FOG LIGHT MENACE
Discussion
I would be interested to know if there are other motorists out there who are heartily sick & tired of idiots who drive around with their front fog lights blazing? This appears to be a practise that has crept into increasing use over the last five years or so. It is an EXTREMELY BAD habit. Can somebody please explain, why it makes your car look 'cool' to drive around with your fog lights on & you sidelights on? What is this all about?! Fact 1:- Fog lights ARE NOT alternative driving lights. They should NEVER be used except in appropriately foggy conditions. Fact 2:- It is an offence to drive around with front fog lights illuminated in anything other than fog bound conditions. It can result in a £30.00p Fixed Penalty ticket.
Fact 3:- Fog lights are not designed to produce a cone of light in the same way a headlight does. Fog lights are actually quite crude, they produce considerable glare. This glare can potentially dazzle oncoming drivers. Fact 4:- An auxillery driving light MUST be mounted in the same horizontal plain as the headlights in order for it to be utilised as such. The 'spotlights' mounted beneath the bumpers on modern cars ARE NOT 'spotlights,' they are FOG LIGHTS.
I am hacked off by the number of buffoons who insist on driving around with fog lights glaring. It is selfish to other road users, & potentially dangerous.
Why are the worst offenders nearly always driving one of the following:- Vauxhall Nova SRi(WITH MAX POWER or 'NO FEAR' sticker on display), Vauxhall Corsa (Oh please!) Ford Focus,(WANNA BE COLIN McCRAY SYNDROME PERHAPS?) Ford Fiesta, BMW 3 Series (usually a combination of sidelights only with fog lights-HOW COOL. NOT!!!!). I would be most interested to hear others views regarding this menace.
Oh yeah, nearly forgot, if I catch you doing it in the county of Merseyside, I WILL issue you with a £30.00p fixed whizzer for being so STUPID & SO UNCOOL. Be warned, MAX POWER & BASS TUBE BRIGADE..........
Cheers,
Pc Pedmeister
Fact 3:- Fog lights are not designed to produce a cone of light in the same way a headlight does. Fog lights are actually quite crude, they produce considerable glare. This glare can potentially dazzle oncoming drivers. Fact 4:- An auxillery driving light MUST be mounted in the same horizontal plain as the headlights in order for it to be utilised as such. The 'spotlights' mounted beneath the bumpers on modern cars ARE NOT 'spotlights,' they are FOG LIGHTS.
I am hacked off by the number of buffoons who insist on driving around with fog lights glaring. It is selfish to other road users, & potentially dangerous.
Why are the worst offenders nearly always driving one of the following:- Vauxhall Nova SRi(WITH MAX POWER or 'NO FEAR' sticker on display), Vauxhall Corsa (Oh please!) Ford Focus,(WANNA BE COLIN McCRAY SYNDROME PERHAPS?) Ford Fiesta, BMW 3 Series (usually a combination of sidelights only with fog lights-HOW COOL. NOT!!!!). I would be most interested to hear others views regarding this menace.
Oh yeah, nearly forgot, if I catch you doing it in the county of Merseyside, I WILL issue you with a £30.00p fixed whizzer for being so STUPID & SO UNCOOL. Be warned, MAX POWER & BASS TUBE BRIGADE..........
Cheers,
Pc Pedmeister
Sidelights? well they come on when I put key in the ignition, (Volvo) so thats why I drive around with them on.
Front fog lights, not sure if that is the correct term, correct me if I am wrong. Anyway I use mine at nights on unlit roads, (dual carriageways), they illuminate the sides of the roads, why folk use them during the day, god only knows. I always thought front fog lights were sort of non white lights? or was that a thing of the past? sort of yellow which were supposed to penetrate a little further into the fog then white light.
What does get up my nose is folk who use their high intensity rear lights, (fog lights for want of a better word), when there is almost infinite visibilty, and they wonder why I keep flashing my headlights to attract their attention. Driving behind one of them just annoys the hell out of me, almost as bad as oncoming drivers who simply refuse to dip their lights, or one beam is stuck on full beam for reasons unbeknown to me.
Incidently, can you point me in the direction of the reference to a fine for having front "fog" lights on in daylight? just curious what it says.
P.S. Just checked the HC, it says:
-
You must not use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users.
Law RVLR reg 27 (I think the term seriously reduced, is further defined somewhere as a distance)
So presumably that is what they can fine you for, how many get stopped I wonder, but the questions remains, are those white lights on my Volvo actually deemed to be "Fog Lights" must chase that one up.
>> Edited by vipers on Wednesday 3rd May 07:21
>> Edited by vipers on Wednesday 3rd May 07:26
Front fog lights, not sure if that is the correct term, correct me if I am wrong. Anyway I use mine at nights on unlit roads, (dual carriageways), they illuminate the sides of the roads, why folk use them during the day, god only knows. I always thought front fog lights were sort of non white lights? or was that a thing of the past? sort of yellow which were supposed to penetrate a little further into the fog then white light.
What does get up my nose is folk who use their high intensity rear lights, (fog lights for want of a better word), when there is almost infinite visibilty, and they wonder why I keep flashing my headlights to attract their attention. Driving behind one of them just annoys the hell out of me, almost as bad as oncoming drivers who simply refuse to dip their lights, or one beam is stuck on full beam for reasons unbeknown to me.
Incidently, can you point me in the direction of the reference to a fine for having front "fog" lights on in daylight? just curious what it says.
P.S. Just checked the HC, it says:
-
You must not use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users.
Law RVLR reg 27 (I think the term seriously reduced, is further defined somewhere as a distance)
So presumably that is what they can fine you for, how many get stopped I wonder, but the questions remains, are those white lights on my Volvo actually deemed to be "Fog Lights" must chase that one up.
>> Edited by vipers on Wednesday 3rd May 07:21
>> Edited by vipers on Wednesday 3rd May 07:26
WE ALL HATE FOGLIGHT NUMPTIES! I don't drive around with front fog lights on myself but I would just comment that in my experience they don't actually dazzle. The whole point of front fog lights is that they have a very sharp horizontal cut off to the beam pattern in order to avoid light being reflected back off the fog, reducing visibility for the driver. Conversely, they have a wide beam in order to illuminate the verges on both sides of the road.
So, a short range and wide spread of light actually makes them a pretty good idea for low speed driving in conditions where there are likely to be hazards on the sides of the road but you don't want to dazzle other drivers - in town, say!
Of course, this assumes that they are proper fog lights and are correctly aimed. As I say, I don't use them myself because it's illegal but I don't find front fogs annoying in the way that rear fogs are. Now there is a source of frustration!!
So, a short range and wide spread of light actually makes them a pretty good idea for low speed driving in conditions where there are likely to be hazards on the sides of the road but you don't want to dazzle other drivers - in town, say!
Of course, this assumes that they are proper fog lights and are correctly aimed. As I say, I don't use them myself because it's illegal but I don't find front fogs annoying in the way that rear fogs are. Now there is a source of frustration!!
gdaybruce said:
I don't drive around with front fog lights on myself but I would just comment that in my experience they don't actually dazzle.
Try sitting in a low-slung sports car like a TVR with a BMW X5 with fogs blazing right behind you. You can't look in the mirror!
So whilst most of the time I'd agree they're just annoying rather than dazzling there ARE times when they DO present a problem. This is why you get "foglight numpty" threads on here - many PHers have low to very low cars.
Don said:
I don't drive around with front fog lights on myself but I would just comment that in my experience they don't actually dazzle.
Try sitting in a low-slung sports car like a TVR with a BMW X5 with fogs blazing right behind you. You can't look in the mirror!
So whilst most of the time I'd agree they're just annoying rather than dazzling there ARE times when they DO present a problem. This is why you get "foglight numpty" threads on here - many PHers have low to very low cars.
Fair point, Don. I certainly don't want to stand out on this thread as a defender of front fog lights!
One other point I'd make is that standard fit fogs are a complete waste of space. I can't recall a single occasion when fogs have helped me to see where I'm going in conditions of poor visibility. I dare say that it would be a different story with "proper" fogs from the likes of Cibie, Hella or PIAA, but the standard fit items are strictly for cosmetic purposes only. Even the impressive looking standard fogs on the front of my Impreza were useless, which is one reason why I changed them for a pair of Cibie driving lights, wired to come on only with main beam.
quote / Even the impressive looking standard fogs on the front of my Impreza were useless, which is one reason why I changed them for a pair of Cibie driving lights, wired to come on only with main beam /quote
But surely that is illegal as the lights are positioned too low.
I find rear high intensity (fog) lights far more annoying than front fog lights.
I also find it annoying when drivers who are stopped keep their foot on the brake pedal. At night it just ruins the night vision of the driver behind. Use the handbrake.
>> Edited by Philbes on Wednesday 3rd May 10:43
But surely that is illegal as the lights are positioned too low.
I find rear high intensity (fog) lights far more annoying than front fog lights.
I also find it annoying when drivers who are stopped keep their foot on the brake pedal. At night it just ruins the night vision of the driver behind. Use the handbrake.
>> Edited by Philbes on Wednesday 3rd May 10:43
Philbes said:
quote / Even the impressive looking standard fogs on the front of my Impreza were useless, which is one reason why I changed them for a pair of Cibie driving lights, wired to come on only with main beam /quote
But surely that is illegal as the lights are positioned too low.
I find rear high intensity (fog) lights far more annoying than front fog lights.
I also find it annoying when drivers who are stopped keep their foot on the brake pedal. At night it just ruins the night vision of the driver behind. Use the handbrake.
>> Edited by Philbes on Wednesday 3rd May 10:43
Not if they have a separate switch to enable them. i.e. if the switch is off the lights will never come on, if it's on then they come on with main beam. Obviously switched off for MoT and you shouldn't have main beam on when someone else is going to see/be dazzled anyway!
Might be technically illegal but you're unlikely to get 'done' for it.
iaint said:
quote / Even the impressive looking standard fogs on the front of my Impreza were useless, which is one reason why I changed them for a pair of Cibie driving lights, wired to come on only with main beam /quote
But surely that is illegal as the lights are positioned too low.
I find rear high intensity (fog) lights far more annoying than front fog lights.
I also find it annoying when drivers who are stopped keep their foot on the brake pedal. At night it just ruins the night vision of the driver behind. Use the handbrake.
>> Edited by Philbes on Wednesday 3rd May 10:43
Not if they have a separate switch to enable them. i.e. if the switch is off the lights will never come on, if it's on then they come on with main beam. Obviously switched off for MoT and you shouldn't have main beam on when someone else is going to see/be dazzled anyway!
Might be technically illegal but you're unlikely to get 'done' for it.
This is indeed the situation. I can keep the driving lights turned off and they can only ever be on when main beam is selected. I have a distant memory from my rallying days that driving/spot lights have to be mounted with their centres at least 24" above the road and within 18" of the edge of the car. No idea if this is still correct but, on that basis, my lights probably are too low. On the other hand, they are similar to the Prodrive conversion which is, I believe, authorised by Subaru. Not that this is any defence but since the only method of traffic law enforcement these days seems to be speed cameras and, so far as I know, they haven't yet developed a camera to differentiate between fogs and driving lights, I reckon I'll be OK! Plus, I can now see where I'm going which helps, I find!
>> Edited by gdaybruce on Wednesday 3rd May 11:50
trackcar said:
I hate foglight abusers, if i were trafpol I'd be pulling every last one of them in for a talking to!
Mind you i actually saw a trafpol the other day with his front fogs onand he managed to drive all the way around a roundabout and exit it without signalling once
makes you wonder.
I'm afraid to say regarding the above, this does not surprise me in the slightest. The Police Force/Army/Navy/Air Force, is only as good as the society they recruit from. My own view is that there is a general lack of discipline in society, many people have slack attitudes & this is reflected directly by their behaviour.Eg UNDERTAKING/TAILGATING/USING MOBILE PHONE WHILST DRIVING ETC.ETC.) I believe most people are well aware that it is de facto, an offence to drive with front fogs on. However, we now live in the ME & I society. I WILL decide which laws I obey, because it suits ME to do as I like!
If I had a pound coin everytime I have pulled a motorist regarding fog lights and heard, "I DIDN'T REALISE IT WAS AN OFFENCE."(usually accompanied by a VERY sheepish look)or "I'VE ONLY JUST GOT THE CAR & DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE ON." (also accompanied by that sheepish "ACTUALLY I AM LYING THROUGH MY BACK TEETH OFFICER," look on the counternance)I would be living in another country (IE One which offers QUALITY OF LIFE as opposed to this overcrowded, gridlocked little island) & driving an Aston DB9!!
Guys, what views do you have on the growing trend of traffic light contravention? I work in the county of Merseyside, in the last five years or so, there has been a huge increase in the number of people who steam through red T-light signals. I am NOT a HOB ie Traffic Officer (perish the thought!) I am a Response Officer and answer calls for service. Traffic is not really my bag. However, I am regularly issuing E/FPN for 3 pts & £60 fine in respect of the aforementioned offence. Is this problem just a local one, or is this a growing trend country wide?
I await your comments with interest gents!
Cheers!
PEDMEISTER said:
Guys, what views do you have on the growing trend of traffic light contravention? I work in the county of Merseyside, in the last five years or so, there has been a huge increase in the number of people who steam through red T-light signals. I am NOT a HOB ie Traffic Officer (perish the thought!) I am a Response Officer and answer calls for service. Traffic is not really my bag. However, I am regularly issuing E/FPN for 3 pts & £60 fine in respect of the aforementioned offence. Is this problem just a local one, or is this a growing trend country wide?
I await your comments with interest gents!
Cheers!
The trouble over the last few years with traffic lights, in London anyway, is that they seem to be phased to cause as much gridlock as possible. I constantly get held up at multi sets of lights where one will turn green and as you pull away the next set will turn red. There is also not many roundabouts left that don't have traffic lights on them, FFS, roundabouts were introduced to keep traffic moving not stop it.
At night lights don't seem to work on the pressure cables in the road any more whereby they would change in your favour when you approach them. I am always waiting at junctions that have nothing on the side roads or you approach a green light and it will turn red when you are about 25 yards from it, even if nothing is going the other way. I have even had to change my route to work as there is a set near my house where you can wait for up to 5 minutes before they go green.
Get the phasing sorted and the red light jumpers will decrease, although I never do it
PEDMEISTER said:
Guys, what views do you have on the growing trend of traffic light contravention?
Bloody hate it! (Grumpy Old Man syndrome). Hate the selfish bastards who, through a lack of care on their part or a misplaced sense of their own importance in respect to everyone else, put other people's lives at risk needlessly.
Having said this there must be a number of people who simply make an honest mistake. I can think of three:
1) My sister who simply confessed to the traffic officer she'd make a mistake due to too closely following an HGV and assuming it would only go through if the lights were green. They both got 3pts and £60 quid and she admitted to me she deserved it.
2) The old bloke who ran me over on a pedestrian crossing.
3) ME! I went on to a pedestrian crossing CONVINCED the light was green for me. The old bloke was CONVINCED the light was green for him.
Car whacks into front wheel of bike (I know I know - twit) and I go six feet in their air - boy did it hurt. Ah well. The two of us got away with no fine and no points but I've had to go to the osteopath. I reckon it was mostly my fault for not checking I could cross.
7db said:
My recollection is that using fog lights when visibility is not severely restricted is not an offence unless you cause dazzling as a result -- ie noone in front then no offence. I think it's a CUR reg.
It's an offence to misuse foglamps under Reg 27(2) Road vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989.
Miuse is covered by any of the following:
(a) used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road;
(b) used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility;
(c) used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
vonhosen said:
(b) used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility;
Isn't this covered by the Highway Code? If visibility drops below 100m you may switch on fog lights if the vehicle is equipped with them but you MUST switch them off if visibility improves?
Don said:
(b) used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility;
Isn't this covered by the Highway Code? If visibility drops below 100m you may switch on fog lights if the vehicle is equipped with them but you MUST switch them off if visibility improves?
The law the highway code is referring to is the Road vehicles lighting Regs.
vonhosen said:
My recollection is that using fog lights when visibility is not severely restricted is not an offence unless you cause dazzling as a result -- ie noone in front then no offence. I think it's a CUR reg.
It's an offence to misuse foglamps under Reg 27(2) Road vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989.
Miuse is covered by any of the following:
(a) used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road;
(b) used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility;
(c) used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Thanks VH. My recollection was clearly hazy! Just as well I don't have fog lamps...
Re comments on this site, jumping reds etc etc, a lot of it is I think the "Jekyll and Hyde" syndrome, Mr Nice as Pie, gets in his little tin box on wheels, and dramatically changes into a monster, with
I own the road
How dare you overtake me
Rules and Regulations DO NOT (r) DO NOT apply to me
I will drive as fast as I like
I will cut up whoever I like, wjen I like
We all meet them on a daily basis I'm afraid, although a minority (I think), they have a nasty habit of causing chaos and generally upsetting the rest of us carefull/considerate drivers on the roads.
I own the road
How dare you overtake me
Rules and Regulations DO NOT (r) DO NOT apply to me
I will drive as fast as I like
I will cut up whoever I like, wjen I like
We all meet them on a daily basis I'm afraid, although a minority (I think), they have a nasty habit of causing chaos and generally upsetting the rest of us carefull/considerate drivers on the roads.
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