HELP - a cyclist!!!
Discussion
I would be interested to hear what the 'experts' on here would have done in the following scenario. Please bear with me as I set the scene.
I was driving home from work yesterday. The route include a single carriageway, 2 lanes, uphill, with a relatively tight (ish) bend to the left. Hazard warning lines in the middle. Pavements both sides. Good conditions, dry and sunny. 30mph zone.
I usually drive up the hill in third, just under 30mph, at 2300 revs (approx). I slow to slightly less road speed for the bend. I take up a position towards the crest, to see and be seen, but without exagarating the position, not least as I have learned that drivers negotiating a Right Hander downhill seem to go over the centre line a lot.
Early scans using good observation had not shown anything other than normal traffic. However, as I rounded the bend, there was a cyclist. As it was steep he was going very slow. I had to slow down pretty quickly, then I went around him.
Please note that at no point was I in danger of hitting him. I'm just disapointed because as a trainee Advanced Driver, I felt the situation was a bit rushed. If the traffic towards had been really heavy I would have stayed behind the cyclist, but it would have meant coming to a rushed stop. The only way I can think of that I could have smoothed the whole thing out, would to have been going slower. Yet most other drivers up there go faster than me anyway, and I honestly thought that the speed I was doing was correct for the hazard. I would have dealt with the hazard better if I had gone through it at 20mph, but I believe that this would be a bit slow. Or does the above prove that it wouldn't be too slow, it would be correct. To do it at this speed I would have to go to 2nd.
Sorry about the rambling, but I was disapointed, and a little upset, at it all feeling a little bit rushed. It didn't feel to be Advanced Driving, yet I thought I was doing rather well. Any comments you could make would help, as I feel a little down, and I would like to know what I could do differently, or better.
Yours morosely
Sally
I was driving home from work yesterday. The route include a single carriageway, 2 lanes, uphill, with a relatively tight (ish) bend to the left. Hazard warning lines in the middle. Pavements both sides. Good conditions, dry and sunny. 30mph zone.
I usually drive up the hill in third, just under 30mph, at 2300 revs (approx). I slow to slightly less road speed for the bend. I take up a position towards the crest, to see and be seen, but without exagarating the position, not least as I have learned that drivers negotiating a Right Hander downhill seem to go over the centre line a lot.
Early scans using good observation had not shown anything other than normal traffic. However, as I rounded the bend, there was a cyclist. As it was steep he was going very slow. I had to slow down pretty quickly, then I went around him.
Please note that at no point was I in danger of hitting him. I'm just disapointed because as a trainee Advanced Driver, I felt the situation was a bit rushed. If the traffic towards had been really heavy I would have stayed behind the cyclist, but it would have meant coming to a rushed stop. The only way I can think of that I could have smoothed the whole thing out, would to have been going slower. Yet most other drivers up there go faster than me anyway, and I honestly thought that the speed I was doing was correct for the hazard. I would have dealt with the hazard better if I had gone through it at 20mph, but I believe that this would be a bit slow. Or does the above prove that it wouldn't be too slow, it would be correct. To do it at this speed I would have to go to 2nd.
Sorry about the rambling, but I was disapointed, and a little upset, at it all feeling a little bit rushed. It didn't feel to be Advanced Driving, yet I thought I was doing rather well. Any comments you could make would help, as I feel a little down, and I would like to know what I could do differently, or better.
Yours morosely
Sally
Hi Sally
One of the key things about advanced driving is that you have to plan for those things that you can reasonably expect to happen. I think it is reasonable to expect any number of hazards that will require you lose speed and/or stop.
It does sound like you were a little fast. Smoothness is the key. The only time you sacrifice smoothness is when you are in an emergency situation and you need to brake hard, fast.
One of the key things about advanced driving is that you have to plan for those things that you can reasonably expect to happen. I think it is reasonable to expect any number of hazards that will require you lose speed and/or stop.
It does sound like you were a little fast. Smoothness is the key. The only time you sacrifice smoothness is when you are in an emergency situation and you need to brake hard, fast.
I think that sometimes people fall into the trap of thinking they are going too slow because they have some idiot right up their back end trying to push them on. It is them going too fast not you going too slow. I must however admit that that particular thing was the thing which took most getting used to when i first started. At the end of the day you need to be able to stop in the vision available. If there had been a broken down vehicle it would have been the same. I know it's probably unlikely but that is what you need to prepare for.. don't beat yourself up about it. Just think of it as a learning point and remember it for the future. At least you care, most drivers would just pass it off without a thought.
Sally: You were able to stop/be slow enough. WELL DONE! OK, maybe a little quick into the bend for visibility - try it a little slower. But you were driving safely because when necessary you were able to avoid the cyclist. Don't be disappointed. Just build the knowledge you have gained into your driving...now you know that for that particular level of vision you want to be just a tad slower...lesson learned...no harm done.
Thank you for your kind comments. When I drive home tonight, I am going to see about the 'speed for the hazard'. I'm wondering if I've got complacent, having driven the road for so long.
I suppose that having stopped, it proves I wasn't going too fast per se, but it did all feel a bit rushed. Anyway, lets see what happens, and thank you for the morale boost.
By the way (and I realise this is a ridiculous question coming from an Associate) but do truly advanced drivers genuinely approach every single loss of vision with the thought "there may be a ...whatever...just around the bend" and plan accordingly. If so, how on earth do you keep the concentration up 24/7. I'm know I'm supposed to think this, and have a driving plan, I'm just not sure it's physically possible.
Right, I'm off to make everyones tea (tow the barge and lift the bale).
Regards
Sally
I suppose that having stopped, it proves I wasn't going too fast per se, but it did all feel a bit rushed. Anyway, lets see what happens, and thank you for the morale boost.
By the way (and I realise this is a ridiculous question coming from an Associate) but do truly advanced drivers genuinely approach every single loss of vision with the thought "there may be a ...whatever...just around the bend" and plan accordingly. If so, how on earth do you keep the concentration up 24/7. I'm know I'm supposed to think this, and have a driving plan, I'm just not sure it's physically possible.
Right, I'm off to make everyones tea (tow the barge and lift the bale).
Regards
Sally
Don said:
Sally: You were able to stop/be slow enough. WELL DONE! OK, maybe a little quick into the bend for visibility - try it a little slower. But you were driving safely because when necessary you were able to avoid the cyclist. Don't be disappointed. Just build the knowledge you have gained into your driving...now you know that for that particular level of vision you want to be just a tad slower...lesson learned...no harm done.
Indeed as others of said, if you could have stopped behind the cyclist your speed was OK in relation to safety, but maybe your margins were a little tight if you couldn't do it systematically (checking the mirror before brakes) OR smoothly. The key is anticipation. In every loss of vision expect the worst case scenario (road blocked) & if it's single track roads, worse than that is something coming directly at you big & fast.
Helping you remain systematic, will be checking the mirrors immeadiately before you go into loss of visions in anticipation of that worse case scenario. Then you'll always be ready to brake & remain systematic.
Lady Godiva said:
By the way (and I realise this is a ridiculous question coming from an Associate) but do truly advanced drivers genuinely approach every single loss of vision with the thought "there may be a ...whatever...just around the bend" and plan accordingly. If so, how on earth do you keep the concentration up 24/7. I'm know I'm supposed to think this, and have a driving plan, I'm just not sure it's physically possible.
If you picture a dirty great truck just out of sight, straddling the centre line, then preparing for that should prepare you for just about anything else.
And, yes, keeping up the concentration is the hardest part. That's where commentary comes in - if you think you're slipping, turn the radio off and give yourself 10 minutes of commentary. Works wonders.
Interesting thread,
When passing a cyclist who rarely do more than 10mph up a hill!! I'd be on the white lines or over them, its allowed according the HWC. Making way by pushinmg the opposing traffic over a bit as I'd put it (having been a cyclist this is a good thing) As a lot of drivers from the opposing side generally don't notice a cylist and remain firmly in their lane unless assisted !
However you were on a bend and that opposing traffic might well be over the white line already
so....
I think possibly you might reconsider your speed thats more appropriate, or being more in the centre so you see the opposing traffic earlier & they also see you more importantly.
Quick tip:
When approaching a cylist & passing, remain in the centre offside of the road for longer once passed, these helps oncoming traffic realise your there for a reason (the cyclist) following traffic has an easier & safer time passing & the cyclist will be grateful.
The WORST scenerio as a cyclist is to have someone stuck right on your ass who then squeezes past with minimal room. Make way & keep it for as long as you can.
When passing a cyclist who rarely do more than 10mph up a hill!! I'd be on the white lines or over them, its allowed according the HWC. Making way by pushinmg the opposing traffic over a bit as I'd put it (having been a cyclist this is a good thing) As a lot of drivers from the opposing side generally don't notice a cylist and remain firmly in their lane unless assisted !
However you were on a bend and that opposing traffic might well be over the white line already
so....
I think possibly you might reconsider your speed thats more appropriate, or being more in the centre so you see the opposing traffic earlier & they also see you more importantly.
Quick tip:
When approaching a cylist & passing, remain in the centre offside of the road for longer once passed, these helps oncoming traffic realise your there for a reason (the cyclist) following traffic has an easier & safer time passing & the cyclist will be grateful.
The WORST scenerio as a cyclist is to have someone stuck right on your ass who then squeezes past with minimal room. Make way & keep it for as long as you can.
Major Bloodnok said:
And, yes, keeping up the concentration is the hardest part. That's where commentary comes in - if you think you're slipping, turn the radio off and give yourself 10 minutes of commentary. Works wonders.
Couldn't agree more with this - I occasionaly find my concentration is less than it should be, and when it happens pretending that I'm giving a demo drive to an associate works wonders.
John
>> Edited by goliath on Thursday 11th May 20:22
goliath said:
And, yes, keeping up the concentration is the hardest part. That's where commentary comes in - if you think you're slipping, turn the radio off and give yourself 10 minutes of commentary. Works wonders.
Couldn't agree more with this - I occasionaly find my concentration is less than it should be, and when it happens pretending that I'm giving a demo drive to an associate works wonders.
John
>> Edited by goliath on Thursday 11th May 20:22
It's quite interesting, as I appear to be one of the few Associates that actually ENJOYS giving a commentary. If the examiner failed to ask me to give a commentary, I would be disapointed.
My problem is a bit more simpler than that. When I am driving I:
1) always see all the signs.
2) have great observaton.
3) get a very clear driving plan.
4) have excellent anticipation.
5) consider and use all parts of the System correctly.
6) use poistining and speed extremely well.
Trouble is, its 1) OR 2) OR 3) OR 4) OR 5). How on earth do I get to the stage where I can do 1) AND 2) AND 3) etc.
This advanced driving is damn hard. I really enjoy it, but sometimes find it so difficult 'as a whole' that I wonder how you ever get polished and accomplished enough to pass the test.
Regards
Sally
Lady G,
Quick question. Maybe the local geography means this was impossible, but was there any chance that at the bottom of the hill lifting your vision to the 'horizon' you could have seen the cyclist getting to the top of the hill and about to round the corner?
"Cyclist top of hill, local knowledge possibility cyclist on bend at top, therefore will peg speed back more than normal, thus keeping control and command and allowing extra time bla bla bla"
or shorthand words to that effect of course.
If I'm way off beam you can tell me to horlicks off.
FiF
Quick question. Maybe the local geography means this was impossible, but was there any chance that at the bottom of the hill lifting your vision to the 'horizon' you could have seen the cyclist getting to the top of the hill and about to round the corner?
"Cyclist top of hill, local knowledge possibility cyclist on bend at top, therefore will peg speed back more than normal, thus keeping control and command and allowing extra time bla bla bla"
or shorthand words to that effect of course.
If I'm way off beam you can tell me to horlicks off.
FiF
Flat in Fifth said:
Lady G,
Quick question. Maybe the local geography means this was impossible, but was there any chance that at the bottom of the hill lifting your vision to the 'horizon' you could have seen the cyclist getting to the top of the hill and about to round the corner?
"Cyclist top of hill, local knowledge possibility cyclist on bend at top, therefore will peg speed back more than normal, thus keeping control and command and allowing extra time bla bla bla"
or shorthand words to that effect of course.
If I'm way off beam you can tell me to horlicks off.
FiF
Damn. I was hoping no one would spot that. Thanks you for pointing out my failings.......there are quite a few of them!!!
I've had a look, and it's possible I should have seen him, although the topography means it could be missed.
If I'm being totally honest, I think the problem is as follows. As it's a steep hill around a bend, I should go at a speed that is JUST struggling at 3rd gear because of the low revolutions. I should really be in 2nd. But to get to the bend, it is so far up the hill that I would have got into third. Then after the bend the road is okay in third at 30mph, good visibility, etc.
So I think that after entering the hill by turning left from a junction at the bottom I'm avoiding going 1st, 2nd, 3rd, at bend down to 2nd, after bend back up to 3rd. Neither do I want to stty in 2nd all the way up to the bend. So I'm trying to stick in a gear that may not be suitable, resulting in me having to keep the speed up just a fraction higher than it should be.
I'm not sure about the above, but I think its certainly part of the problem. I'm going to try it and see what I think.
I will let you know what i find, in the meantime comments are appreciated as always.
Regards
Sally
On a slight aside, one of those little phrases which I heard the other day during commentary and which stuck:-
"There's a cyclist, where's the other?"
The implication being that you often cope well with the first flash of a cyclist that you see, but they are pack animals who herd together by instinct, and it is a real clue that there is another lurking somewhere once you see one.
"There's a cyclist, where's the other?"
The implication being that you often cope well with the first flash of a cyclist that you see, but they are pack animals who herd together by instinct, and it is a real clue that there is another lurking somewhere once you see one.
7db said:
On a slight aside, one of those little phrases which I heard the other day during commentary and which stuck:-
"There's a cyclist, where's the other?"
The implication being that you often cope well with the first flash of a cyclist that you see, but they are pack animals who herd together by instinct, and it is a real clue that there is another lurking somewhere once you see one.
Especially true if the cyclist is a kid. Or even a kid not on bike...
cptsideways said:
When passing a cyclist who rarely do more than 10mph up a hill!!
hehe, give over! I never drop below 10mph!
Anyhow, as a cyclist myself I can tell you a couple of things we like:
1) Space
Give us loads of space. If the carriageway is 100 feet wide, then let there be 90 feet of space between you and I
2) Speed
The closer you pass us, the slower you should be. If you can't get by without leaving less than about 5 feet of space, then hang back until you can.
3) Warnings
Don't beep your horn. Don't rev your engine. Don't do anything except 1 & 2. Horns frighten us.
Anyhow it sounds to me as though you did everything right. After all, you saw the cyclist in time, you slowed and gave enough room, job done.
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