
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 11th April 15:09
GreenV8S said:
I remember reading that a well known racing driver, Stirling Moss I think, used to hack around in a poxy old banger on the grounds he could have fun and still keep his license.
T'was dear old James Hunt, who used to enjoy an Austin A35 'cos he could get it sideways on roundabouts without having to do silly speeds.
Barrie Williams, one of those old boys who wipes the floor with the young 'uns in historic racing (he really is a terrific driver, one of the very best) also drives an A35.
Good thread, though.
I've got a Mazda MX5 that had 128bhp til I got it supercharged, now its got @ 185. (Measured at 193 at the wheels on a rolling road, but it hasn't got that much).
Last year when standard I took the car on a solo hoon around the french alps for a week and had a terrific time. Did the same again this year, with it supercharged. Was it more fun? Not tremendously so, partic. when you consider I've paid £3k to have it all done. It pinked slightly at high revs when at any sort of altitude despite the french 98 octane petrol. So really, on those wonderful, empty, fantastic roads the french have access to, it wasn't a whole lot more fun at all.
Where the car has been transformed is in its ability to overtake, and I did have one very memorable drive on the Route Napolean. There was just enough traffic to have spoilt the run had the car been standard, but with the extra power I really could overtake with impunity, it seemed.
>> Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 11th April 18:15
I've got a Mazda MX5 that had 128bhp til I got it supercharged, now its got @ 185. (Measured at 193 at the wheels on a rolling road, but it hasn't got that much).
Last year when standard I took the car on a solo hoon around the french alps for a week and had a terrific time. Did the same again this year, with it supercharged. Was it more fun? Not tremendously so, partic. when you consider I've paid £3k to have it all done. It pinked slightly at high revs when at any sort of altitude despite the french 98 octane petrol. So really, on those wonderful, empty, fantastic roads the french have access to, it wasn't a whole lot more fun at all.
Where the car has been transformed is in its ability to overtake, and I did have one very memorable drive on the Route Napolean. There was just enough traffic to have spoilt the run had the car been standard, but with the extra power I really could overtake with impunity, it seemed.
>> Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 11th April 18:15
heebeegeetee said:
Was it more fun? Not tremendously so, partic.
£3k on carbon fibre panels, lightweight wheels and some special tyres, along with general weight reduction would probably make it more fun though
This is the main reason I'm erring towards low mass, average power, ala VX220 or *maybe* Elise 160 Sport... just tons more thrills, but no faster than your average hot hatch really, except in lateral, and longitudinal acceleration
Dave
GreenV8S said:
I remember reading that a well known racing driver, Stirling Moss I think, used to hack around in a poxy old banger on the grounds he could have fun and still keep his license.
James Hunt : Austin A40. Michael ShoeMaker Fiat 500
would think most racing drivers like the speed without the risk on the road there is more risk with the number of people who are never paying enough attention. so then want slower car and perhaps more security
i used to find that i could have more fun in my little 106 rallye (100bhp) without driving completely bonkers (i.e. minimising risk of danger) than i can in my rx7 (280bhp). with more power and more weight i'm constantly having to concentrate far more on staying on the safer side of the mark whereas with the lightweight lesser-powered car i could just enjoy the drive and worry less obviously in the right circumstances, such as on a track, the rx7 is more fun, but just as my daily driver for going to the shops i loved the rallye.
obviously in the right circumstances, such as on a track, the rx7 is more fun, but just as my daily driver for going to the shops i loved the rallye.I have a metro that I use for my daily commute, and it's lack of abs and power steering make for great feedback and driver involvement, which has resulted in me going through a set of tyres and brakes in just under 6 months... despite the rustbucket only having about 50bhp and *most* of the driving being done at legal speeds!
>> Edited by joney on Friday 28th April 10:54
>> Edited by joney on Friday 28th April 10:54
joney said:
I have a metro that I use for my daily commute, and it's lack of abs and power steering make for great feedback and driver involvement, which has resulted in me going through a set of tyres and brakes in just under 6 months... despite the rustbucket only having about 50bhp and *most* of the driving being done at legal speeds!
>> Edited by joney on Friday 28th April 10:54
Yep, them old Metro's were not bad. Plenty of thrills can be had in older cars, just because they take so much work to drive at even a moderate pace like them old Spitfire's... and it's that which is the reward, hard work and feedback, rather than speed!
To be honest I'm left cold by most modern stuff now. Lad across the road has just got an almost mint Nova SRI with a few choice additions, and I just bet it won't be *that* quick, but he'll have some right smiles driving it around. Seems to have good taste, had an old Mini until recently too!
Dave
I had a midas Gold 1275cc, in MG Metro tune. 700kg, amazing handling ,twisty road = Extreme fun! Could have done with more power mainly because it was probably running only 60BHP at the time, still great fun though..it would have been sensational with a tuned A series at 125BHP.. 250BHP would be too much for that car!
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